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 Topic: Mohammad, the Pedophile

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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #480 - January 03, 2010, 08:10 PM

    This is what Ziauddin Sardar, a respected Islamic intellectual, has to say on the matter (bolding by me):
    "Then followed his marriage to Aisha, which is seen as the most contentious. Aisha, daughter of his closest friend Abu Bakr, was only six. But the marriage was not consumated, and the Prophet lived separately from her, until she came of age, many years later after the hijra. And Aisha, one of the most articulate and open-minded women of early Islamic history, was more than happy with the union.

    I hope this explains everything.

    *excerpt from What Do Muslims Believe, Granta Books, London, 2006
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #481 - January 03, 2010, 08:21 PM

    How does Ziauddin Sardar know that?
    What I mean is, what are his sources?

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #482 - January 03, 2010, 08:41 PM

    This is what Ziauddin Sardar, a respected Islamic intellectual, has to say on the matter (bolding by me):
    "Then followed his marriage to Aisha, which is seen as the most contentious. Aisha, daughter of his closest friend Abu Bakr, was only six. But the marriage was not consumated, and the Prophet lived separately from her, until she came of age, many years later after the hijra. And Aisha, one of the most articulate and open-minded women of early Islamic history, was more than happy with the union.

    I hope this explains everything.



    That doesn't explain shit!

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #483 - January 03, 2010, 08:57 PM

    That doesn't explain shit!

     Afro

    And that is my point precisely!
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #484 - January 03, 2010, 10:38 PM

    How does Ziauddin Sardar know that?
    What I mean is, what are his sources?



    Kenan was being ironic. He and I had a discussion about Ziauddin Sardar here:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7640.0

    Kenan's quote really shows how craven and what a lame apologist Sardar is, it is actually almost comical how he skates over this issue, projecting himself into the mind of a six year old child from 1400 years ago, to justify what is a moral abomination by the seal of the prophets and most perfect man ever. Its emblematic of how 'progressive' Muslims deal with the issue and is utterly laughable. They are terrified, because they know this is one of Islam's achilles heels, around which the whole foundations of Islam collapse when the truth is known.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #485 - January 04, 2010, 12:21 AM

    Kenan was being ironic. He and I had a discussion about Ziauddin Sardar here:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7640.0

    Kenan's quote really shows how craven and what a lame apologist Sardar is, it is actually almost comical how he skates over this issue, projecting himself into the mind of a six year old child from 1400 years ago, to justify what is a moral abomination by the seal of the prophets and most perfect man ever. Its emblematic of how 'progressive' Muslims deal with the issue and is utterly laughable. They are terrified, because they know this is one of Islam's achilles heels, around which the whole foundations of Islam collapse when the truth is known.


    Unfortunately for progressives, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place; if they start questioning these hadiths they're going be expected to provide proof by traditionalist scholars, if they reject in and ignore the traditionalists then the question will be asked what methodology they used - because it didn't feel right? then there is the question as to the reliability - does one just pick and choose? accept the whole lot? reject the whole lot like the Qur'an only people do? If one strips so much hadiths and sunnah away, do you end up with a character of Muhammad whom there is so little known about that the whole stupidity of 'sunnah eating' and 'sunnah living' needs to be thrown out?

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #486 - January 04, 2010, 12:52 AM

    I know, I was just laughing along with it.


    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #487 - January 04, 2010, 01:45 AM

    If one strips so much hadiths and sunnah away, do you end up with a character of Muhammad whom there is so little known about that the whole stupidity of 'sunnah eating' and 'sunnah living' needs to be thrown out?

    You forgot to include the method of prayer!

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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #488 - January 04, 2010, 03:10 AM

    You forgot to include the method of prayer!


    True, which as I've said in the past reminds me of the 'birdy dance' done in slow motion.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #489 - January 05, 2010, 03:50 PM

    This is what Ziauddin Sardar, a respected Islamic intellectual, has to say on the matter (bolding by me):
    "Then followed his marriage to Aisha, which is seen as the most contentious. Aisha, daughter of his closest friend Abu Bakr, was only six. But the marriage was not consumated, and the Prophet lived separately from her, until she came of age, many years later after the hijra. And Aisha, one of the most articulate and open-minded women of early Islamic history, was more than happy with the union.

    I hope this explains everything.

    *excerpt from What Do Muslims Believe, Granta Books, London, 2006



    The following quote from Tabari explains why Muhhamad didnt consumate his marriage with Aisha

    Quote
    The Prophet left us and his daughters behind when he emigrated to Medina. Having arrived at Medina, he sent Zayd b. Harithah and his client Abu Rafi? for us. He gave them two camels and 500 dirhams he had taken from Abu Bakr to buy [other] beasts they needed. Abu Bakr sent with them ?Abdallah b. Urayqit al-Dili, with two or three camels. He wrote to [his son] ?Abdallah b. Abi Bakr to take his wife Umm Ruman, together with me and my sister Asma?, al-Zubayr?s wife, [and leave for Medina]. They all left [Medina] together, and when they arrived at Qudayd Zayd b. Harithah bought three camels with those 500 dirhams. All of them then entered Mecca, where they met Talhah b. ?Ubaydallah on his way to leave town, together with Abu Bakr?s family. So we all left: Zayd b. Harithah, Abu Rafi?, Fatimah, Umm Kulthum, and Sawdah bt. Zam?ah. Ayd mounted Umm Ayman and [his son] Usamah b. Zayd on a riding beast; ?Abdallah b. Abi Bakr took Umm Ruman and his two sisters, and Talhah b. ?Ubaydallah came [too]. We all went together, and when we reached Bayd in Tamanni my camel broke loose. I was sitting in the litter together with my mother, and she started exclaiming "Alas, my daughter, alas [you] bride"; then they caught up with our camel, after it had safely descended the Lift. We then arrived at Medina, and I stayed with Abu Bakr?s children, and [Abu Bakr] went to the Prophet. The latter was then busy building the mosque and our homes around it, where he [later] housed his wives. We stayed in Abu Bakr?s house for a few days; then Abu Bakr asked [the Prophet] "O Messenger of God, what prevents you from consummating the marriage with your wife?" The Prophet said "The bridal gift (sadaq)." Abu Bakr gave him the bridal gift, twelve and a half ounces [of gold], and the Prophet sent for us. He consummated our marriage in my house, the one where I live now and where he passed away. (The History of Al-Tabari: Biographies of the Prophet?s Companions and Their Successors, translated by Ella Landau-Tasseron [State University of New York Press, Albany 1998], Volume XXXIX, pp. 171-173)



    So Abu Bakr's inability to give him bridal gift was preventing Muhhamad from consumating his marriage with Aisha and not because Muhhamad wanted her to reach puberty! This is the typical lie that muslims love to tell but the quote from Tabari makes it clear that its not so. The other argument is  9 is still young and not the right age.IF he really wanted her to reach adulthood he should have not consummated the marriage when she was 9 .HE could have waited for some  more years to go by.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #490 - January 05, 2010, 03:58 PM


    Wow - thanks for that, skynightblaze. Like I said before, just when you think it can't get any worse, it does.

    And Ziauddin Sardar is even more craven - his apologetics and lies are loathsome.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #491 - January 05, 2010, 04:23 PM

    @billy

    There is no good  argument explaining this act of Muhhamad. No matter how intelligent your opponent is he is bound to lose because truth is not on his side . I can give this in writing.I would like to see this guy's arguments . This is my favourite topic as I have answer to every single argument from the muslim side. Anyway no need of thanks. I support anyone who is against islam and I am ready for give and take policy when it comes to defeating islam.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #492 - January 24, 2010, 11:26 AM

    It gets even worse.

    A non-muslim friend told me that he had an argument with a muslim about Aisha. And the muslim dude said he did not fuck her but he rubbed his genitalia against her thigh (as if that makes it better). We know about Khomeni's fatwa, but I know he can't base any fatwa unless it's based on the Quran, Hadith, Sira etc. So I goggled thighing and found this:


    Quote
    Praise be to Allah and peace be upon the one after whom there is no [further] prophet.

    After the permanent committee for the scientific research and fatwahs (religious decrees) reviewed the question presented to the grand Mufti Abu Abdullah Muhammad Al-Shemary, the question forwarded to the committee by the grand scholar of the committee with reference number 1809 issued on 3/8/1421 (Islamic calendar). The inquirer asked the following:

    It has become wide spread these days, and especially during weddings, the habit of mufa?khathat of the children (mufa?khathat literally translated means "placing between the thighs" which means placing the male member between the thighs of a child). What is the opinion of scholars knowing full well that the prophet, the peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, also practiced the "thighing" of Aisha - the mother of believers - may Allah be please with her.

    After the committee studied the issue, they gave the following reply:
    It has not been the practice of the Muslims throughout the centuries to resort to this unlawful practice that has come to our countries from pornographic movies that the kufar (infidels) and enemies of Islam send. As for the prophet, peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, thighing his fianc?e Aisha. She was six years of age and he could not have intercourse with her due to her small age. That is why [the prophet] peace and prayer of Allah be upon him placed his [male] member between ber thighs and massaged it softly, as the apostle of Allah had control of his [male] member not like other believers.[13][14]
    See Also [15] [16] [17] [18]

    http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Aisha



    I havn't read these but more in the subject:

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/women_fields.htm
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #493 - January 24, 2010, 11:48 AM

    Quote
    Fatwah 23672:
    The inquirer asks: "My parents married me to a young girl who hasn't yet reached puberty. How can I enjoy her sexually?"

    The imam answers her by saying: "Do not harm her if she cannot take intercourse but you may hug her, kiss her, and ejaculate between her legs" i.e. ?thigh? her, as the fatwah in question indicates.  (http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Istisharat/ShowFatwa.php?lang=A&Id=23672&Option=FatwaId&x=40&y=13)


    The disgusting action which the fatwah describes is allowed to all other Sunni Muslims as can be seen by the following 3 fatwahs found:

    http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Istisharat/ShowFatwa.php?lang=A&Id=23672&Option=FatwaId&x=48&y=16

    http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Istisharat/ShowFatwa.php?lang=A&Id=13190&Option=FatwaId&x=54&y=11

    http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Istisharat/ShowFatwa.php?lang=A&Id=3907&Option=FatwaId&x=46&y=11

    SOURCE
    http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/shamoun/Muhammad-Debate-Material.html


    Translation:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Istisharat/ShowFatwa.php%3Flang%3DA%26Id%3D23672%26Option%3DFatwaId%26x%3D40%26y%3D13&ei=ZDNcS_PDINDZ-QbbnuwJ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Istisharat/ShowFatwa.php%253Flang%253DA%2526Id%253D23672%2526Option%253DFatwaId%2526x%253D40%2526y%253D13%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DpT1%26sa%3DG
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #494 - January 24, 2010, 12:53 PM

    And the muslim dude said he did not fuck her but he rubbed his genitalia against her thigh (as if that makes it better). We know about Khomeni's fatwa, but I know he can't base any fatwa unless it's based on the Quran, Hadith, Sira etc.

     Cheesy who said romance was dead?

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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #495 - January 24, 2010, 03:29 PM



    Oh it just gets better and better!

    The Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam, insaan al-kamil, greatest man of eternity, highest man of perfection to whom all must bow and aspire to emulate, masturbated by rubbing his genitals against the thigh of a 9 year old girl when he was in his fifties.

    Greatest man who ever lived, truly, Islam is the best.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #496 - January 24, 2010, 03:37 PM

    No dude, he rubbed his penis before she was 9. He fucked her when she was 9. He rubbed her because he could be intimate, she had not yet had her courses, so he couldn't fuck her. I mean she was his wife at 6, it was his right to be intimate with her. That's how I translate it at least. I hope I am wrong, but I would be surprised cause that would make Khomeni a kafir, the Kafir Ayatollah of an Islamic Regime, yeah right. I think she could never have kids because he destroyed her reproductive organs. But I might be wrong, maybe during the 8 years that he fucked her, she never got impregnated. Which is amazing, since Maria the copt did give birth to his son, but he died. 

    All the hadiths are gone from the Internet, they are somewhere out there in published in arabic though. 
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #497 - January 24, 2010, 03:43 PM

    Quote
    No dude, he rubbed his penis before she was 9. He fucked her when she was 9


    Ah, like I say - Mo is the gift that keeps on giving! It just gets better and better every time.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #498 - January 24, 2010, 03:44 PM

    Exactly Cheesy, I knew you would "like" my post.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #499 - January 24, 2010, 03:47 PM

    All the hadiths are gone from the Internet, they are somewhere out there in published in arabic though.  


    Interesting that they have gone from the internet. I wonder why.

    People should make it their mission to put them back on the internet, including pictures of the source books in Arabic and the actual pages of the written hadiths.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #500 - January 24, 2010, 03:50 PM

    Interesting that they have gone from the internet. I wonder why.

    People should make it their mission to put them back on the internet, including pictures of the source books in Arabic and the actual pages of the written hadiths.




    *cough* Hassan *cough*
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #501 - January 25, 2010, 09:01 PM

    No dude, he rubbed his penis before she was 9. He fucked her when she was 9. He rubbed her because he could be intimate, she had not yet had her courses, so he couldn't fuck her. I mean she was his wife at 6, it was his right to be intimate with her. That's how I translate it at least. I hope I am wrong, but I would be surprised cause that would make Khomeni a kafir, the Kafir Ayatollah of an Islamic Regime, yeah right. I think she could never have kids because he destroyed her reproductive organs. But I might be wrong, maybe during the 8 years that he fucked her, she never got impregnated. Which is amazing, since Maria the copt did give birth to his son, but he died. 


    You know, thats a horrid way to look at it.. But its probably true. Aisha never had children? I didn't know that.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #502 - January 25, 2010, 09:37 PM

    No dude, he rubbed his penis before she was 9. He fucked her when she was 9. He rubbed her because he could be intimate, she had not yet had her courses, so he couldn't fuck her. I mean she was his wife at 6, it was his right to be intimate with her. That's how I translate it at least. I hope I am wrong, but I would be surprised cause that would make Khomeni a kafir, the Kafir Ayatollah of an Islamic Regime, yeah right. I think she could never have kids because he destroyed her reproductive organs. But I might be wrong, maybe during the 8 years that he fucked her, she never got impregnated. Which is amazing, since Maria the copt did give birth to his son, but he died. 

    All the hadiths are gone from the Internet, they are somewhere out there in published in arabic though. 

    It is believed that sa Muhammad got older he became impotent. All the women and no babies except for Maria. As for Maria, he did not want to pick his son and did not like him and we have a story with Ali being ordered to kill the man rumored to have fathered the kid. The man was bathing in the water, as Ali approached him, the man jumped out of the water and showed to Ali that he was a euneuch. A silly story but indicates in the core that even that kid is probably not muhammed's.





    http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/umar_mary5.htm


    The Messenger of God also had a eunuch called Mabur, who was presented to him by al-Muqawqis WITH TWO SLAVE GIRLS, ONE OF THEM WAS CALLED MARIYAH, WHOM HE TOOK AS A CONCUBINE, and the other [was called] Sirin, whom he gave to Hassan b. Thabit after Safwan b. al-Mu?attal had committed an offense against him. Sirin gave birth to a son called ?Abd al-Rahman b. Hassan. Al-Muqawqis had sent this eunuch with the two slave girls in order to escort them and guard them on their way [to Medina]. He presented them to the Messenger of God when they arrived. It is said that he was the one [with whom] Mariyah was accused of [wrongdoing], and that the Messenger of God sent ?Ali to kill him. When he saw ?Ali and what he intended to do with him, he uncovered himself until it became evident to ?Ali that he was completely castrated, not having anything left at all of what men [normally] have, so [Ali] refrained from killing him. (Ibid., p. 147; capital emphasis ours)

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #503 - January 25, 2010, 10:03 PM

    Does this madness ever end? Jesus Christ.
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #504 - January 25, 2010, 10:41 PM

    It beggars belief how a man obessesed with murder can be the 2nd most respected person to have ever lived.

    Also before getting it so badly wrong and almost murdering an innocent man, why didnt the prophet ask for a revelation from God/ or god give him one

    Or did these revelations only come for matters like marrying more than 4 wives, or allowing his to bone his son's wife?

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  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #505 - January 25, 2010, 11:14 PM

    It beggars belief how a man obessesed with murder can be the 2nd most respected person to have ever lived.


    Muslims are simply ignorant about the true nature of Muhammad. I once told my mom that the Prophet married a 9 year old girl and she looked at me sternly and told me to stop making up evil lies about the nabi. My dad refused to believe it too, saying I had been reading too much anti-muslim propaganda.

    I'm sure if a poll was done a very tiny minority of Muslims would show any knowledge about the details of Mo's life and I bet most would deny it if told that Mo fucked a 9 year old girl.

    Muslims are good people, they would never believe in this scoundrel if they accepted the truth about him.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #506 - January 26, 2010, 12:36 AM

    Quote
    Muslims are simply ignorant about the true nature of Muhammad. I once told my mom that the Prophet married a 9 year old girl and she looked at me sternly and told me to stop making up evil lies about the nabi. My dad refused to believe it too, saying I had been reading too much anti-muslim propaganda.

    I'm sure if a poll was done a very tiny minority of Muslims would show any knowledge about the details of Mo's life and I bet most would deny it if told that Mo fucked a 9 year old girl.


    Surprisingly, most muslims I have come across don't find anything wrong with mohammad marrying a 9 year old because it was "back in the day when it was a norm" or "she wasn't forced or abused orelse she wouldn't have become such a great scholar", or "age doesn't make a difference, it's a the mental maturity".
    Quote
    Muslims are good people, they would never believe in this scoundrel if they accepted the truth about him.


    See the problem is that the religion defines good or bad, not your own logical reasoning. If you are brainwashed into thinking Islam is the ONLY true religion and that you will go to Hell forever for questioning or doubting it, then you have to accept everything. Most muslim women are not comfortable with the idea of polygamy but they keep defending it by totally ridiculous reasons. Most muslims will agree that apostates in an Islamic state should be put to death and they will defend that too. They will defend whatever is in Isam because they are just brainwashed to the extreme where ethics, morality, judgment of good/bad all comes from Islam and nothing else.

    If you're so devout, how come I am not dead?
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #507 - January 26, 2010, 01:02 AM

    @ tara

    Quote
    Surprisingly, most muslims I have come across don't find anything wrong with mohammad marrying a 9 year old because it was "back in the day when it was a norm" or "she wasn't forced or abused orelse she wouldn't have become such a great scholar", or "age doesn't make a difference, it's a the mental maturity".

     

    You can always hit them with verse 4:6.

    As for polygamy, it's disrespectful for women, but guess what, some women have low self esteem... some even don't mind becoming a married man's mistress.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #508 - January 26, 2010, 01:28 AM

    Quote
    tar
    You can always hit them with verse 4:6.


    Sorry debunker, I don't remember the verse.

    Quote
    As for polygamy, it's disrespectful for women, but guess what, some women have low self esteem... some even don't mind becoming a married man's mistress


    My point was that Muslim women defend polygamy and say "it can be useful sometimes" by giving loads of ridiculous reasons like women outnumbering men or men having higher sexual desire. SO if you are brainwashed into accepting a faith, then you will defend all the ridiculousness in it.
    I have been there myself . I used to defend polygamy too back when I was a muslim so I know how it's like to find reasons that make islam look more positive and acceptable.

    If you're so devout, how come I am not dead?
  • Re: Mohammad, the Pedophile
     Reply #509 - January 26, 2010, 01:33 AM

    Quote
    but guess what, some women have low self esteem... some even don't mind becoming a married man's mistress.

     

    Some men don't mind becoming a married woman's gigolo - doesn't mean polyandry isn't stupid.

    Women who have low self esteem can have an affair and extricate themselves from it without societal, cultural, legal or religious impediment. The misogynistic prison cell of polygamy is incarceration and misery eternal.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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