Prophet Muhammad

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- cosmicdancer
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Prophet Muhammad
OP - April 02, 2009, 04:33 PM

OK, well here's the video on Muhammad.

I used almost the whole of the allotted 10 min, but still had to cut out loads of stuff.

I hope it's not too long and boring.

I also apologise about the poor sound quality in parts - I think it was the fan on my lap top lol

Anyhooooooo... I suspect this will be my last post here - I just feel too alienated by some of the crazy things said here (even though it comes from a minority - and even though most of them are not ex-Muslims) - but that's the way I feel. (I suspect that it will also be my last vid - I found this one a chore - whereas I enjoyed making the others, so I think I must have lost motivation and interest).

So best wishes take care and...

Peace & Love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exz5kT47P2s
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #1 - April 02, 2009, 06:15 PM

I loved that video - again I think you do brilliant videos, and I am not just saying that. That one, for me, was the cleverest one yet and look forward to hearing a Muslims reaction to it - perhaps BMZ, Goldie and other Muslims could tell us what they think.

Secondly regarding you leaving , I am not sure torn between whether to ask you to stay (as it is ultimately is your decision) as you bring so much to this forum, or to congratulate you on your achievments thus far.

In any case, I still think it is premature for you to take early retirement - there is still a lot of life in you yet!

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- Zaephon
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #2 - April 02, 2009, 09:52 PM

I never have a problem with you Hassan, I know I am too radical for your taste, and I know some things can be too much to you, you're such a good-natured person. There is at least one poster who has been irritating me also.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #3 - April 02, 2009, 10:11 PM

Even if I just joined, I like Hassam and his vids.

Don't leave :(

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #4 - April 02, 2009, 11:20 PM

10 minutes isn't enough time to do this subject justice, but you covered a lot Hassan and it was a great video.

I admire the fact that you try to present arguments from both sides, so nobody can accuse you of being bias.

I disagree with one comment you made though, which is when you said this:

If Muslims are going to claim that he is the perfect role model for mankind then they are going to have to ignore 50% of the hadith literature...
... however it is also obvious that those who claim he was an evil power mad terrorist will have to ignore the 50% of benign hadith.

I agree with the former statement, but not the latter. It's perfectly possible for an evil power mad terrorist to say many good things in his life too. So you don't have to necessarily ignore 50% of the benign hadith if you believe that Muhammad was a "bad" man.

I could have a casual conversation with a bunch of murderers and drug dealers in prison and I'm sure they'd say plenty of good things too. Infact it's highly likely that they'd advise me to never murder anyone or deal in drugs.

A good role model however would NEVER commit any of the appalling acts that Muhammad committed.

Sorry I don't want to take anything away from your video, but I just thought I'd make that point.

.
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #5 - April 03, 2009, 12:12 AM

I think this is a brilliant video, impeccably argued and the sound quality was fine. Yes there were some changes, but I could hear everything you said clearly. Great use of references and explanations. Some of it still shocking even though I've been familiar with the stories for years (like the massacre of the Bani Qurayzah).

I've already linked it on another forum wherein muslims try to convince atheists and unbelievers in general of the great character of Muhammad. Hope you don't mind!

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #6 - April 03, 2009, 12:25 AM

Hassan, are you sure the hadith about Banu Quraiza and their kids is a Bukhari one?

I couldn't find it in Arabic...

Well I know you might not wanna post here...

Anyway, be good man...

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #7 - April 03, 2009, 12:33 AM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on April 02, 2009, 11:20 PM
10 minutes isn't enough time to do this subject justice, but you covered a lot Hassan and it was a great video.

I admire the fact that you try to present arguments from both sides, so nobody can accuse you of being bias.

I disagree with one comment you made though, which is when you said this:

If Muslims are going to claim that he is the perfect role model for mankind then they are going to have to ignore 50% of the hadith literature...
... however it is also obvious that those who claim he was an evil power mad terrorist will have to ignore the 50% of benign hadith.

I agree with the former statement, but not the latter. It's perfectly possible for an evil power mad terrorist to say many good things in his life too. So you don't have to necessarily ignore 50% of the benign hadith if you believe that Muhammad was a "bad" man.

I could have a casual conversation with a bunch of murderers and drug dealers in prison and I'm sure they'd say plenty of good things too. Infact it's highly likely that they'd advise me to never murder anyone or deal in drugs.

A good role model however would NEVER commit any of the appalling acts that Muhammad committed.

Sorry I don't want to take anything away from your video, but I just thought I'd make that point.

I think keeping it at 50% benign and 50% bad is brilliant. Let the viewer reach his own conclusion about 50% not being enough.

personally, i do not find 40 hadith kudsi to be enough to make the 50% good. However i find the use of the word benign to be absolutely accurate. I am sure we can find 50% benign in there.

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #8 - April 03, 2009, 01:12 AM

Hassan,

Before you leave, I just wanted to say you influenced me a lot. I actually started to make my own videos because I started watching yours. Since our views matched a lot, you have greatly motivated me to give the same message regarding religion.

Thank you Hassan.

Please keep in touch

Cheers

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #9 - April 03, 2009, 03:23 AM

Aw Hassan It's sad to see that a minority can drive you away from us.

I hope you do keep in touch. Please take care of yourself and thank you for all that you have contributed.
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #10 - April 03, 2009, 03:40 AM

He comes, he goes. He'll be back, insha Allah .

Have a nice break Hassan.

Maybe there should be a troll at the gate before you're allowed to register? "Do you uncategorically hate ALL muslims? Is anyone whose ever come near Islam been tainted by evil? Yes? You're the weakest link, goodbye."

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #11 - April 03, 2009, 04:12 AM

Terrific video Hassan! Much more balanced than what we come up with!

I suspect I'm one of those people too who've made you feel alienated but if you leave, this forum risks losing all balance, you were the one who was mostly balanced & to add to that you had thorough knowledge of the Quran, Hadiths & Sira to back that up.

When I've gone to your Youtube Channel, I've seen videos by some evangelical Christians or ex Muslim Christians & those videos too were shrill & unbalanced. Take a break if you must, but please don't quit either posting here or making your videos.

You made splendid contributions both here & with your videos, battling extremism, debating Sparky or criticising other texts & while being you were openly an ex Muslim, you were that rare thing- publicly an ex Muslim, not a convert to another faith & not an Islamophobe! You brought CEOMB a couple of great new members too, through your videos & blog.

More people like that need to air their views.

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #12 - April 03, 2009, 02:39 PM

They have sadly already removed this brilliant video. Hassan, did you upload it to any other site than youtube? If not, could you please do so, its a video all muslims need to see, to realize that Muhammed was neither holy, nor a prohpet, but just an ordinary human being, with positive and negative sides.
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #13 - April 03, 2009, 03:04 PM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on April 02, 2009, 11:20 PM
I disagree with one comment you made though, which is when you said this:

If Muslims are going to claim that he is the perfect role model for mankind then they are going to have to ignore 50% of the hadith literature...
... however it is also obvious that those who claim he was an evil power mad terrorist will have to ignore the 50% of benign hadith.

You have to give Hassan some poetic license, otherwise I would have also debated the 50% statistic, which was brilliantly worded as "benign"

Poetic license because it carries an important message, whilst still remaining inoffensive. This stops Muslims from "switching off" and see him as part of an international conspiracy.

It deconstructs the image of the prophet being a perfect man, without denying Muslims of their religion. It leaves them with something to reflect on i.e. that he was just a historical man of his time, as opposed to one that necessarily to be copied. That is where the real danger lies.

Once this perfect image has been adulterated, the religion along with its meme, will fall down like a house of cards.

A valuable lesson for anyone else doing videos, or when using arguments against believers.

Hassan brings this to the table, without being critical to the point of being blind, and I hope he still recognises his worth here and on YouTube.

Quote from: Balthier on April 03, 2009, 02:39 PM
They have sadly already removed this brilliant video. Hassan, did you upload it to any other site than youtube?

It still works for me?

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- Cheetah
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #14 - April 03, 2009, 03:05 PM

The video hasn't been removed, Balthier. I just watched it, very fair and balanced, I thought.

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #15 - April 03, 2009, 03:08 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on April 03, 2009, 03:05 PM
The video hasn't been removed, Balthier. I just watched it, very fair and balanced, I thought.

Ditto. Hassan has such a charismatic voice, perfect for making videos.

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #16 - April 03, 2009, 03:15 PM

Well, I'm told its no longer available. Perhaps its due to my location.
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #17 - April 03, 2009, 03:16 PM

Quote from: Balthier on April 03, 2009, 03:15 PM
Well, I'm told its no longer available. Perhaps its due to my location.

which part of the world are you from?

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #18 - April 03, 2009, 03:20 PM

(Western) Europe, but not uk. I guess I can use a proxy server, but I wanted to show it to muslims living in this country, because as have been said before, its a very balanced video, which does not portray Muhammed as purely vicious.
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #19 - April 03, 2009, 03:21 PM

Quote from: Balthier on April 03, 2009, 03:20 PM
(Western) Europe, but not uk. I guess I can use a proxy server, but I wanted to show it to muslims living in this country, because as have been said before, its a very balanced video, which does not portray Muhammed as purely vicious.

Use a proxy, save it elsewhere, then forward it on..

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #20 - April 03, 2009, 04:11 PM

That is a great video Hassan and truly your greatest one. It is sad to see you you leave as you add so much depth to this forum and a unique perspective. I'm sure you will be back though, you always come back You cant get rid of us Hassan I hope you come by to visit now and then

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #21 - April 03, 2009, 04:16 PM

Quote from: IsLame on April 03, 2009, 03:21 PM
Quote from: Balthier on April 03, 2009, 03:20 PM
(Western) Europe, but not uk. I guess I can use a proxy server, but I wanted to show it to muslims living in this country, because as have been said before, its a very balanced video, which does not portray Muhammed as purely vicious.

Use a proxy, save it elsewhere, then forward it on..

If you need to know how to save a youtube video, then let me know

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- Shahid Raza
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #22 - April 03, 2009, 04:29 PM

I think Hassan summed it up nicely at the end when he said that Muhammad was simply a man of his time.

In my previous post I guess I was just pointing out that even the most evil people have some good in them, but good people do not have that much evil in them.

.
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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #23 - April 03, 2009, 04:36 PM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on April 03, 2009, 04:29 PM
I think Hassan summed it up nicely at the end when he said that Muhammad was simply a man of his time.

In my previous post I guess I was just pointing out that even the most evil people have some good in them, but good people do not have that much evil in them.

Just my thoughts Shahid Raza!

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #24 - April 03, 2009, 08:44 PM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on April 03, 2009, 04:29 PM
I think Hassan summed it up nicely at the end when he said that Muhammad was simply a man of his time.

I've made that point to people time and again, and told them the problem lies with those who want to follow all his examples now in the present, when times are different.

Thinking that was one of the things that hit home for me how manmade Islam is. If he's a man of his time then he is best consigned to history. And if he were an example for all mankind to follow for all ages he wouldn't have done so many despicable things, and held so many despicable views.

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Re: Prophet Muhammad
Reply #25 - April 03, 2009, 08:49 PM

same here, the prophet along with God

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