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Theme Changer

 Topic: "Islamofascism"?

 (Read 8243 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • "Islamofascism"?
     OP - March 20, 2009, 01:21 AM

    Can anyone actually demonstrate this exists (besides perhaps the Ba'athist Party), apart from general comparisons of authoritarian/totalitarian ideologies and political structures? Specifically, is there a major Islamist movement that incorporates 1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth) 2. corporativism/corporatism (binding together of economic/social classes into the state) and 3. the supreme power of the state? In other words is there really a 21st century Muslim equivalent to 20th century Clerical Fascism?

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #1 - March 20, 2009, 09:26 AM

    Can anyone actually demonstrate this exists (besides perhaps the Ba'athist Party), apart from general comparisons of authoritarian/totalitarian ideologies and political structures? Specifically, is there a major Islamist movement that incorporates 1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth) 2. corporativism/corporatism (binding together of economic/social classes into the state) and 3. the supreme power of the state? In other words is there really a 21st century Muslim equivalent to 20th century Clerical Fascism?

    Wahabis, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban.

    Going back to the strictly literalist definition of "fascism" only obfuscates the issue more. Islam the religion is tyrannical, Islam the ideology is even worse. Yes, corporatism is absent from most modern Islamic societies and yes, some brands of Islamic theocracy resemble feudalism more than the literal definition of fascism, i.e. the Taliban.

    You remind me the Turkish nationalists who dispute the historical veracity of the Armenian Holocaust because "the events that happened did not fit the exact definition of genocide."

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #2 - March 20, 2009, 09:46 AM

    Wahabis, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban.


    Did you purposefully miss out Hamas & Saudi Arabia?

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #3 - March 20, 2009, 09:50 AM

    Wahabis, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban.


    Did you purposefully miss out Hamas & Saudi Arabia?

    No, I was just picking up a handful of candidates. Hamas and Hezbollah are also quite Islamofascist. Though Wahabis = Saudi Arabia I think?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #4 - March 20, 2009, 10:39 AM

    I thought Wahabis were a sect of Islam, like Deobandis or is it a description of Saudi socio/political culture too?

    In fact I dont like calling them Wahabis anyway, they are just followers of Islam (the true & literal version)

    To add to the list there is also Nation of Islam.

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  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #5 - March 20, 2009, 01:27 PM

    Can anyone actually demonstrate this exists (besides perhaps the Ba'athist Party), apart from general comparisons of authoritarian/totalitarian ideologies and political structures? Specifically, is there a major Islamist movement that incorporates 1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth) 2. corporativism/corporatism (binding together of economic/social classes into the state) and 3. the supreme power of the state? In other words is there really a 21st century Muslim equivalent to 20th century Clerical Fascism?

    Wahabis, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban.

    Going back to the strictly literalist definition of "fascism" only obfuscates the issue more. Islam the religion is tyrannical, Islam the ideology is even worse. Yes, corporatism is absent from most modern Islamic societies and yes, some brands of Islamic theocracy resemble feudalism more than the literal definition of fascism, i.e. the Taliban.

    You remind me the Turkish nationalists who dispute the historical veracity of the Armenian Holocaust because "the events that happened did not fit the exact definition of genocide."


    Well, yes, I'm a fan of literal definitions. I'm against redefining words or expanding their definitions to elicit an emotional response or serve a political/ideological agenda. Unfortunately, when we're talking about words like "Fascism" or "Marxism", this happens all the time. The organizations you mentioned, to my knowledge, are totalitarian, but not fascist.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #6 - March 20, 2009, 03:26 PM


    Well, yes, I'm a fan of literal definitions. I'm against redefining words or expanding their definitions to elicit an emotional response or serve a political/ideological agenda. Unfortunately, when we're talking about words like "Fascism" or "Marxism", this happens all the time. The organizations you mentioned, to my knowledge, are totalitarian, but not fascist.


    Well in that case, how does the Taleban not fit the literal description of fascism below?

    [/quote]fas?cism (fshzm)
    n.
    1. often Fascism
    a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
    b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
    2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #7 - March 20, 2009, 04:26 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth)


    Islamist movements do almost invariably practise this, but the Islamist variant is not centred round any nation state, but around the rebirth of the Ummah and the restoration of the Caliphate.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #8 - March 20, 2009, 04:30 PM

    The Baathists aren't IslamoFascist either, they couldn't give a toss about Jihad, heaven or hell.

    They are just Fascist.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #9 - March 20, 2009, 04:31 PM

    Well, yes, I'm a fan of literal definitions. I'm against redefining words or expanding their definitions to elicit an emotional response or serve a political/ideological agenda. Unfortunately, when we're talking about words like "Fascism" or "Marxism", this happens all the time. The organizations you mentioned, to my knowledge, are totalitarian, but not fascist.


    I wonder whether you are guilty of doing the same thing, and equating your definition of Faschism to Nazism?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #10 - March 20, 2009, 04:58 PM

    Can anyone actually demonstrate this exists (besides perhaps the Ba'athist Party), apart from general comparisons of authoritarian/totalitarian ideologies and political structures? Specifically, is there a major Islamist movement that incorporates 1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth) 2. corporativism/corporatism (binding together of economic/social classes into the state) and 3. the supreme power of the state? In other words is there really a 21st century Muslim equivalent to 20th century Clerical Fascism?

    I think you just pinned it. Clerical Fascism. Normal fascism is a form of corporatism gone awry. Mussolini assigned a bunch of industry leader and put them higher then elected officials.

    So it did not matter who you vote for, ultimately, those you vote for will be under the auspice of an industry leader in Mussoloini's fascist state.

    Clerical fascism or theocratic fascism, will be, when you have a cleric on top of whoever you elect. Or like in iran, those you elect are put in the highest authority, but you only get to elect from a pool of clerics. Instead of electing doctors or engineers or teachers or draft dodging ex-wanna-be fighter pilots.

    A clerical fascist state can very easily switch to become a totalitarian clerical fascist state. Like in Iran & Saudi & Hamas.

                       Clerical Fascism === One Way Train ===>> Totalitarian Clerical Fascism

    Or alternatively, a totalitarian despotic state can be threatened by clerical fascism:

                      Totalitarian Despotism === threat ===>> Clerical Fascism

    Like in egypt, ex-iraq, algeria, morrocco, and most of the middle east in general. what happened in most of those countries it that, the leaders were very good at silencing all opposition, except the opposition in the mosques. So the only form of opposition that grew, grew inside mosques.

    Stupid Despots doing what despots do. Of course a romantic view could be that the clerical fascism is justified, and that it is a change from the stagnating despotism. But it does not have to be this way. Clerical fascism does not not have to be a stepping stone away from despotism. Those despots are at the doorsteps of change anyways, so why accept clerical fascism as the only possible change for them? Why does a step away from despotism, has to be a step down.





    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #11 - March 20, 2009, 05:03 PM

    The Baathists aren't IslamoFascist either, they couldn't give a toss about Jihad, heaven or hell.

    They are just Fascist.

    Baath doctrine was invented by a Christian arab. He saw what islam was, and devised a way to live with islam without handing over the state to mullahs. I, and now i find an increasing number of analyst, regret the take-down the baath party. A more sensible solution was to hang saddam, and keep the army and party. Even if it took changing the party name, what was still acceptable.

    Point in case, a majority of the iraqi army guys that were retired, are now asked to come back. and a lot of politicians as well.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #12 - March 20, 2009, 05:04 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    Well, yes, I'm a fan of literal definitions. I'm against redefining words or expanding their definitions to elicit an emotional response or serve a political/ideological agenda. Unfortunately, when we're talking about words like "Fascism" or "Marxism", this happens all the time. The organizations you mentioned, to my knowledge, are totalitarian, but not fascist.

    Whatever.  Roll Eyes

    They are all oppressive, reactionary, and violent organisations who have no right whatsoever to exist, and who must be overthrown completely before an open society can form in the lands they brutally occupy.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #13 - March 20, 2009, 05:10 PM

    The Baathists aren't IslamoFascist either, they couldn't give a toss about Jihad, heaven or hell.

    They are just Fascist.

    Baath doctrine was invented by a Christian arab. He saw what islam was, and devised a way to live with islam without handing over the state to mullahs. I, and now i find an increasing number of analyst, regret the take-down the baath party. A more sensible solution was to hang saddam, and keep the army and party. Even if it took changing the party name, what was still acceptable.

    Point in case, a majority of the iraqi army guys that were retired, are now asked to come back. and a lot of politicians as well.



    Why would you want it back? The ideology is filthy and a brutal American takeover is favourable than even one more year than that disgusting type of thinking. It is deeply saddening that these animals are still allowed to reign in Syria and that the Iraqi generals are returning to their positions.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #14 - March 20, 2009, 05:15 PM

    Quote from: FinallyFree
    Why would you want it back? The ideology is filthy and a brutal American takeover is favourable than even one more year than that disgusting type of thinking. It is deeply saddening that these animals are still allowed to reign in Syria and that the Iraqi generals are returning to their positions.

    Just how filthy? "The animals that are allowed to reign in Syria" do a surprisingly good job at suppressing Islamic fundamentalists, do they not?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #15 - March 20, 2009, 05:18 PM

    Quote from: FinallyFree
    Why would you want it back? The ideology is filthy and a brutal American takeover is favourable than even one more year than that disgusting type of thinking. It is deeply saddening that these animals are still allowed to reign in Syria and that the Iraqi generals are returning to their positions.

    Just how filthy? "The animals that are allowed to reign in Syria" do a surprisingly good job at suppressing Islamic fundamentalists, do they not?


    At the cost of free-thought, free-speech and human rights. One evil is no better than the other, while I hate the fundamentalist bastards, the self-serving corrupt bastards are no better. The best people to lead the country would be the Pro-Western, liberal group run by the former Vice-President Khaddam and his opposition group. I hope for the day that there is a revolution in their favour, it would forever change the country and the region.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #16 - March 20, 2009, 06:06 PM

    Sorry Zaephon, I was just mulling things over and I should have been clearer in my post.

    I had the displeasure of visiting Syria in the past, I know people from Syria also and let me tell you the situation is dire. I can understand where you're coming from, to a person in Turkey, the restrictions they've had in the past have come from religious interferance (I may be misinformed..) when this was removed, the country prospered and the people lived better lives. While Syria appears to be a "secular" country (probably because it's not as bad as Saudi Arabia) the secularism exists only by way of the fact that you can buy alcohol, porn and you don't need to wear hijab. And that Bashar and Asma flout just about every Islamic rule there is. That's it.

    The society is still religious by and large, the people are superstitious even when they are not so personally religious and the Mosque is the centre of society and all communities.

    But religion is not the problem they face.

    The government is a corrupt, self serving faceless group of "old boys" (the sons and grandsons of the rich and favoured)  and the elite are set above everyone else. There is no freedom. Talking about politics in public will get you arrested, as will talking about religion and distinguishing between differant sects, such acts are believed to be a disturbance of peace. I met someone there, a broken man who I talked to. He and his brothers used to attend a mosque close-by and they were close to the Imam, unfortunately for them the Imaam was a Muslim Brotherhood sympathiser. One day the secret police (their official name is intelligence) shows up to talk to these brothers and take them in for questioning. 15 years later they leave a secret prison with mental and physical wounds that will never heal. Were they tried? No. Were they read any rights? They didn't have any rights. They were kept in a 9 by 6 ft cell and were fed once a day if they were lucky. They were also questioned once a day, but it wasn't quite a questioning rather a severe beating with electric cables and metal rods, salt was rubbed into their wounds.

    If you want a good comparison read the story of Maher Arar (google is your friend), he was sent to Syria by the American government as a suspect of terrorism, he was kept in a similar cell probably in the same prison but for a few months. He was awarded 10 million dollars compensation for his few months. These brothers live in their cold, grey apartment and try to live each day without committing suicide. They no longer go out, they no longer speak to anyone, they only spoke to me because I was staying with their neighbours and I asked them a few questions incessantly. 

    They never were part of an Islamic brotherhood, they were only arrested because some idiot agent suspected them and the Imaam had done a runner by the time the secret police came knocking. That agent needed someone to arrest to get his 100 lira weekly bonus (that's the equivalent of a pound or a YTL). For that, they spent 15 years being tortured and questioned about a group they didn't know existed.

    Of course this isn't the work of some rogue generals, this is government sanctioned, this happens to any enemy of the state. Recently a blogger who was calling for reform was arrested and taken to a similar place. Anyone who questions the government is treated terribly.

    The government may repress the Islamic brotherhood, but at what cost?

    Also, the secularism ends with bashar and his wife, the Syrian penal law is half French civil law, half Islamic Sharia, it isn't just issues such as family law, a person who kills a female decendent or ascendent for immoral acts without premeditation is not to be held for his actions (source? Syrian law).

    That's why I call Baathism fascism, and that's why I call these people monsters.

    Sorry to have sounded rude before, but this is an issue I will never forget.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #17 - March 20, 2009, 08:38 PM

    The Baathists aren't IslamoFascist either, they couldn't give a toss about Jihad, heaven or hell.

    They are just Fascist.


    Correct. I misspoke.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #18 - March 20, 2009, 08:44 PM


    Well, yes, I'm a fan of literal definitions. I'm against redefining words or expanding their definitions to elicit an emotional response or serve a political/ideological agenda. Unfortunately, when we're talking about words like "Fascism" or "Marxism", this happens all the time. The organizations you mentioned, to my knowledge, are totalitarian, but not fascist.


    Well in that case, how does the Taleban not fit the literal description of fascism below?

    Quote
    fas?cism (fshzm)
    n.
    1. often Fascism
    a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
    b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
    2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    1. A dictionary definition of an ideology is sure to be lacking in all the components which define said ideology. The scholarly consensus on the term "Fascism" is similar to the definition above, but a bit more detailed.

    2. Even using (a) of the above definition, Islamism lacks 1) stringent socioeconomic controls beyond their interpretation of sharia, which was developed long before fascist corporatism, 2) nationalism, and 3) racism (though it surely has bigotry in spades, it does not adopt a racialist theory, but then again I'd dispute the fact that racism is a defining characteristic of fascism).

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #19 - March 20, 2009, 08:45 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth)


    Islamist movements do almost invariably practise this, but the Islamist variant is not centred round any nation state, but around the rebirth of the Ummah and the restoration of the Caliphate.


    The Caliphate was an empire pre-dating the development of the modern nation-state.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #20 - March 20, 2009, 08:49 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    Well, yes, I'm a fan of literal definitions. I'm against redefining words or expanding their definitions to elicit an emotional response or serve a political/ideological agenda. Unfortunately, when we're talking about words like "Fascism" or "Marxism", this happens all the time. The organizations you mentioned, to my knowledge, are totalitarian, but not fascist.

    Whatever.  Roll Eyes

    They are all oppressive, reactionary, and violent organisations who have no right whatsoever to exist, and who must be overthrown completely before an open society can form in the lands they brutally occupy.


    I take it, then, you are comfortable ignoring differences in ideology? If you really care about fighting Islamism, wouldn't it make more strategic sense to properly identify differences between Islamism and other totalitarian ideologies, rather than lumping them all together? After all, the reasons for the rise of both are different, the structures they create are different, thus methods for fighting them will likely be different.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #21 - March 20, 2009, 08:52 PM

    Quote from: FinallyFree
    Why would you want it back? The ideology is filthy and a brutal American takeover is favourable than even one more year than that disgusting type of thinking. It is deeply saddening that these animals are still allowed to reign in Syria and that the Iraqi generals are returning to their positions.

    Just how filthy? "The animals that are allowed to reign in Syria" do a surprisingly good job at suppressing Islamic fundamentalists, do they not?


    At the cost of free-thought, free-speech and human rights. One evil is no better than the other, while I hate the fundamentalist bastards, the self-serving corrupt bastards are no better. The best people to lead the country would be the Pro-Western, liberal group run by the former Vice-President Khaddam and his opposition group. I hope for the day that there is a revolution in their favour, it would forever change the country and the region.


    I disagree that one is no better than the other. First off, the status of women under Baathism might not be so great compared to the Western world, but it's a hell of a lot better than the chattel slavery the fundamentalists want. Second, it's much easier to reason with "self-serving corrupt bastards" than with religious zealots.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #22 - March 20, 2009, 08:56 PM

    Quote from: FinallyFree
    Why would you want it back? The ideology is filthy and a brutal American takeover is favourable than even one more year than that disgusting type of thinking. It is deeply saddening that these animals are still allowed to reign in Syria and that the Iraqi generals are returning to their positions.

    Just how filthy? "The animals that are allowed to reign in Syria" do a surprisingly good job at suppressing Islamic fundamentalists, do they not?


    At the cost of free-thought, free-speech and human rights. One evil is no better than the other, while I hate the fundamentalist bastards, the self-serving corrupt bastards are no better. The best people to lead the country would be the Pro-Western, liberal group run by the former Vice-President Khaddam and his opposition group. I hope for the day that there is a revolution in their favour, it would forever change the country and the region.

    But that suppresion of FoE is not a Baath problem. That is a problem of having a fragmented group of countries that was drawn with a pen 60yrs ago. When a minority has to rule over a majority and when people in the soup do not play well together. Not everyone had the same experienes the americans have. Not everyone lost 675K people in a civil war, that taught them how to work well together. Not everyone had a religion backbone that promotes larger empires. etc..


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #23 - March 20, 2009, 09:00 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth)


    Islamist movements do almost invariably practise this, but the Islamist variant is not centred round any nation state, but around the rebirth of the Ummah and the restoration of the Caliphate.


    The Caliphate was an empire pre-dating the development of the modern nation-state.


    I know it was.  The extreme nationalist sentiments that Islamists feel about the Ummah and their dreams of a new Caliphate are as likely to lend themselves to fascism as the modern nation  state version.  Look at Hizb-ut Tahrir, they even make common cause with neo-Nazis in Europe - birds of a feather an all that.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #24 - March 20, 2009, 09:13 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    1. extreme nationalism (specifically calls for national rebirth)


    Islamist movements do almost invariably practise this, but the Islamist variant is not centred round any nation state, but around the rebirth of the Ummah and the restoration of the Caliphate.


    The Caliphate was an empire pre-dating the development of the modern nation-state.


    I know it was.  The extreme nationalist sentiments that Islamists feel about the Ummah and their dreams of a new Caliphate are as likely to lend themselves to fascism as the modern nation  state version.  Look at Hizb-ut Tahrir, they even make common cause with neo-Nazis in Europe - birds of a feather an all that.


    Here's what I'm getting at-- fascism, while reactionary, was not purely reactionary in the sense it was a modern movement, offering "new solutions" for the economic, political, and social crises facing the modern nation-state at the time. Like its counterpart Communism, it was embraced across cultures, even by many mainstream people in the West. American leaders of industry and veterans service organizations hailed Mussolini's new system, and even the Zionist Lehi embraced many fascist principles. While having a bedrock of traditional social values and institutions, the ideology and the structures it created were quite new. Strains within the various fascist movements were also very much opposed to the established religions and were atheist or neopagan/mystical, though the leadership of the successful movements were smart enough to realize they had to ally themselves with institutions like churches in order to gain and maintain power.

    Islamism, on the other hand, offers very little in terms of ideology that is new. It is pure reaction. While both ideologies are reactionary and highly authoritarian (or totalitarian if you prefer) they are still different animals. The term "Islamofascism" is intellectually lazy at best, and at worst, an intellectually dishonest appeal to the emotional reaction elicited by the term "fascist".

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #25 - March 20, 2009, 09:24 PM

    Quote
    Islamism, on the other hand, offers very little in terms of ideology that is new. It is pure reaction. While both ideologies are reactionary and highly authoritarian (or totalitarian if you prefer) they are still different animals. The term "Islamofascism" is intellectually lazy at best, and at worst, an intellectually dishonest appeal to the emotional reaction elicited by the term "fascist".


    I mostly agree with you, so I'm going to stop arguing.  The only quibble I have is that there are groups among those lumped together as Islamist which are fascist,   (Hizbut is one of them).  Islamism does not equal fascism, you are correct, but some of them have embraced both.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #26 - March 20, 2009, 09:29 PM

    Quote
    Islamism, on the other hand, offers very little in terms of ideology that is new. It is pure reaction. While both ideologies are reactionary and highly authoritarian (or totalitarian if you prefer) they are still different animals. The term "Islamofascism" is intellectually lazy at best, and at worst, an intellectually dishonest appeal to the emotional reaction elicited by the term "fascist".


    I mostly agree with you, so I'm going to stop arguing.  The only quibble I have is that there are groups among those lumped together as Islamist which are fascist,   (Hizbut is one of them).  Islamism does not equal fascism, you are correct, but some of them have embraced both.


    Well, actually that may answer my initial question. Do you have a link to info about this organization?

    fuck you
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #27 - March 20, 2009, 11:06 PM

    Wahabis, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban.


    Did you purposefully miss out Hamas & Saudi Arabia?

    No, I was just picking up a handful of candidates. Hamas and Hezbollah are also quite Islamofascist. Though Wahabis = Saudi Arabia I think?

    ============

    Wahhabism started in Saudi, by Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahhab who renewed the Salafi Da'awah,

    So yeah, it's Saudi, but now, not only Saudi.

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #28 - March 20, 2009, 11:13 PM

    FF,

    I know that the Baath Party are quite illiberal, but I still think Syria is better than her neighbours, especially in terms of women's rights.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: "Islamofascism"?
     Reply #29 - March 21, 2009, 01:19 PM

    FF,

    I know that the Baath Party are quite illiberal, but I still think Syria is better than her neighbours, especially in terms of women's rights.

    Syria aided in the destruction (genocided by the millions) southern christian lebanon and replaced it with shiia and now when u goto the super market, on the street, ppl are speaking iranian.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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