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 Topic: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!

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  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #60 - April 12, 2009, 04:27 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 12, 2009, 03:57 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 03:51 AM
    well, islam is youngest religion of major religions, islam will grow from now because people want something to guide their life

    Assertion. No evidence to support it. Islam is 1,400 years old. That is hardly young. There are plenty of younger religions around.


    Quote
    sex and free lifestyle does not give them peace of mind.

    Hey, don't knock it. It works for me. Grin

    it work for some specially young but not for all

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #61 - April 12, 2009, 04:30 AM
    Quote from: Tommy on April 12, 2009, 04:20 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 04:15 AM

    evidence of god you can not see because you dont want to



    Kope, I know a guy who believes Elvis is still alive and he rules the universe.

    I told him I don't believe him, because I don't have any evidence of his existence presently.

    He told me "You can't see the evidence because you don't want to."

    That got me thinking, is Elvis still alive then?

    What do you think brother?



    are you kidding me?
    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #62 - April 12, 2009, 04:31 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 11, 2009, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 11, 2009, 06:58 PM
    Islamic  theologians almost universally regard monotheism as an improvement over polytheism.  This prompts atheists to ask, if belief in one god is an improvement over belief in many goddesses and gods, would belief in no gods be a further improvement over belief in one god?

    what does atheism offer to human race?

    Well, for starters freedom from these:  Wink

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Actually, not all monotheists are bad kope, the Jews at .33% of the world population have won a third of all Nobel Prizes. Not all polytheists are bad either, the Japanese Shinto Buddhists make such lovely cars, even many people believing in three gods are excellent-for eg the Catholics who run some of the best schools worldwide.

    One particular man imagined himself to be a Jewish Prophet in Saudi, became a strict monotheist, started a doctrine of intolerance & violence-& his followers offer murder, bombings, stonings & lashings.

    There's nothing special about just monotheism, that there isn't in polytheism. The Afghans haven't become any better just by switching to puritanical Islam, rather they've become worse.Japan is richer, without oil than any Muslim nation.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #63 - April 12, 2009, 04:39 AM
    I'll strike you a deal, kope. If you can prove to me that god exists and that Islam is the true religion, I'll become a believer again.

    The important thing is, however, that in order for you to prove it to me, you can't make statements without backing them up with evidence.

    For starters, you said even if Islam is true or not, it will reign. So, I have an issue with the fact that you don't really give a crap (according to that statement of yours) whether it is true or not. You just care about the fact that it has the most supporters. Sounds like the sheep theory to me.

  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #64 - April 12, 2009, 04:41 AM
    You fluffed your quote tags, Rashna. Get busy, before someone else quotes the mistake and we have a snowball effect. Grin




    (You can always use the, ahem, preview function)
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #65 - April 12, 2009, 04:43 AM
    kope, atheists also don't tend to stone adulteresses or kill witches  witch Religious folks do:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4867.0

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3586.msg91702#msg91702

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4647.0

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3630.msg93382#msg93382

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3542.0


    You can check out Sweden, one of the world's most non religious nations:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Sweden

    Does Sweden have stonings to death, clerics marrying 7 year olds, or witch killings?Nope. If people think monotheism is more logical somehow, atheism should be most logical!  Tongue

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #66 - April 12, 2009, 04:48 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 04:43 AM
    kope, atheists also don't tend to stone adulteresses or kill witches  witch Religious folks do:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4867.0

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3586.msg91702#msg91702

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4647.0

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3630.msg93382#msg93382

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3542.0


    You can check out Sweden, one of the world's most non religious nations:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Sweden

    Does Sweden have stonings to death, clerics marrying 7 year olds, or witch killings?Nope. If people think monotheism is more logical somehow, atheism should be most logical!  Tongue



    please put one question at a time

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #67 - April 12, 2009, 04:53 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 12:09 AM
    we dont need atheist to decide what to believe or not


    True, but many monotheists have been doing just that. Prophet Muhammad for example, under Allah's guidance.

    Take these lines from the Quran:

    Sura IX.5: "Then, when the sacred months have passed away, kill the idolaters wherever you find them ","and seize them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Ah, you might say, you have deliberately left out the words that come after those. Let us quote them then, "If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful."

    "Repent, take to prayer & render the alms levy" means if they become Muslim & give up their faith. Muhammad marched into Mecca, smashed the 360 idols of idolaters chanting, "Truth has come, flasehood vanished..." as he smashed. He also said that only those who remained in their houses would be safe, meaning if they came out to protect their idols, they'd not be safe.

    Then he converted the polytheists into monotheists, after all their idols were gone.

    If today, an atheist marches into Mecca, smashes the mosques & the kaaba chanting, "Truth has come..." & forbids Saudis to come out to protect their idols.

    Then after the mosques & kaaba are gone, he allows people to come out & converts them to atheism, wouldn't that be forcing?

    P.S. Sorry kope, I'll post one Q at a time next.  Smiley Just that, this is a thread I started & I haven't been around for hours. Anyway   signwelcome kope! Glad you're here.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #68 - April 12, 2009, 05:01 AM
    Quote from: heartbomb on April 12, 2009, 04:39 AM
    I'll strike you a deal, kope. If you can prove to me that god exists and that Islam is the true religion, I'll become a believer again.






    what kind of prove do you looking for?

    i believe in god because quran make sense to me and the wisdom in the quran came none other than from higher power


    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #69 - April 12, 2009, 05:09 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 05:01 AM
    Quote from: heartbomb on April 12, 2009, 04:39 AM
    I'll strike you a deal, kope. If you can prove to me that god exists and that Islam is the true religion, I'll become a believer again.



    what kind of prove do you looking for?

    i believe in god because quran make sense to me and the wisdom in the quran came none other than from higher power.


    Well, the Quran does not make sense to loads of people who would've preferred to live in peace, but the Higher Power insists that they pay the jizya tax:

    009.029
    YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
    SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.


    This is for People of the Book-Jews & Christians. For the idolaters, the Quran gives only two options-conversion to Islam or death.

    Sura IX.5: "Then, when the sacred months have passed away, kill the idolaters wherever you find them ","and seize them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Ah, you might say, you have deliberately left out the words that come after those. Let us quote them then, "If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful."

    Thus idolaters for whom the Quran does not make sense will have to be converted & Jews & Christians will have to pay jizya taxes.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #70 - April 12, 2009, 05:19 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 05:09 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 05:01 AM
    Quote from: heartbomb on April 12, 2009, 04:39 AM
    I'll strike you a deal, kope. If you can prove to me that god exists and that Islam is the true religion, I'll become a believer again.



    what kind of prove do you looking for?

    i believe in god because quran make sense to me and the wisdom in the quran came none other than from higher power.


    Well, the Quran does not make sense to loads of people who would've preferred to live in peace, but the Higher Power insists that they pay the jizya tax:






    jizya is a tax

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #71 - April 12, 2009, 05:22 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 05:19 AM
    jizya is a tax


    Yep, one which Muslims don't pay. You live in America right? Do those Christians' charge a special tax from you for being Muslim?

    Everybody should be equal under the law, the American Christians, Jews, non believers & Muslims like you have to pay the same tax.

    Unfortunately under Islam all aren't equal.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #72 - April 12, 2009, 06:19 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 01:20 AM
    no, Gandhi was a Muslim

    False, Gandhi wasn't a Muslim, he was a polytheist, he committed shirk, one of the worst sins in Islam.http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/541133/shirk yet he was a very good man, just like many polytheists and even many atheists are good people.

    Again asking you, if monotheism is an improvement over polytheism because it worships One God & subtracts many gods, shouldn't atheism be a further improvement, because it subtracts the last remaining God?

    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 01:20 AM
    The killers of Jews were non Muslim & Nazi atheist.

    Nope, that isn't an entirely correct assertion either. For one thing, it wasn't exactly clear whether Hitler was Christian or non Christian, many of his statements show him to be Christian.

    In his day, hatred of Jews was the norm. In great measure it was sponsored by the two major religions of Germany, Catholicism and Lutheranism. He greatly admired Martin Luther, who openly hated the Jews.

    "Ungodly wretches" Hitler calls the Jews in his widely read Table Talk.

    Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf. "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.

    Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable Mien Kampf never appeared on the Index of Forbidden Books.

    The Holocaust wouldn't have been possible without millennia of Christian anti Semitism, & the Christian belief that Jews committed deicide.

    Hitler was also advised by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Amin al Husayni, a Muslim, who was Hitler's adviser throughout the Holocaust & had even planned to open his own concentration camp in Palestine post war. So there the complicity of one Muslim, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, no less.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni






    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #73 - April 12, 2009, 06:26 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 04:30 AM

    are you kidding me?


    No way Kope! I'd never shit you bro.

    What do you think my brother? Do you think my friend is right? Is Elvis still alive?

    I mean, he DID say, I don't have evidence simply because I DON'T wanna believe.

    And you say the same thing about god.

    So if you suggest god must exist.

    Then hell Kope, Elvis MUST surely still exist.

    Allah-hu-akbar!!

    or in my friend's case, Elvis-hu-akbar!

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #74 - April 12, 2009, 07:11 AM
    Monotheism is intellectually superior to polytheism. The rejection of god is the next step but only the means of affirming humanity whose freedom is the ultimate end.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #75 - April 12, 2009, 07:16 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on April 12, 2009, 07:11 AM
    Monotheism is intellectually superior to polytheism.


    Why? All the arguments which we use for One God can just as easily be used for multiple gods. Once we accept the idea of God, how can we "prove" that many gods did not collaborate on the "Project Universe Creation"?  grin12

    Quote from: panoptic on April 12, 2009, 07:11 AM
    Monotheism is intellectually superior to polytheism. The rejection of god is the next step


    Well, I agree with you there. If monotheism is the automatic next step from polytheism, then atheism should be the logical next step.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #76 - April 12, 2009, 07:33 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 07:16 AM
    Why? All the arguments which we use for One God can just as easily be used for multiple gods. Once we accept the idea of God, how can we "prove" that many gods did not collaborate on the "Project Universe Creation"?  grin12


    It represents a higher stage of thought than many gods responsible for many things. Also idols are intellectually parasitic as they are entirely self-referential.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #77 - April 12, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 07:16 AM
    Well, I agree with you there. If monotheism is the automatic next step from polytheism, then atheism should be the logical next step.

    Non sequitur. Example: if dogs run around on four feet and we get around just fine on two, then the logical next step is hopping around on one foot. Discuss.  grin12
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #78 - April 12, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on April 12, 2009, 07:33 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 07:16 AM
    Why? All the arguments which we use for One God can just as easily be used for multiple gods. Once we accept the idea of God, how can we "prove" that many gods did not collaborate on the "Project Universe Creation"?  grin12

    It represents a higher stage of thought than many gods responsible for many things.

    Evidence?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #79 - April 12, 2009, 07:46 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on April 12, 2009, 07:33 AM
    It represents a higher stage of thought than many gods responsible for many things.


    Again how? Many gods may well exist & be responsible for many things. Each god might be assigned a particular department, in the Grand Project of creation of the Universe. Aren't there many human collaborators in the creation of any human project?

    Once you accept the argument of the existence of a god, you put forth various arguments in support of the belief that there must be a deity who created the Universe, nature, us, other animals etc.

    All the arguments which are used for the existence of the One God can just as easily be used for the existence of many gods.

    Quote from: panoptic on April 12, 2009, 07:33 AM
    Also idols are intellectually parasitic as they are entirely self-referential.


    Not at all, idols are about as self referential as the Torah or the Quran, when a Muslim treats the Quran as holy as holy, greets djinns on his left & right after prayers he's being intellectually parasitic too. When a Catholic bows before idols, he's trying as a human to grasp higher spiritual truths. Its very difficult to focus on the sublime without something concrete-Muslims bow towards Arabia(why Arabia?), Catholics have idols & other polytheists worship before idols.When polytheists worship, they don't always believe that the idol is God, they try to grasp the essence of Almighty God through it.

    Idolatry is as intellectually parasitic & self referential than Almighty God dictating a book containing the perfect morals of all time to an illiterate man in a cave!

    Quote from: osmanthus on April 12, 2009, 07:40 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 07:16 AM
    Well, I agree with you there. If monotheism is the automatic next step from polytheism, then atheism should be the logical next step.

    Non sequitur. Example: if dogs run around on four feet and we get around just fine on two, then the logical next step is hopping around on one foot. Discuss.  grin12


    Thats' not my claim, its the Muslim(& some other religious folks) belief that monotheism is superior simply coz it doesn't have multiple gods. Then they need to prove why atheism isn't the most superior.
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #80 - April 12, 2009, 07:49 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 07:46 AM
    greets djinns on his left & right after prayers

    actually it's angels
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #81 - April 12, 2009, 07:54 AM
    Quote from: awais on April 12, 2009, 07:49 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 07:46 AM
    greets djinns on his left & right after prayers

    actually it's angels


     thnkyu awais!
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #82 - April 12, 2009, 08:14 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 11, 2009, 06:58 PM
    Some Muslim posters on CEMB have proudly asserted that Islam came to end idolatry & Trinity!

    So in their view, idolatry & trinity are abominations, & monotheism is a huge improvement, even if it contributes little else.

    Thus some Trinitarians maybe very advanced in wealth, education, human rights while some strict monotheists maybe luxuriating in the most abysmal ignorance, but nevertheless monotheism's in itself an improvement.

    Monotheism is the belief that there exists exactly one god. Polytheism speaks of many gods and goddesses, each with his or her special jurisdiction or function. Often, a god or goddess would oversee a particular tribe or nation and would either compete with or cooperate with the deities of other nations. Belief in a single creator superceded polytheism in Judaism, Christian, and Islamic(& Zoroastrian) cultures.

    The gods and goddess of polytheism were not necessarily creators, and usually had weaknesses just like humans have. Theologians tell us the gods of monotheism are all-powerful (omnipotent), all-knowing (omniscient) and sometimes all-merciful. The monotheistic god has no equals or superiors. If a monotheistic god has a desk, the sign on it says, "The Buck Stops Here."  Wink

    Islamic  theologians almost universally regard monotheism as an improvement over polytheism.  This prompts atheists to ask, if belief in one god is an improvement over belief in many goddesses and gods, would belief in no gods be a further improvement over belief in one god?

    Nevertheless, monotheism's claims to superiority over polytheism are lacking in several ways:

    First, monotheism's claims to being true are no more believable than those of polytheism. One can use every traditional argument used for the existence of one god, to argue for the existence of many gods or goddesses. No traditional theistic argument eliminates the notion that more than one god may have worked on the project.

    Furthermore, how could we assert that the god who created this Universe was not, himself, created by an even bigger god ?
     If the Universe needs a creator to explain its existence, then the creator, being that much more complex, needs to be explained. Otherwise, we are free to rest in the fact that the Universe simply exists, period.


    Finally, if monotheism is considered an improvement over polytheism simply because it did away with multiple gods, shouldn't atheism be considered the ultimate improvement because it did away with the last remaining God?

    Just like so much of the world has done away with multiple gods, a notion which was unthinkable 3000 years ago & limited to a few people like Jews & Zoroastrians, would much of the world one day subtract the last remaining God?  Crystal Ball



    I think all Gods are equal, in that they provide a basis for mankind to aspire for the divine. It doesn't matter at all who or what you believe in, or whether what you believe in is factual or fictional. Like any other product of human cognition, each religion has good and bad points. (By this I am not suggesting that religions don't have a divine origin, nor that they do.)

    Now we can celebrate the one-ness of mankind's struggles to find meaning in our lives, to seek continuity after death, to find mankind's place and destiny in this universe or - to use another lingo - to find God. Or we can quibble about which faith is better, more reasonable, more factual. I think a much more fruitful discussion is to figure out what is the underlying message in all religions - once you remove the top layers - what it teaches us, and how relevant it is for us today and now.

    What binds us to faith? (Doesn't matter which faith.) Why is faith important for us? I have no clue. What kind of good it teaches us? What kind of non-sense does it teach us? How can we recognize one from the other? Can we be smarter than those who commit atrocious acts in the name of religion? Can we recognize the "man" behind the hindu, the buddhist, the muslim, the christian, the witch doctor?

    I'm a Muslim, and this is just my two cents' worth.

    AG
      
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #83 - April 12, 2009, 08:19 AM
    Quote from: AG on April 12, 2009, 08:14 AM
    I think all Gods are equal, in that they provide a basis for mankind to aspire for the divine. It doesn't matter at all who or what you believe in, or whether what you believe in is factual or fictional. Like any other product of human cognition, each religion has good and bad points. (By this I am not suggesting that religions don't have a divine origin, nor that they do.)   


    Nice way of looking at things AG  Afro.  Islam it aint, just your own concoction - think of your own name for it though, it might catch on..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #84 - April 12, 2009, 08:22 AM
    Quote from: AG on April 12, 2009, 08:14 AM
    I'm a Muslim, and this is just my two cents' worth.
    AG


     thnkyu for your imput AG. Its great  Afro that there're Muslims like you, but thats' hardly what Islamic doctrine & Prophet Muhammad's example teaches.

    Islam has a strict gradation of faiths-with Muslims on top, Christians & Jews next & polytheists, however good at the bottom.

    Polytheists have to convert to Islam or be killed.

    Sura IX.5: "Then, when the sacred months have passed away, kill the idolaters wherever you find them ","and seize them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Ah, you might say, you have deliberately left out the words that come after those. Let us quote them then, "If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful."

    This means, that polytheists would be spared only if the convert to Islam, Prophet Muhammad himself marched into Mecca, smashed the polytheistic idols, said that only those people who remained indoors would be safe, finally after smashing allowed people to come out & converted them to Islam. After his death, apostasy(ridda) wars broke out amongst the Muslims whom he'd converted, who were eager to throw off the yoke of Islam, & they were ruthlessly put down.

    Christians & Jews are grudgingly tolerated, as long as they pay the jizya-

    Quran 009.029
    YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
    SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    Also Muslim men can marry Christian or Jewish women, Quran(5:5), but non Muslim men have to convert to Islam to marry Muslim women Quran 2:221.


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #85 - April 12, 2009, 08:37 AM
    Quote from: kope on April 12, 2009, 01:20 AM
    no, gandhi was a muslim, the killers of jews were non muslims and nazi atheist


    lol @ Gandhi being a Muslim :S
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #86 - April 12, 2009, 08:46 AM
    Nietzsche and Napoleon (among others) were muslim too! Grin
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #87 - April 12, 2009, 08:47 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on April 12, 2009, 07:33 AM
    It represents a higher stage of thought than many gods responsible for many things. Also idols are intellectually parasitic as they are entirely self-referential.

    All gods are idols, especially Allah.
    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #88 - April 12, 2009, 08:52 AM
    Quote from: panoptic on April 12, 2009, 07:33 AM
    Quote from: Rashna on April 12, 2009, 07:16 AM
    Why? All the arguments which we use for One God can just as easily be used for multiple gods. Once we accept the idea of God, how can we "prove" that many gods did not collaborate on the "Project Universe Creation"?  grin12


    It represents a higher stage of thought than many gods responsible for many things. Also idols are intellectually parasitic as they are entirely self-referential.

    How do you quantify how "high" the stage of thought is, exactly?

    And claiming that multiple entities were the uncaused cause of the universe does not even necessarily imply that each of them had a "specific area of competence" anyway
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #89 - April 12, 2009, 08:53 AM
    Quote from: awais on April 12, 2009, 08:46 AM
    Nietzsche and Napoleon (among others) were muslim too! Grin


    Yep, they were!  Tongue
    And last but not the least, perhaps the greatest of them all, Albert Einstein was a Muslim!

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4719.0

     rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

    If some countries' want oil, they import it from Muslim countries, if Muslims want great figures, they import them from other faiths or no faith!  Wink



    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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