Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


New Britain
Yesterday at 08:17 AM

Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 22, 2024, 02:51 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 21, 2024, 05:07 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam

 (Read 42095 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 ... 10 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #60 - August 13, 2009, 09:57 AM

    lol... maybe we should push that as one advantage of apostacy  - you can be a cool, bad boy that girls adore! Cheesy
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #61 - August 13, 2009, 10:00 AM



    Oh and they all know about my Youtube stuff too - but ignore it lol





    Erm..hate to shatter the illusion bro.... Smiley

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #62 - August 13, 2009, 10:02 AM

    lol... well some do - and some are highly pissed off - but who cares! grin12
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #63 - August 13, 2009, 10:59 AM

    I am finding telling muslims that I am an ex-muslim but now an atheist, actually is getting me respect as well as intrigue.  So much so, that people have a higher expectation of my values, and are surprised if I display any of my usual less than liberated values. 

    This happened yesterday evening when I met a muslim women in her late 30s and she asked me if I ate pork to which i said yes. She looked like she was about to choke.

    I later mentioned something slightly misogynistic (something to do with waking up and hoping to get breakfast Wink) and she said she expected more from me and she was disappointed in me (when I had only known her for an hour!).

    I get the feeling that some muslims these days ignorantly see Islam as a necessary shackle, and are surprised (and pleased) to see that it is just an option.

    It takes a lot of guts to leave Islam, and takes even more guts to be open about it. 

    So to all those thinking about being more open with your apostacy, of course be careful, but my advice is to share it with pride. 


    I tend to drop subtle hints about what I think and am slowly doing it "IF" the topic comes up in conversation. Me one of my uncles and cousins were at a bar yesterday and I had a shot of vodka and orange first time after a very very long time. One of my cousins from Pakistan was sat there yesterday and the topic came up very briefly. I told him that I don't believe in God and that I thought the quran was plagiarized. He was ok with it and had no problem. He said that everyone has these doubts and one should'nt be afraid of them. This is a fair point coming from someone who believes in God. The reason this came up was because he was of the opinion that alchohol wasn't haram as long as you consumed it in moderation. When I was a muslim I really did take my practise very seriously and what was haram was haram and what was halal was halal. I never tried to textually justify any hypocritical shortcoming or weakness. My other cousins were also having a drink and also knew that I was a practising muslim. Yet they didn't bat an eyelid and even offered me a drink! As they say people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I am an all or nothing person. If you believe in Islam for what it is claiming itself to be then follow it properly, don't f--- about. Take it or leave it. I know that if they wouldn't challenge me because it would make them look like hypocrites. I'm slowly for those who want to know or bring it in conversation revealing my atheism. Yes it certainly does take guts to leave it and even more to let other people know. Although it's not a topic I would initially bring up unless it is something started by the other party.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #64 - August 13, 2009, 11:08 AM

    I would love to be open but I am surrounded by religously nutters so am forced to keep silent. It does come up in conversations though and I enjoy asking questions which I know they can't answer. This usually results in a swift change of topic.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #65 - August 13, 2009, 11:56 AM

    I am slowly letting people know, if it ever crops up in conversation. With the elders I just don't bother because they simply don't have a frame of reference for it. I remember I told one of my older female cousins and she asked me why I felt the need to broadcast it. Even though she's a practising muslim. She reckoned that I would come round eventually after my little rebellion!
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #66 - August 13, 2009, 12:07 PM

    The religious types are the worst? Once they know you are firm they go on a campaign to keep you quite. Protectors of the deen.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #67 - August 13, 2009, 01:11 PM

    You what if they excommunicate you then so what? That is the best they can do. Two of my best friends are practicing muslims, and the only way you will see through them is when you tell them how you feel. If they still accept you then fine. If they show bigotry or make stupid remarks then just spit on that type of friendship! I think it's less of a concern what they will say to me, but more the potential shit that my family might endure. Kids already have their own issues to deal with. The last thing they want is to be teased at school by name calling etc. I remember it well the stuff I endured as an eight year old when my parents got divorced. That was back in the early eighties. Then when my mum re-married when I was eleven. So if the zealots and bigots don't spare you for that then divulging that type of info is way out of their frame of reference. This is where it helps if your entire family have apostated.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #68 - August 13, 2009, 02:20 PM

    What? That's odd. I tell a few girls, it makes me smart, interesting, and dangerous to know Wink.


    All the more reason to leave islam  dance

    Maliki yawm ul LULZ
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #69 - August 13, 2009, 02:27 PM

    You dont have to spill the beans straight away, but more of a drip feed. 

    You just could start off by saying you have no proof there is a god, but believe just in case, but dont follow all the rules as you believe if you are good then you will get to heaven straight away, and that is a task hard enough in itself.

    If you leave it at that, that is more than enough for people to get off your case, do want you want without being subject to a witchhunt.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #70 - August 13, 2009, 03:37 PM

    You know i've also wondered what would happen if AHM, HY or Nuh Keller apostated? Now that would be interesting  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #71 - August 13, 2009, 07:31 PM

    You know i've also wondered what would happen if AHM, HY or Nuh Keller apostated? Now that would be interesting  Roll Eyes

    God forbid! It would just be a sign that the apocalypse is near, because sheytan managed to lead these shining examples of a faithful Muslim astray.  grin12

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #72 - August 13, 2009, 07:36 PM

    You know i've also wondered what would happen if AHM, HY or Nuh Keller apostated? Now that would be interesting  Roll Eyes


    HY had said things in the past like 'the only reason I remained Muslim,' and it was followed by something other than 'because Allah guided me' or something like that.  But more of a reason where he found something that fit into his view of the world.  Interesting.  I think he had a big struggle after 9/11 as well. 

    Keller will  never leave, because Islam gives that nutter power and position he could never have in the real world.  He doesn't have the magnetism to be a regular cult leader.  When looked at within Islam, the odd way he conducts himself is seen as being the mark of someone special.  Outside of those rosy lenses, it is what it is - psychological problems. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #73 - August 13, 2009, 07:37 PM

    Even if they wanted to, I don't think these guys would apostate, as much as I'd like them to though!
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #74 - August 13, 2009, 07:41 PM

    The spiritual types tend not to, they don't rationalise it. With the exception of one complete dick called Hamza Tsortiz who is a Greek convert and a Hizb ut Tahrir type. He seems to want to debate everyone and has a rational approach. Anyone come across him. Oh and there is always Abdul Reheem Green too, Salafi type, very annoying

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #75 - August 13, 2009, 07:45 PM

    I hate Abdul Raheem Green, probably more than any other scholar. He just doesn't seem like a very nice person. People like Naik or Hamza Yusuf may be a bit smarmy, but at least they seem like they would be nice blokes.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #76 - August 13, 2009, 07:58 PM

    I think Hamza is a nice bloke inspite of Islam. I can't stand Zakir Naik myself. I preferred Deedat back in my teens. At least he was funny and he made his opponents look silly as well.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #77 - August 13, 2009, 08:02 PM

    I thought he just worked by ridicule, the oratory version of an internet troll, and then the crowd would do the rest by drowning the oppositions response by 'allah-hu-akbar' - I remember being quite ashamed when I went to one of his lectures

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #78 - August 13, 2009, 08:06 PM

    The spiritual types tend not to, they don't rationalise it. With the exception of one complete dick called Hamza Tsortiz who is a Greek convert and a Hizb ut Tahrir type. He seems to want to debate everyone and has a rational approach. Anyone come across him. Oh and there is always Abdul Reheem Green too, Salafi type, very annoying


    I always thought Tsortiz is very, very arrogant and irritating.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #79 - August 13, 2009, 08:35 PM

    You know i've also wondered what would happen if AHM, HY or Nuh Keller apostated? Now that would be interesting  Roll Eyes


    They wont.

    AHM wont and though I don't know NK or HY well -I'm sure they wont either imho. Far too much invested - their egos simply wont be able to cope (Ironic since combating the ego is supposed to high up in their beliefs lol)

    What they will do is genetically modify Islam - but call it "traditional Islam"  grin12

    Yusuf wont either - also far too much invested - he will just seek out the fatwas that give him elbow room.

    But I could be wrong - it would shake the Muslim world - at least the Western Muslims.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #80 - August 13, 2009, 08:47 PM

    "They wont.

    AHM wont and though I don't know NK or HY well -I'm sure they wont either imho. Far too much invested - their egos simply wont be able to cope (Ironic since combating the ego is supposed to high up in their beliefs lol)

    What they will do is genetically modify Islam - but call it "traditional Islam" 

    Yusuf wont either - also far too much invested - he will just seek out the fatwas that give him elbow room.

    But I could be wrong - it would shake the Muslim world - at least the Western Muslims."

    The sufi's such as NK and HY won't because they have probably reached some "maqam" or blessed station. I used to wonder what on earth these "openings" were. I asked someone and they wouldn't tell me!
    The western muslims would really be in shock and the salafi's will have a national holiday!
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #81 - August 13, 2009, 08:51 PM

    the salafi's will have a national holiday!


    True  Cheesy
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #82 - August 13, 2009, 08:56 PM

    they have probably reached some "maqam" or blessed station. I used to wonder what on earth these "openings" were. I asked someone and they wouldn't tell me!


    btw you reminded me how I often felt like the people in the street of the town from "The Emperor's New Clothes" - I tried so hard to "get it" and see what others saw - even pretended I did sometimes - until one day - like the child in that story - I just threw up my arms and said "Sorry, but he's got no fucking clothes on!"
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #83 - August 13, 2009, 08:58 PM

    Yeah Hassan what are these "openings" anyway?
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #84 - August 13, 2009, 09:06 PM

    I don't know - much of what they talked about didn't quite make sense to me.

    Like I said in my video "It's Metaphorical" - I guess there must be a "Stupid People's Heaven" for those of us that don't "get it".  Wink
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #85 - August 13, 2009, 09:06 PM

    The openings are a mystery they claim to have attained and if you too just follow them - and pay 9 quid for their latest CD or 150 for their suhba / conference - then you too, YES YOU, can be on the path to the great fana, the annihilation in Allah, the mystery!

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #86 - August 13, 2009, 09:08 PM

    Yeah, some people have claimed to see Gabriel and Al-Khidr!
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #87 - August 13, 2009, 11:00 PM

    I tried really hard to get into sufism, I can remember doing 3 hour zikr sessions alone in my room and going away for days to spiritual retreats. But it just didn't work for me.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #88 - August 14, 2009, 01:00 AM

    Do these guys (Green, NK, HY, et al) make their living by giving lectures?  Does Islam support them?  I am familiar w/almost all the people being referred to by watching countless hours of youtube videos but always wondered how they make their living.

    You do not need the Bible to justify love, but no better tool has been invented to justify hate. Richard A. Weatherwax

    Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family.  Steven Colbert
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #89 - August 14, 2009, 04:58 AM

    They make their living from various religious related functions.  The lectures and conventions, selling their wares, selling books, speaker's fees.  HY and Zaid Shakir have that little school of theirs too.  Last time I talked to anyone, HY's speaker fee was somewhere around US$10 K, and that doesn't include expenses.  Maybe he's cut his rates to fit in with the times, who knows.  Additionally the types like Keller solicit money from their students. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 ... 10 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »