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 Topic: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.

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  • Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     OP - March 23, 2009, 05:58 AM
    Apparently there's this strange custom in Saudi Arabia & its neighbouring Arab Muslim nations! If a woman breast feeds two kids'- a boy & a girl, they become foster brothers & sisters & even if they have been married, the marriage would be annuled, even if they've lived together for many years & produced loads of kids.  wacko
    http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=120583&d=22&m=3&y=2009

    The actual reason for prohibiting marriage between blood siblings, or between first cousins or other near relations is that its harmful to potential children, who have a much higher probability of genetic abnormalities. Although Islam does prohibit marriage between brother & sister, it allows marriage between first cousins, so the "super scientific" Quran was ignorant about the harmful effects of cousin marriages, but it went ahead & forbade marriages between "milk siblings" which is harmless! Shocked

    This is causing a lot of distress to couples happily married for many years. Angry
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #1 - March 23, 2009, 10:28 AM
    IIRC it's because of a hadith, a couple were forced to separate when they found out they were suckled by the same person. I cant remember which hadith it was.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #2 - March 23, 2009, 10:41 AM
     Roll Eyes That's mindless religious stupidity for ya.

    When I found out about the "magical" kinship created by breastfeeding in Islam I actually figured out a great way to put it to use. I had always thought I'd like to adopt a child, and was disappointed when I found out that this is tricky in Islam as they never really can be treated like your own children. For example, if it was a boy I'd still have to wear hijab around him when he grew up. I thought it was brilliant that breastfeeding would somehow make that problem go away as he would become a mahhrem (sp?) because of it, so I determined that I'd have to time the adoption of a newborn baby close to the time of having my own baby. Brilliant huh? hahah

    It's amazing how the sheer ridicule of it all, instead of shaking one awake, can actually drag a person's intelligence level down to be able to accept the stupidity  015

    More seriously, it is sad to hear that such a silly idea has gained the power to actually break apart families  no
    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #3 - March 23, 2009, 11:07 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 23, 2009, 10:28 AM
    IIRC it's because of a hadith, a couple were forced to separate when they found out they were suckled by the same person. I cant remember which hadith it was.

    It'd be great if you could find that out for us Peruvian, I'd like to see how important that particular hadith is, & whether it insists that married couples actually divorce. Its really sad that couples are forced to separate for such silly reasons.  :'(

    Quote from: AlmostAisha on March 23, 2009, 10:41 AM
    Roll Eyes That's mindless religious stupidity for ya.

    When I found out about the "magical" kinship created by breastfeeding in Islam I actually figured out a great way to put it to use. I had always thought I'd like to adopt a child, and was disappointed when I found out that this is tricky in Islam as they never really can be treated like your own children. For example, if it was a boy I'd still have to wear hijab around him when he grew up. I thought it was brilliant that breastfeeding would somehow make that problem go away as he would become a mahhrem (sp?) because of it, so I determined that I'd have to time the adoption of a newborn baby close to the time of having my own baby. Brilliant huh? hahah

    It's amazing how the sheer ridicule of it all, instead of shaking one awake, can actually drag a person's intelligence level down to be able to accept the stupidity  :d'oh:

    More seriously, it is sad to hear that such a silly idea has gained the power to actually break apart families  no

    . 

    Well, thats' how religion is, there's just some one line in the OT saying that people should abstain from blood which most Christians interpret as a prohibition of drinking animal blood, & there's this cult called "Jehovah's Witnesses" who actually took that one line to heart. Loads of Jehovah's Witnesses prefer to die rather than receive blood. I remember reading this story about a young mom who died shortly after giving birth to twins, although a transfusion could've easily saved her life.
    www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article427045.ece

    However, unlike most Muslims especially  Saudis, Judaism or Christianity are mostly able to view their Scriptures rationally, & other than the Witnesses no other Jewish or Christian denomination refuses blood transfusion!  great
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #4 - March 23, 2009, 11:58 AM
    Sorry Rashna, I've just tried several google searches but I cant find the frigging hadith!
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #5 - March 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Could it be this one?

    Quote from: Moutta Malek 30: Suckling Hadith 30.1.4
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Thawr ibn Zayd ad-Dili that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "The milk which a child under two years old sucks, even if it is only one suck, makes the foster relatives haram."

    Here are more related ahadith (I only read a few): http://www.islamic-council.com/esonna_u/suckling/default1.asp
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
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  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #6 - March 23, 2009, 01:43 PM
    Teşekk?r ederim Aziz! Smiley

    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 23, 2009, 11:58 AM
    Sorry Rashna, I've just tried several google searches but I cant find the frigging hadith!


    Thanks  Peruvian for telling us that there is a hadith like this, otherwise Aziz probably wouldn't have searched for it.

    Seems its a reliable hadith after all. Damn Mo, making foolish & unneccessary rules which complicate people's lives & damn foolish Islamists who can't relinquish anachronistic & useless rules! finmad
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #7 - March 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on March 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Could it be this one?

    Quote from: Moutta Malek 30: Suckling Hadith 30.1.4
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Thawr ibn Zayd ad-Dili that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "The milk which a child under two years old sucks, even if it is only one suck, makes the foster relatives haram."

    Here are more related ahadith (I only read a few): http://www.islamic-council.com/esonna_u/suckling/default1.asp

    Nope, it was an actual situation where the couple was forced to separate.

    It's funny how foster relatives are haraam yet it's ok to marry first cousins. It's also ok to marry a foster son's ex-wife yet it's not ok to marry a foster sibling? Eh?
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #8 - March 23, 2009, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on March 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Could it be this one?

    Quote from: Moutta Malek 30: Suckling Hadith 30.1.4
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Thawr ibn Zayd ad-Dili that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "The milk which a child under two years old sucks, even if it is only one suck, makes the foster relatives haram."

    Here are more related ahadith (I only read a few): http://www.islamic-council.com/esonna_u/suckling/default1.asp

    Nope, it was an actual situation where the couple was forced to separate.

    It's funny how foster relatives are haraam yet it's ok to marry first cousins. It's also ok to marry a foster son's ex-wife yet it's not ok to marry a foster sibling? Eh?


    I think cousin marriage is important in tribal culture to strengthen family ties?

    Either that or Muhammad had a really hot cousin.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #9 - March 23, 2009, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 23, 2009, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on March 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Could it be this one?

    Quote from: Moutta Malek 30: Suckling Hadith 30.1.4
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Thawr ibn Zayd ad-Dili that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "The milk which a child under two years old sucks, even if it is only one suck, makes the foster relatives haram."

    Here are more related ahadith (I only read a few): http://www.islamic-council.com/esonna_u/suckling/default1.asp

    Nope, it was an actual situation where the couple was forced to separate.

    It's funny how foster relatives are haraam yet it's ok to marry first cousins. It's also ok to marry a foster son's ex-wife yet it's not ok to marry a foster sibling? Eh?


    I think cousin marriage is important in tribal culture to strengthen family ties?

    Either that or Muhammad had a really hot cousin.

    At the cost of a child's health? It's not worth it. God should be worried about that considering he holds health in such a high regard. Also it is practised far too much for it to be only to strengthen ties. Fatima had plenty of choices and Mo recommended Ali as he felt that was the best choice. That wasn't a decision to strengthen ties.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #10 - March 23, 2009, 02:20 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 23, 2009, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on March 23, 2009, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on March 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Could it be this one?

    Quote from: Moutta Malek 30: Suckling Hadith 30.1.4
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Thawr ibn Zayd ad-Dili that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "The milk which a child under two years old sucks, even if it is only one suck, makes the foster relatives haram."

    Here are more related ahadith (I only read a few): http://www.islamic-council.com/esonna_u/suckling/default1.asp

    Nope, it was an actual situation where the couple was forced to separate.

    It's funny how foster relatives are haraam yet it's ok to marry first cousins. It's also ok to marry a foster son's ex-wife yet it's not ok to marry a foster sibling? Eh?


    I think cousin marriage is important in tribal culture to strengthen family ties?

    Either that or Muhammad had a really hot cousin.

    At the cost of a child's health? It's not worth it. God should be worried about that considering he holds health in such a high regard. Also it is practised far too much for it to be only to strengthen ties. Fatima had plenty of choices and Mo recommended Ali as he felt that was the best choice. That wasn't a decision to strengthen ties.



    Since when was Rasoolullah concerned about the health and safety of anyone but himself?

    There are many things in Islam that led to terrible health and it isn't limited to cousin marrying or child marriages.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #11 - March 23, 2009, 02:41 PM
    From talking to Bangladeshis I noticed there is a growing sense that marrying cousins is a little backwards.

    Having said that, my wife's cousin (male) just married his other cousin (female) even though she was already married to another guy back in the states. The couple were originally ostracized but then they went and had a baby which forced the families to  make amends. Who can reject an innocent grandchild?

    BKissB
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #12 - March 23, 2009, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on March 23, 2009, 02:41 PM
    From talking to Bangladeshis I noticed there is a growing sense that marrying cousins is a little backwards.

    Having said that, my wife's cousin (male) just married his other cousin (female) even though she was already married to another guy back in the states. The couple were originally ostracized but then they went and had a baby which forced the families to  make amends. Who can reject an innocent grandchild?

    BKissB

    Polyandry? Lucky woman!
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #13 - March 23, 2009, 03:19 PM
    Yes it is all quite scandalous. She came back to the states to have the baby, but the father (2nd husband) can't immigrate from Bangladesh to the US as her new husband until she wraps up the divorce with the first husband. You can imagine the first husband doesn't have much incentive to help speed the process along.

    BwackoB
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #14 - March 23, 2009, 03:54 PM
    Poor guy.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #15 - March 23, 2009, 04:48 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on March 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Could it be this one?

    Quote from: Moutta Malek 30: Suckling Hadith 30.1.4
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Thawr ibn Zayd ad-Dili that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "The milk which a child under two years old sucks, even if it is only one suck, makes the foster relatives haram."

    Here are more related ahadith (I only read a few): http://www.islamic-council.com/esonna_u/suckling/default1.asp

    Nope, it was an actual situation where the couple was forced to separate.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 48, Number 828:
    Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith:

    I married a woman and later on a woman came and said, "I suckled you both." So, I went to the Prophet (to ask him about it). He said, "How can you (keep her as a wife) when it has been said (that you were foster brother and sister)? Leave (divorce) her.

    This is a Bukhari hadith & the Prophet orders the couple to separate! yay I think I found the Hadith! Is this the one Peruvian?

    The Prophet ordered a poor couple to be divorced just like that?Only coz some woman had suckled them both? These two might've been really fond of each other & may have hoped to spend their lives together, but of course these gullible people put tremendous importance in the words of Allah's Apostle so all their future hopes might be dashed & the poor woman would bear the stigma of being a "divorcee". The more I learn about Mo, the angrier he makes me!   finmad
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #16 - March 23, 2009, 04:59 PM
    Yes! That is the one Rashna yes That one is pathetic! There was no need for a divorce! jesus!
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Saudi Foster Brothers & Sisters & Breast Feeding.
     Reply #17 - March 28, 2009, 06:25 PM
    I just came across this hilarious fatwa by a scholar from Al Azhar University, who thought a woman "breast feeding" her colleague would solved the problem of the intermingling of the sexes at the workplace. wacko

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6681511.stm

    He later retracted the fatwa!  rofl
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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