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Theme Changer

 Topic: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover

 (Read 5358 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     OP - March 26, 2009, 07:33 PM

    I was told that to appreciate the Quran I had to read it cover to cover, so that is what I am going to do. I will be posting some questions here as I go along.

    thank you
    BSmileyB

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • The first bit
     Reply #1 - March 26, 2009, 07:36 PM

    Surah 1. The Opening
    1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;

    3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;

    4. Master of the Day of Judgment.

    5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

    6. Show us the straight way,

    7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

    Who wrote this (according to believers)? Is this Allah telling us how great he is? Because it says "Thee do we worship" so it sounds like the author is part of that "we". Is this a foreward? Who wrote it?

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #2 - March 26, 2009, 08:27 PM

    Muhammad does seem to get his first second and third persons mixed up a bit in the book.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #3 - March 26, 2009, 08:28 PM

    I was told that to appreciate the Quran I had to read it cover to cover, so that is what I am going to do. I will be posting some questions here as I go along.

    thank you
    BSmileyB


    Nice exercise, for you and me too - keep us briefed as you go along (the hardest part is to keep concentrating, its very tedious, repetitive & boring!)

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #4 - March 26, 2009, 08:38 PM

    Who wrote this (according to believers)? Is this Allah telling us how great he is? Because it says "Thee do we worship" so it sounds like the author is part of that "we". Is this a foreward? Who wrote it?

    They believe the angel Gabriel quoted the Quran to Mo and was ordered to recite it (because he was illiterate).

    Mo later taught the Quran to the followers he gained shortly after, who wrote these teachings on anything they could find, such as bark or leaves, or paper if it was around.  Thats was probably why it is so repetitive, he just did it to fill in the blanks!

    After his death, Abu Bakr compiled these teachings to make the original Quran which was copied and spread by the Muslims.

    After a little time different coopies of the quran appeared. This was a huge issue because the word of God was not supposed to be be corrupted, and the 3rd caliph,  Uthman, ordered that all copies to be gathered. They studied each text, and what was deemed as original was compiled to make the current version. All of the manuscripts and parchments or bark and leaves were destroyed to prevent further corruption, the only issue being that now we have no way of doing textual study to see how accurate the final version is to the original.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #5 - March 26, 2009, 08:46 PM

    Surah 1. The Opening
    6. Show us the straight way,
    7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.



    What intrigues me with this sura is that it states to show the Muslim the straight path because Allah has bestowed his grace on those persons.

    So why does he not just bestow his grace on everyone so they can all be on the straight way?

    Verse 7 is clearer in the SHAKIR translation
    7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

    So what are those paths?

    Many believe that those on the path whose Allah's wrath has brought down are the Jews because they rejected the final prophet and the path of those gone astray are the Christians because they perverted the scripture to add partners with Allah.


    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #6 - March 26, 2009, 08:53 PM

    Verse 7 is clearer in the SHAKIR translation
    7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

    [off topic]

    What I really would like to see some time, and I've mentioned this before but I realise it's a bit of a pain to do in practice, is for the people here who are fluent in Arabic to sort through the bloody English translations and make a list of which translation was most accurate and where.

    For people who are not fluent in Arabic the number of translations, and the differences between them, can make it difficult to get a clear view of the subject matter. What we need, in my opinion, is a shorter "CEMB Guide to the Quran" that contains a consensus view on the controversial parts. It needn't go into excruciating detail on all the boring, repetitious parts of the Quran. Since those constitute the majority of the book this should save a lot of time.  grin12

    [/off topic]

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #7 - March 26, 2009, 10:18 PM

    Try openburhan.

    It contains multiple translations including the literal ones, and even points out which translations are controversial - you can get there by clicking on the verse hyperlink on the main page of the verse you're looking at.

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #8 - March 27, 2009, 01:53 AM

    I was told that to appreciate the Quran I had to read it cover to cover, so that is what I am going to do. I will be posting some questions here as I go along.

    thank you
    BSmileyB


    Good topic, Bob.

    I will contribute my thoughts whenever I can.

    Baig M Z
  • The Cow 1-10
     Reply #9 - March 27, 2009, 03:07 PM

    1. A.L.M.

    What does this mean and why has it not been translated?

    2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.

    3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

    4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

    Is this saying the Quran is for the people who already believe in previous revelations? What revelations? If it means the Bible then we shouldn?t be surprised the believers are skeptical, for it says in the Bible:

    Mk.13:21 And then if any say to you: Behold there is the Christ, or: Behold here, be not believing. 22 But false Christs and false prophets will arise and will make signs and wonders in order to be deceiving if possible, the chosen. 23 But you be looking; I have foretold you everything.

    5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.

    6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

    Is Allah saying that there is no point in trying to warn non-believers? We know from experience that people do move from a state of non-belief to belief and vice versa.

    7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

    Why would Allah seal on their hearts and hearing? Isn?t this contributing to the disbelief?

    8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.

    Understandable when the penalty for Apostacy is death.

    9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

    10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

    This a re-wording of verse number 7. Seems a bit early for the greatest piece of literature to already be redundant.

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #10 - March 27, 2009, 03:10 PM

    Verse 7 is clearer in the SHAKIR translation
    7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

    [off topic]

    What I really would like to see some time, and I've mentioned this before but I realise it's a bit of a pain to do in practice, is for the people here who are fluent in Arabic to sort through the bloody English translations and make a list of which translation was most accurate and where.

    For people who are not fluent in Arabic the number of translations, and the differences between them, can make it difficult to get a clear view of the subject matter. What we need, in my opinion, is a shorter "CEMB Guide to the Quran" that contains a consensus view on the controversial parts. It needn't go into excruciating detail on all the boring, repetitious parts of the Quran. Since those constitute the majority of the book this should save a lot of time.  grin12

    [/off topic]

    A super ambitious project of mine, to arrange the koran is a sort of cross-referenced wiki.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #11 - March 27, 2009, 04:28 PM

    Surah 1. The Opening
    1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;

    3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;

    4. Master of the Day of Judgment.

    5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

    6. Show us the straight way,

    7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

    Who wrote this (according to believers)? Is this Allah telling us how great he is? Because it says "Thee do we worship" so it sounds like the author is part of that "we". Is this a foreward? Who wrote it?


    Hello, Bob

    Good questions.

    In order to understand this Surah, I will have to refer to a prayer taught by Jesus and it would be easier to understand.

    Jesus taught this way to pray to his alleged Dad:

    Quote
    9Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

     10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

     11Give us this day our daily bread.

     12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

     13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.

     Amen.


    Now this is the Christian equivalent of "Surah Fateha". Also note that the above prayer is neither any gospel nor the New T but it has been fitted in. That is how Jesus taught his people to pray to his LORD Almighty and I am sure the LORD guided him to pray like that because he did not speak on his own. He always spoke what he was told.

    Surah Fateha is not a part of Qur'aan. It was revealed and granted to Muhammad as a prayer, just like Jesus was granted that bit. When compiling, it was put in the front and named as the Opening Chapter.

    Surah 15 Al-Hijr, Verse 87

    وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَاكَ سَبْعًا مِّنَ الْمَثَانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ 

    "We have bestowed upon you the Seven Oft-repeated and the Grand Qur'an."

    Thus Muhammad was taught by Allah, a prayer, dictated to him by Allah. Yes, Allah is telling how kind, merciful and forgiving He is. Master of the Day of Judgement. We are told to worship ONLY Allah and to seek help ONLY from Allah, not from Moses, Jesus or Muhammad and others. And ask Him to show us the right way, the way of the righteous, who never went astray and Allah was of course never angry with them.

    Good Night from Singapore
    BMZ

  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #12 - March 27, 2009, 04:36 PM

    Surah 1. The Opening
    6. Show us the straight way,
    7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.



    What intrigues me with this sura is that it states to show the Muslim the straight path because Allah has bestowed his grace on those persons.

    So why does he not just bestow his grace on everyone so they can all be on the straight way?

    Verse 7 is clearer in the SHAKIR translation
    7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

    So what are those paths?

    Many believe that those on the path whose Allah's wrath has brought down are the Jews because they rejected the final prophet and the path of those gone astray are the Christians because they perverted the scripture to add partners with Allah.




    Once Allah knows that a person is not at all going to believe in Him, He lets him wander and get lost. The paths are the ways of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

    I agree 100% with your last comment. The Jews are fiercely monotheistic like Muslims.

    BMZ
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #13 - March 28, 2009, 04:34 AM

    Surah 1. The Opening
    6. Show us the straight way,
    7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.



    What intrigues me with this sura is that it states to show the Muslim the straight path because Allah has bestowed his grace on those persons.

    So why does he not just bestow his grace on everyone so they can all be on the straight way?

    Verse 7 is clearer in the SHAKIR translation
    7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

    So what are those paths?

    Many believe that those on the path whose Allah's wrath has brought down are the Jews because they rejected the final prophet and the path of those gone astray are the Christians because they perverted the scripture to add partners with Allah.




    Once Allah knows that a person is not at all going to believe in Him, He lets him wander and get lost. The paths are the ways of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

    Stating that allah let people make a choice and then allah passively let them get lost is a comfortable story. A comfortable conclusion that helps you to stomach this text. But the text contradicts your story. The text does not agree with your "inference from a happy conclusion".

    Later in the book, we are reminded again and again how all will blind them and put a seal on their heart etc..etc.. . There isnothing passive about the muslim god letting people wander and get lost.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #14 - March 28, 2009, 07:29 AM

    Surah 1. The Opening
    6. Show us the straight way,
    7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.



    What intrigues me with this sura is that it states to show the Muslim the straight path because Allah has bestowed his grace on those persons.

    So why does he not just bestow his grace on everyone so they can all be on the straight way?

    Verse 7 is clearer in the SHAKIR translation
    7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

    So what are those paths?

    Many believe that those on the path whose Allah's wrath has brought down are the Jews because they rejected the final prophet and the path of those gone astray are the Christians because they perverted the scripture to add partners with Allah.




    Once Allah knows that a person is not at all going to believe in Him, He lets him wander and get lost. The paths are the ways of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

    Stating that allah let people make a choice and then allah passively let them get lost is a comfortable story. A comfortable conclusion that helps you to stomach this text. But the text contradicts your story. The text does not agree with your "inference from a happy conclusion".

    Later in the book, we are reminded again and again how all will blind them and put a seal on their heart etc..etc.. . There isnothing passive about the muslim god letting people wander and get lost.


    That is the way it is. If being an Arab, you cannot understand that, it neither my fault nor Allah's.

    How many Arabs have translated Qur'aan in English so far?

    Now, let us look at the prayer taught by the biblical Jesus:

    Quote
    9Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

     10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

     11Give us this day our daily bread.

     12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

     13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.


    Does Jesus' father lead everyone into temptation?  Why does he do that? Cheesy Shall I take him to be Satan?

    The language of the Scriptures is far higher than the market or street language which people speak.

    BMZ

  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #15 - March 28, 2009, 08:30 AM

    Hello everyone! I think this is a great idea Submissive Bob, I look forward to reading along with you... maybe having the company will motivate me to get through the tediousness and confusion of the whole book.

    Just a question for BMZ (or others) about this statement:

    Once Allah knows that a person is not at all going to believe in Him, He lets him wander and get lost.


    What do you mean "once Allah knows"? Doesn't Allah's knowledge encompass everything independent of time? So if Allah "knows" that a person is not "at all going to believe in him" BEFORE he even creates this person (and He must, if He is all-knowing), then why does He create the person in the first place....and THEN after making the choice to create them anyways He punishes the person for not believing? Not to mention the fact that He's taken an active role in increasing the person's disease and leading them astray! Isn't that kind of illogical and even sadistic? Please clarify! Smiley

    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: The first bit
     Reply #16 - March 28, 2009, 10:53 PM

    Surah 1. The Opening
    6. Show us the straight way,
    7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.



    What intrigues me with this sura is that it states to show the Muslim the straight path because Allah has bestowed his grace on those persons.

    So why does he not just bestow his grace on everyone so they can all be on the straight way?

    Verse 7 is clearer in the SHAKIR translation
    7. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

    So what are those paths?

    Many believe that those on the path whose Allah's wrath has brought down are the Jews because they rejected the final prophet and the path of those gone astray are the Christians because they perverted the scripture to add partners with Allah.




    Once Allah knows that a person is not at all going to believe in Him, He lets him wander and get lost. The paths are the ways of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

    Stating that allah let people make a choice and then allah passively let them get lost is a comfortable story. A comfortable conclusion that helps you to stomach this text. But the text contradicts your story. The text does not agree with your "inference from a happy conclusion".

    Later in the book, we are reminded again and again how all will blind them and put a seal on their heart etc..etc.. . There isnothing passive about the muslim god letting people wander and get lost.


    That is the way it is. If being an Arab, you cannot understand that, it neither my fault nor Allah's.

    How many Arabs have translated Qur'aan in English so far?

    Now, let us look at the prayer taught by the biblical Jesus:

    Quote
    9Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

     10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

     11Give us this day our daily bread.

     12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

     13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.


    Does Jesus' father lead everyone into temptation?  Why does he do that? Cheesy Shall I take him to be Satan?

    The language of the Scriptures is far higher than the market or street language which people speak.

    BMZ


    And what makes you think i accept the concept that the christian god is willing to tempt people. In arabic we have a saying, similar to the English tweedledee and twedledum, goes like this:

    "Hassan and Hussein, Kharaya ala El Etnein"
    Translates to, hassan and hussein my shit is on the Two.

    You try to defend 1 wrong with another, and I crap on both wrongs.



    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #17 - March 29, 2009, 01:10 AM

    I wish the Quran was arranged in chronological order.  It would give you a much better understanding of how events unfolded.

    Is there a chronological Quran available anywhere?

    .
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #18 - March 29, 2009, 01:50 AM

    I wish the Quran was arranged in chronological order.  It would give you a much better understanding of how events unfolded.

    Is there a chronological Quran available anywhere?

    Yes indeed: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/chrono.htm

    I believe the chronological arrangement is the work of Syed Mawdudi, founder of Jamaat-i-Islami

    You will note very dramatic changes in the style as well as the content reading it chronologically!

    "It may happen that the enemies of Islam may consider it expedient not to take any action against Islam, if Islam leaves them alone in their geographical boundaries... But Islam cannot agree to this unless they submit to its authority by paying Jizyah"

    -Sayyid Qutb, Milestones
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #19 - March 29, 2009, 05:54 AM

    I wish the Quran was arranged in chronological order.  It would give you a much better understanding of how events unfolded.

    Is there a chronological Quran available anywhere?

    yes there is, still is highly discontiguous. If within the same surat, the order of the story makes no sense, how could u expect the chapters will make some sense if put one after the other in order?

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • The Cow 11-29
     Reply #20 - March 31, 2009, 04:19 PM

    11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

    12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

    Here we see one of the first grouping of the non-believers and the mischief makers. "they are the ones who make mischief" Who is that? The non-believers of course. We are of course aware that not all non-believers are mischief makers and there are plenty of believing mischief makers as well. But Allah has seems to denounce all  non-muslims with this blanket statement. He seems more concerned with denouncing non-belief than he is wicked behaviour.

    I was recently told this about those verses:
    "The story behind this verse is that Allah was talking to Prophet Muhammad pbuh who was very upset about those in Quraish who refused to believe him, worrying perhaps that he did not deliver the message properly. "

    Why would God give us a message intended for everyone and insert lines that are intended specifically for Mohammed without making it clear beforehand? Any good book should be consciences of its audience and be consistent in its direction. At my job we make instruction manuals for operators and service manuals for technicians. We would clearly confuse the reader if we inserted service help into an operator guide. If God wanted to give the world a message he could have kept the instructions that applied only to Mohammed's predicament for a separate message.


    13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

    14. When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

    15. Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).

    16. These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction,

    17. Their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see.

    This is more of the same stuff. Allah has stated 3 times already that he will be pro-active in assuring the non-believers do not learn the truth. This is odd.

    18. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).

    19. Or (another similitude) is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky: In it are zones of darkness, and thunder and lightning: They press their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunder-clap, the while they are in terror of death. But Allah is ever round the rejecters of Faith!

    20. The lightning all but snatches away their sight; every time the light (Helps) them, they walk therein, and when the darkness grows on them, they stand still. And if Allah willed, He could take away their faculty of hearing and seeing; for Allah hath power over all things.

    Is that it for the redundant similtudes? I get the picture. This is supposedly God's first opportunity to speak to me and so far all he's said is "You're not going to believe this" like ten times!

    21. O ye people! Adore your Guardian-Lord, who created you and those who came before you, that ye may have the chance to learn righteousness;

    22. Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).

    23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

    24. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

    OK, this is the first evidence we are provided that this is the word of God. Apparently it is so beautiful in Arabic that it can only be written by God. Shakespeare is pretty good too and the Copts who can speak Arabic don?t seem convinced by this argument.

    25. But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before," for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).

    26. Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),-

    I understand what the similtudes mean. I'm just giving constructive creative criticism. I think he's going a bit heavy on the similtudes. But if he disdains not to use them I will let it pass.

    27. Those who break Allah.s Covenant after it is ratified, and who sunder what Allah Has ordered to be joined, and do mischief on earth: These cause loss (only) to themselves.

    28. How can ye reject the faith in Allah.- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return.

    Non-muslims do not all reject God. They reject that this book is his message.

    29. It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

    7 firmaments? Did Allah fail Astronomy? Why is God's knowledge of the universe that of a 7th century man? Why did he not reveal his creation more accurately instead of adhering to an ancient and incorrect understanding of the universe? This is like saying God created the world flat!

    BHuh?B

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #21 - March 31, 2009, 04:43 PM

    11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

    12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

    Here we see one of the first grouping of the non-believers and the mischief makers. ?they are the ones who make mischief? Who is that? The non-believers of course. We are of course aware that not all non-believers are mischief makers and there are plenty of believing mischief makers as well. But Allah has seems to denounce all  non-muslims with this blanket statement. He seems more concerned with denouncing non-belief than he is wicked behaviour.[/color][/b]


    Nice questions Bob! One thing which definitely distinguishes the quran from other religious scriptures, including the equally if not more violent OT\Torah is its intense focus on non believers. No casual reader can fail to notice this. While the OT is often just as violent, the people on whom God generally pours His wrath & violence are specifically named as Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites etc-so its easier to understand these Scriptures contextually & not apply it to every non believer. Allah(SWT) doesn't speak of just the Meccan polytheists which would be a lot easier to explain away contextually, He asks for violence on unbelievers, Jews, Christians, idolaters- a lot more difficult to explain away.

    Right from the beginning of the Quran, it seems that the Creator of Our Universe Allah is obssessed with relentlessly vilifying unbelievers & favoring believers.You were just in the beginning of your Quran reading when Allah's hatred towards unbelievers became apparent. I don't read Arabic & cannot judge the quality of the text in Arabic,perhaps it is sublime. The contents of the Quran are most definitely not. On almost every page, Allah teaches believers to despise unbelievers, on almost every page of His book, He prepares the grounds for religious violence.

    Its little wonder then that the Muslim world has no shortage of well educated men like the 9\11 pilots or Zawahiri, suffering little more than an infatuation with Quranic eschatology eager to murder unbelievers for Allah's sake.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Bob reads the Quran from cover to cover
     Reply #22 - April 02, 2009, 10:33 PM

    Oh look. I have found a CHILD'S website that explains in a few sentences the nature of the sun in more detail, much more accuracy and knowledge than anything found in the whole Qur'an:

    http://www.kidsastronomy.com/our_sun.htm

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
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