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Theme Changer

 Topic: Cloning and DNA

 (Read 6387 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Cloning and DNA
     OP - April 08, 2009, 03:37 AM
    I'm hoping someone can help me figure this question out: If you were cloned, would your clone have the same DNA as you? if it is a copy of your DNA, would there be any way to differentiate the two?


    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #1 - April 08, 2009, 03:45 AM
    1/ Yes.

    2/ Not by any genetic testing.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #2 - April 08, 2009, 04:55 AM
    if there is no way to tell the two apart, then i just might believe that there is no such thing as personal identity...


    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #3 - April 08, 2009, 05:13 AM
    Better ask some clones about it if you ever meet some.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #4 - April 08, 2009, 07:04 AM
    Actually I believe there is a way to determine which is a clone and which is the original.

    Look up Telomeres.

    And here. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3393-dolly-the-sheep-dies-young.html

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #5 - April 08, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on April 08, 2009, 04:55 AM
    if there is no way to tell the two apart, then i just might believe that there is no such thing as personal identity...

    Not sure how you define 'personal identity', but I believe your environment plays a huge part.  In this situation, there is such a thing about personal identity, do you believe they would be the same if they were brought up in 2 different families.

    Or when one discovers he is just a copy of the original.  Fastest way to gaining a personality disorder!
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  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #6 - April 08, 2009, 08:00 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 08, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on April 08, 2009, 04:55 AM
    if there is no way to tell the two apart, then i just might believe that there is no such thing as personal identity...

    Not sure how you define 'personal identity', but I believe your environment plays a huge part.  In this situation, there is such a thing about personal identity, do you believe they would be the same if they were brought up in 2 different families.

    Or when one discovers he is just a copy of the original.  Fastest way to gaining a personality disorder!


    Then it stops being personal identity and becomes social identity... in the end, everything about you can change, there is no constant aside from your DNA, but if another person can have the same DNA as you (ie clone) and theres no way to tell them apart, there is no such thing as an absolute 'you'.


    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #7 - April 08, 2009, 08:07 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on April 08, 2009, 08:00 AM
    another person can have the same DNA as you (ie clone) and theres no way to tell them apart, there is no such thing as an absolute 'you'.


    I have no problem with that? I guess those that are spiritual may struggle with this concept, but I certainly dont.  We are just a product of Chemistry.
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  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #8 - April 08, 2009, 08:40 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 08, 2009, 08:07 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on April 08, 2009, 08:00 AM
    another person can have the same DNA as you (ie clone) and theres no way to tell them apart, there is no such thing as an absolute 'you'.


    I have no problem with that? I guess those that are spiritual may struggle with this concept, but I certainly dont.  We are just a product of Chemistry.



    I dont really have a problem with that either. I'm just trying to figure out my thesis for my philosophy course lol


    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #9 - April 08, 2009, 09:30 AM
    Your memories will be different. There will most likely be biological differences too (as Biaxident pointed out).
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #10 - April 08, 2009, 09:37 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on April 08, 2009, 08:40 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 08, 2009, 08:07 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on April 08, 2009, 08:00 AM
    another person can have the same DNA as you (ie clone) and theres no way to tell them apart, there is no such thing as an absolute 'you'.


    I have no problem with that? I guess those that are spiritual may struggle with this concept, but I certainly dont.  We are just a product of Chemistry.



    I dont really have a problem with that either. I'm just trying to figure out my thesis for my philosophy course lol

    Strictly speaking they wont be identical (as in the case of identical twins).  There are random changes in DNA too, that occur during their lifetime.  However as Os pointed out, they are not detectable by current genetic testing equipment.
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  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #11 - April 08, 2009, 09:42 AM
    The short version is that they'd start from the same genetics but still be different people because they wont have absolutely identical experiences. They'd probably be very similar in behaviour though.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #12 - April 08, 2009, 09:59 AM
    Quote from: belladonnasix on April 08, 2009, 04:55 AM
    if there is no way to tell the two apart, then i just might believe that there is no such thing as personal identity...


    Its the whole nature/nurture argument. I think they would have personal identity because it depends on the surroundings, but even identical twins, who are clones in a sense and are brought up in the same surroundings have personal identities to an extent.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #13 - April 08, 2009, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 09:42 AM
    The short version is that they'd start from the same genetics but still be different people because they wont have absolutely identical experiences. They'd probably be very similar in behaviour though.

    Thats if you believe behaviour has anything to do with your DNA.  I dont, I think it is environment (apart from those with medical problems)
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  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #14 - April 08, 2009, 11:30 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 08, 2009, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 09:42 AM
    The short version is that they'd start from the same genetics but still be different people because they wont have absolutely identical experiences. They'd probably be very similar in behaviour though.

    Thats if you believe behaviour has anything to do with your DNA.  I dont, I think it is environment (apart from those with medical problems)

    Current research seems to indicate it's not an either/or proposition. Genetics and environment both have an influence.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #15 - April 08, 2009, 11:53 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 11:30 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 08, 2009, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 09:42 AM
    The short version is that they'd start from the same genetics but still be different people because they wont have absolutely identical experiences. They'd probably be very similar in behaviour though.

    Thats if you believe behaviour has anything to do with your DNA.  I dont, I think it is environment (apart from those with medical problems)

    Current research seems to indicate it's not an either/or proposition. Genetics and environment both have an influence.

    Depends what current research is defining as personality traits I suppose.  I agree there may be genetic links in terms of types of intelligence, depression etc

    Do you believe being hard working/lazy, being confident/lacking confidence, capitalist/socialist, spritual/non spiritual are factors controlled by genes?
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  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #16 - April 08, 2009, 12:03 PM
    They probably are to some degree, or at least I wouldn't be surprised if they were. I mean if there are going to be genetic links for intelligence and depression why stop there?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #17 - April 08, 2009, 12:32 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 12:03 PM
    They probably are to some degree, or at least I wouldn't be surprised if they were. I mean if there are going to be genetic links for intelligence and depression why stop there?

    Because I see the brain as a collection of neurones that doesnt determine how we think, they just provide the mechnism to do so.  How we think is dependent on our prior experiences, and our logical & creative intelligence in how we interpret them.  Depression is down to chemical factors such as how much seratonin is pumped into the brain.

    Quote from: islame on April 08, 2009, 12:03 PM
    Do you believe being hard working/lazy, being confident/lacking confidence, capitalist/socialist, spritual/non spiritual are factors controlled by genes?


    I see these as being different as they are behavioural.  We have all experienced both extremes during our lives, so it cannot be a congenital condition and thus dependent on our environment at the time.
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  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #18 - April 08, 2009, 10:59 PM
    Sure the brain is a collection of neurons but mood, etc is influenced by neurotransmitters and the expression of those can vary due to genetic factors, so I don't see why only intelligence and depression should be linked to genetics. I think the influence is likely to be wider than that but as I said I also don't think this is an either/or proposition. Genetics is likely to lead to tendencies, which are then modified by experience.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #19 - April 10, 2009, 09:41 AM
    Our brains ARE how we think. There's no little man in the Cartesian Theatre watching that show.
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #20 - April 11, 2009, 01:13 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 11:30 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 08, 2009, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 09:42 AM
    The short version is that they'd start from the same genetics but still be different people because they wont have absolutely identical experiences. They'd probably be very similar in behaviour though.

    Thats if you believe behaviour has anything to do with your DNA.  I dont, I think it is environment (apart from those with medical problems)

    Current research seems to indicate it's not an either/or proposition. Genetics and environment both have an influence.


    More like genetics gets you started and the environment finishes you off?
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #21 - April 11, 2009, 01:49 PM
    Quote from: SmartAssmodeus on April 11, 2009, 01:13 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 11:30 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 08, 2009, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2009, 09:42 AM
    The short version is that they'd start from the same genetics but still be different people because they wont have absolutely identical experiences. They'd probably be very similar in behaviour though.

    Thats if you believe behaviour has anything to do with your DNA.  I dont, I think it is environment (apart from those with medical problems)

    Current research seems to indicate it's not an either/or proposition. Genetics and environment both have an influence.


    More like genetics gets you started and the environment finishes you off?


    yep
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  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #22 - April 12, 2009, 12:04 AM
    That's a good way of putting it, although "finishes you off" has unfortunate connotations. Grin
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Cloning and DNA
     Reply #23 - April 12, 2009, 12:09 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 12, 2009, 12:04 AM
    That's a good way of putting it, although "finishes you off" has unfortunate connotations. Grin

    The only context I ever say "finish you off" is when I am under the sheets  Tongue
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