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 Topic: Afghan Women Protest

 (Read 4845 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Afghan Women Protest
     OP - April 17, 2009, 04:14 PM



    KABUL (AP) ? Dozens of young women braved crowds of bearded men screaming "dogs!" on Wednesday to protest an Afghan law that lets husbands demand sex from their wives. Some of the men picked up small stones and pelted the women.

    "Slaves of the Christians!" chanted the 800 or so counter-demonstrators, a mix of men and women. A line of female police officers locked hands to keep the groups apart.

    The warring protests highlight the explosive nature of the women's rights debate in Afghanistan. Both sides are girding for battle over the legislation, which has sparked an international uproar since being quietly signed into law last month.

    The law says a husband can demand sex with his wife every four days, unless she is ill or would be harmed by intercourse. It also regulates when and for what reasons a wife may leave her home without a male escort.

    Though the law would apply only to the country's Shiites, who make up less than 20 percent of Afghanistan's 30 million people, many fear its passage marks a return to Taliban-style oppression of women. The Taliban, who ruled Afghanistan from 1996-2001, required women to wear all-covering burqas and banned them from leaving home unless accompanied by a male relative.

    Governments and rights groups around the world have condemned the legislation, and President Barack Obama has labeled it "abhorrent." Afghan President Hamid Karzai has remanded the law to the Justice Department for review and put enforcement on hold.

    A host of Afghan intellectuals, politicians and even a number of Cabinet ministers have come out against the law. But those who decry the legislation face quick criticism from conservative Muslim clerics and their followers, as Wednesday's protests showed.

    "You are a dog! You are not a Shiite woman!" one man shouted to a young woman in a head scarf.

    The woman, who held a banner reading "We don't want Taliban law," replied quietly: "This is my land and my people."

    The demonstrators chose a risky spot to hold their protest ? in front of the mosque of the legislation's main backer ? and were easily outnumbered by supporters of the law. They said many women had been stopped on their way to the protest.

    In the end, more women demonstrated in favor of the law than against it: A few hundred Shiite women marched with banners to join the angry men. They blamed foreigners for inciting the protests.

    "We don't want foreigners interfering in our lives. They are the enemy of Afghanistan," said 24-year-old Mariam Sajadi.

    Sajadi is engaged to be married, and said she plans to ask her husband's permission to leave the house as put forth in the law. She said other articles ? such as the one allowing husbands to demand sex ? have been misinterpreted by Westerners prejudiced against Islam. She did not elaborate.

    On the other side of the shouting, Mehri Rezai, 32, urged her countrymen to reject the law.

    "This law treats women as if we were sheep," she said.

    Both sides say they're defending their constitutional rights ? but Afghanistan's constitution is unclear. It defers to Islamic law as the highest authority, but also guarantees equal rights for women.

    Abbas Noyan, a Shiite lawmaker who opposes the law, said he is hopeful it will be changed. But others are less sure, and even the country's minister of women's affairs, who is female, has declined to comment on the law.

    New York-based Human Rights Watch maintains that the judicial review ordered by Karzai is unlikely to be truly independent because those leading the process come from a conservative Shiite background.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hvWEqwq3CrRvaQCmt21MfoYhjZJQD97J24LO0


    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #1 - April 17, 2009, 04:18 PM

    Good to see women standing up to the Taliban.  It just shows the Taliban may be able to lead in the short term, but eventually along with all Muslim extremists, they are doomed to fail.

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #2 - April 17, 2009, 04:21 PM

    Good to see women standing up to the Taliban.  It just shows the Taliban may be able to lead in the short term, but eventually along with all Muslim extremists, they are doomed to fail.


    True, but sadly its not the Taliban that they had to stand up to with that protest, it was the democratically elected government of Afghanistan. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #3 - April 17, 2009, 07:17 PM

    Yeah, I saw that. Pretty cool. I've said it before and I'll say it again-- whenever I think of what my government did to the PDPA I get depressed and disgusted. The PDPA/DRA was not without some very serious faults (much of which was criticized by the independent women's movement in Afghanistan), but there's little doubt that Afghan women (at least in areas under government control) had it much better under the PDPA than before, since, or for the foreseeable future.

    fuck you
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #4 - April 17, 2009, 07:26 PM

    True say. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #5 - April 17, 2009, 08:19 PM

    I am just so sick of Muslims needing to formulate laws in accordance with the Quran and Muhammad's Sunna!!

    When will they grow out of this nonsense?!
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #6 - April 17, 2009, 09:05 PM

    See this report:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/16/afghanistan.law.karzai/index.html

    Quote
    The Afghan government will change a law that critics say legalizes rape within marriage for Shia Muslims, President Hamid Karzai told CNN Thursday.

     Karzai told CNN's Fareed Zakaria that he and others were unaware of the provision in the legislation, which he said "has so many articles." Karzai signed the measure into law last month.

    "Now I have instructed, in consultation with clergy of the country, that the law be revised and any article that is not in keeping with the Afghan constitution and Islamic Sharia must be removed from this law," Karzai said.


    This is a bloody joke.

    Free speech is the source of most other freedoms
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #7 - April 17, 2009, 09:34 PM

    There's an op=ed about this in the NY Times...

    Three Cheers for Afghan Women
    By Nicholas Kristof

    I?m awed by the courage of those 300 Afghan women who endured stones, jeers and threats to march through Kabul today demanding a measure of equal rights. As my colleague Dexter Filkins reports, the women were chased and insulted as ?whores? by a mob of men and women three times as large. The women were protesting a new law, applying only to Shiites, that obliges women to sleep with their husbands on demand and bars them from leaving the home without their husbands? permission.

    It?s particularly impressive that many of the women apparently were Shiites ? from the Hazara minority ? because Hazaras are poorer and less likely to school their daughters. I find Kabul a pretty scary place sometimes, and I can?t imagine the guts it would take to be a Hazara woman walking with a banner demanding equal rights through an enraged mob of stone-throwing, spitting fundamentalists. Dexter describes this scene:

        The young women stepped off the bus and moved toward the protest march just beginning on the other side of the street when they were spotted by a mob of men. ?Get out of here, you whores!? the men shouted. ?Get out!? The women scattered as the men moved in. ?We want our rights!? one of the women shouted, turning to face them. ?We want equality!? The women ran to the bus and dove inside as it rumbled away, with the men smashing the taillights and banging on the sides.

    The account by the Times of London offered this nugget:

        As the protesters tried to march to Parliament they were blocked and then surrounded by a second crowd of Afghan men who threatened to overwhelm police. Banners were torn to the ground, women were spat on and stones were thrown. ?I am not afraid. Women have always been oppressed throughout history,? Zara, an 18-year-old student from Kabul told The Times, as men in the crowd surrounding her jostled and screamed abuse. ?This law is against the dignity of women and all the international community opposes it. The US President calls it abhorrent. Don?t you see that actually we are the majority??

    Unfortunately, I?m afraid Zara is wrong: She?s not in the majority, at least in Afghanistan. Polls show that men and women alike in Afghanistan mostly don?t believe in equal rights. Women are a bit more likely to support gender equality than men, but only a bit more. The best predictor of whether someone favors women?s rights in Afghanistan isn?t whether the person is a man or woman, but whether the person lives in the city or the countryside. People in the cities are far more sympathetic to equal rights ? in other words, it?s a sign of Kabul?s progress that the demonstration happened at all. It would never have been imaginable in, say, rural Zabul or Kandahar provinces, not least because the women would never have been allowed out of their homes.

    I?m enormously impressed by the courage of these women, but I do worry about a backlash. Afghans are very nationalistic, and the women today were denounced as pawns of Christians and foreigners. Remember that during the first Gulf War in 1991, Saudi women held a demonstration to demand the right to drive, and the protest attracted enormous attention. Yet in the end it so antagonized and frightened men that it probably set back and delayed the cause of women?s rights in Saudi Arabia. I hope that?s not the case here, because Afghanistan can?t develop economically and achieve stability so long as girls are kept home and women are mostly barred from the work force.

    http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/three-cheers-for-afghan-women/

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #8 - April 17, 2009, 10:29 PM

    Quote
    Afghans are very nationalistic


    This isn't true. The author is confusing tribalism, religious fundamentalism and xenophobia with nationalism.

    fuck you
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #9 - April 17, 2009, 10:37 PM

    Most women are stupid they can control most men - even me, but they get caught up in the "magic" they don't look at the attitude of the man but listen to his words!
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #10 - April 17, 2009, 10:46 PM

    Quote
    Afghans are very nationalistic


    This isn't true. The author is confusing tribalism, religious fundamentalism and xenophobia with nationalism.


    True.  Plus, Afghanistan is in a position of dependency on the international community that didn't apply to Saudi in the 1990s.  I don't think Karzai would be let away with the same kind of backlash against this protest as the Saudis were. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #11 - April 19, 2009, 02:09 PM

    Most women are stupid they can control most men - even me, but they get caught up in the "magic" they don't look at the attitude of the man but listen to his words!


    Gee, bit of a generalization there or what.
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #12 - April 20, 2009, 11:33 PM

    Most women are stupid they can control most men - even me, but they get caught up in the "magic" they don't look at the attitude of the man but listen to his words!


    Gee, bit of a generalization there or what.


    Well, I don't know of any woman really who has not been caught up in the magic, but I did see my post come across as slightly misogynistic, even though I might sometimes be opinionated about women and women's issues I am kind of a person who supports in women having equality but some such "modern" thinking women are very sensitive to genuine criticism. They would also not sleep with a man who has some kind of Islamic background even though he may reject it, they have this idealized belief of finding a rich white man and they will worship him like a god, hence why really I find is disgusting who Asian women "love" such white men.
  • Re: Afghan Women Protest
     Reply #13 - April 21, 2009, 11:29 AM

    Most women are stupid they can control most men - even me, but they get caught up in the "magic" they don't look at the attitude of the man but listen to his words!


    Gee, bit of a generalization there or what.


    Well, I don't know of any woman really who has not been caught up in the magic, but I did see my post come across as slightly misogynistic, even though I might sometimes be opinionated about women and women's issues I am kind of a person who supports in women having equality but some such "modern" thinking women are very sensitive to genuine criticism. They would also not sleep with a man who has some kind of Islamic background even though he may reject it, they have this idealized belief of finding a rich white man and they will worship him like a god, hence why really I find is disgusting who Asian women "love" such white men.



    Mostly speaking from personal experience, I've dated Muslim men as a Muslim girl and as an ex-Muslim. The reason I am dating a white guy now is not because of his status or his race, or even his religious view points, it is because we get along really well and are compatible. To say that ex-Muslim women are gold-diggers is really far fetched, and yes it is very offensive, baseless and misogynistic. I'm going to go as far as saying that none of your posts that I have read so far imply that you are genuinely interested in judging women fairly. You can be 'into' women's issues and not support women, you know (i.e, your thread on abortion - which is often viewed as a women's issue).
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