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 Topic: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam

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  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #150 - December 28, 2010, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 27, 2010, 06:07 AM
    By the way, I have a soft spot for Hitchens and have read his book on Paine, Jefferson, and Orwell; I feel sorry for him. His personal life is tragic, and he has become a linguistic Ronin offering his services to the highest bidder


    Wow, what a horrible, smug, snide little creep.

    It was Manat was it not who talked about how HY used to make ranting, foaming at themouth speeches about the dajjal and other Islamic lunacy? And this man has the audacity to speak like this about Hitchens, what a joke.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #151 - December 28, 2010, 05:33 PM
    Quote from: Eliphaz on December 27, 2010, 07:55 PM
    I love how people of "religion" become allies and start brown-nosing each other when it comes to the "greater evil" -- secularism. It's a shame that people like Yusuf need to turn on secularism when he owes more to it than he would care to admit.


    Gold star for that comment  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #152 - December 28, 2010, 05:35 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 28, 2010, 04:53 PM
    I heard this from one of my CD's I have of Hamza Yusuf: "We are the first generation of Muslims to make this religion look bad".


    A bunch of jokers in the pack! 'Authentic' Muslims must be squirming secretly at the bizarre interpretations of their supposedly immutable faith,despite all the public 'Mashallahs'.
    In fact if this 'avant-garde' followers remain as a group for a sufficiently long time,they will join the ranks of followers who will be considered as heretical by the purists. Eg. : look at the plight of Ahmadis,the status of sufis.

    Assuming that guys like HY do manage to convert 75% of Americans,they will still be in danger of being bombed,in fact even greater danger!  Cheesy Cheesy

    Quote from: IsLame on December 28, 2010, 04:56 PM
    "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy" Sir Winston Churchill 1899


    Amazing how all great personalities are so prophetic in their pronouncements.
    A man's gut feelings in the late 19th century being vindicated in the 21st!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #153 - December 28, 2010, 05:37 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 28, 2010, 04:53 PM
    I heard this from one of my CD's I have of Hamza Yusuf: "We are the first generation of Muslims to make this religion look bad".


    That should be "We are the first generation of Muslims to begin to get a notion of how bad Islam can look to non Muslims"

    Plenty of Muslims made Islam look bad in the past, its just that they didn't give a shit.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #154 - December 28, 2010, 07:48 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 27, 2010, 08:19 PM
    Great books  Afro
    Take your time, read all the positive stuff about Islam and the other sides arguments & come to your own conclusion, in your own time.  If you have time take a look at the blog in my signature, it describes my journey & how I came to my thoughts.  Also visit Muslim forums as well as this one.  Let us know how it goes btw...


    I read your story. Your journey is amazing. I thank you for putting it all down. Some of Quran/Haith verses I had to research to see if they were really true as you said and what a shocking revelation. I knew so little about my own religion. Thanks.
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #155 - December 28, 2010, 07:54 PM
    Join ummah.com (possibly the largest and most active Muslim forum on the net) and take your time to read and discuss.

    You'll come back here an ex-Muslim - I guarantee! Wink
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #156 - December 29, 2010, 12:00 AM
    Quote from: solroger on December 28, 2010, 07:48 PM
    I read your story. Your journey is amazing. I thank you for putting it all down. Some of Quran/Haith verses I had to research to see if they were really true as you said and what a shocking revelation. I knew so little about my own religion. Thanks.

    So pleased you already read it - how did you come across it in the first place?  I like to get to know as much as possible to I can ensure others can see the other side of their beliefs too.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #157 - December 29, 2010, 12:29 AM
    Quote
    From the Foreword

    Getting religion out of my head was a beautiful, intense emancipation. The sheer awesome clarity that came to me after that, the peace that descended on me, is not something I could easily describe.

    It wasn’t the peace of supposedly knowing some holy book was the ultimate answer, if I only gave up enough of my questioning mind to accept every word of it.

    It wasn’t the elusive peace of believing I’d done every ritual and abasement correctly, that I had scraped and bowed and sacrificed enough that some god would mercifully refrain from killing my loved ones and might even let me into eternal paradise.

    It was the peace of understanding that, while there might be quite a lot of the world unknown to me, there was nothing purposely concealed. There was nothing “man was not meant to know.” The whole of the universe was this honest, trick-free place that I myself could come to understand, with the only limits being my limits — of intelligence or energy — and not those imposed by the hallucinatory scribblings of Bronze Age shepherds.

    I discovered that there were no all-wise holy men who talked to powerful but secretive gods in ways that were denied to me. There was no magic ritual I needed to perform each day in order to avoid burning in fire.

    There was no mystical superbeing looking down in prissy, embarrassed fury every time I got an erection. No mean-spirited creator of the universe taking down my name in purse-lipped concentration each time I wanted to crack open a science book. No small-minded, vengeful holy telepath glaring into my mind and angrily noting my every traitorous, blasphemous, independent thought.

    There was no threat built into the universe, no lightning-wreathed fist waiting to smash me for making the slightest misstep.


    Red Neck, Blue Collar, Atheist: Simple Thoughts About Reason, Gods and Faith

    by Hank Fox

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #158 - December 29, 2010, 01:16 AM
    Quote from: solroger on December 27, 2010, 06:07 AM
    Hamza Yusuf: (about Hitchens) I feel sorry for him... he has become a linguistic Ronin offering his services to the highest bidder.


    Hitchens is a writer. Thats his job. This dramatic language makes a respected vocation sound like its a bad thing, demonising a brilliant thinker and critical writing in general.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #159 - December 29, 2010, 01:18 AM
    Update: So today was the first day in my life (adult life) that I have not prayed knowingly. Yes, I didn't do wudu the whole day and never stood for prayer. I don't know how I feel. I do feel guilty. Almost as if I am betraying this religion. I have a few copies of the Qur'an in my house and I feel quilty as hell that if I go ahead with this I will never read this beautiful book again even though I don't understand one word of Arabic.

    I don't know how I will feel when I hear Qari Abdus Samad recite the Quran again. Cause it was powerful listening to him.

    I don't know how I feel about the four companions right now. All my life they have been held in such high esteem, especially Umar. I mean, what happened to Umar?Huh?
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #160 - December 29, 2010, 01:27 AM
    Qur'an... a beautiful book, yet you cannot understand Arabic? Please don't tell me the translations are beautiful! They are amongst the most incoherent and dehumanising texts I have ever read. I only ever found them beautiful because we were told it was so.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #161 - December 29, 2010, 01:32 AM
    Hey the Arabic is (was) beautiful to read and listen to but is probably the little man inside of me to say so or else there will be consequences.
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #162 - December 29, 2010, 01:36 AM
    I still find the Azan wonderfully soothing.  I love the sound of West Indian steel drums, bird song too & the sound of my farts as they ooze out of my backside too.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #163 - December 29, 2010, 01:37 AM
    Some of you guys\gals on this forum are sure of yourselves I wish I was like you.
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #164 - December 29, 2010, 01:39 AM
    Nah, it takes time, a lot of time before you reach a stage where you wont be able to believe you fell for the worlds second biggest ever scam 015
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #165 - December 29, 2010, 01:41 AM
    btw have a read of some of the intro's - you'll see how much some had invested in Islam & how difficult it was for some.  You have it relatively easy compared to a few here.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #166 - December 29, 2010, 05:24 AM
    Quote from: solroger on December 29, 2010, 01:37 AM
    Some of you guys\gals on this forum are sure of yourselves I wish I was like you.


    With time, my friend !

    I left religion at the same time a friend of mine did.  I was talking to him then, struggling to put words to what I was feeling. He said something I will never forget-

    "Look at what you have been told all your life, but look at it as though you are viewing it for the very first time." (not an EXACT quote)

    Hassan's advice will be key to this. (If I am wrong in re-framing your words, please correct me)

    With time, you will ask yourself how you could have lived any other way Smiley

    El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
    hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #167 - December 29, 2010, 09:46 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 29, 2010, 01:41 AM
    btw have a read of some of the intro's - you'll see how much some had invested in Islam & how difficult it was for some.  You have it relatively easy compared to a few here.


    +1

    Just to take the edge off it now and then and to see how absurd the whole thing is. Try going to www.mrdeity.com and www.jesusandmo.net. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it just shows the inconsistencies in a lighthearted manner.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #168 - December 29, 2010, 03:11 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 29, 2010, 01:39 AM
    Nah, it takes time, a lot of time before you reach a stage where you wont be able to believe you fell for the worlds second biggest ever scam 015


    What's the biggest?
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #169 - December 29, 2010, 03:16 PM
    Christianity
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #170 - December 29, 2010, 03:21 PM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on December 29, 2010, 09:46 AM
    +1

    Just to take the edge off it now and then and to see how absurd the whole thing is. Try going to www.mrdeity.com and www.jesusandmo.net. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it just shows the inconsistencies in a lighthearted manner.


    MrDeity is hilarious!
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #171 - December 29, 2010, 04:56 PM
    Not sure if I asked this before, but are you aware of Nuh Keller, Abdal-Hakim Murad and Muhammad-al-Yaqubi?
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #172 - December 29, 2010, 06:03 PM
    Quote
    Not sure if I asked this before, but are you aware of Nuh Keller, Abdal-Hakim Murad and Muhammad-al-Yaqubi?


    Yes I am. In fact I held/hold them in high esteem. I still can't belive how close Hassan is to AHM.
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #173 - December 29, 2010, 06:11 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 29, 2010, 06:03 PM
    Yes I am. In fact I held/hold them in high esteem. I still can't belive how close Hassan is to AHM.

    I am just curious here., did you read ever complete  Quran, Ahadith and other early Islamic literature dear solroger??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #174 - December 29, 2010, 06:13 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 29, 2010, 03:16 PM
    Christianity

    +1

    But if you examine christianity a bit more it gets even worse.

    To present something that has an inherent message of radical atheism as pure theism - now that is the mother of all scams.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #175 - December 29, 2010, 06:18 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on December 29, 2010, 06:11 PM
    I am just curious here., did you read ever complete  Quran, Ahadith and other early Islamic literature dear solroger??


    I have read all the convenient hadith. I have read the Quran many times in Arabic. I was told and I am still being told that to full understand the Quran, it requires many years of study in the Arabic language, in rhetoric, in grammar and in jahiliyyah poetry (all this from Hamza Yusuf). I have been studying Arabic one a week for the past 8 years or so.

    The problem I think I have is, I have never looked at this critically. If it has to do with God and his Prophet, it is true no matter how absurd it is.
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #176 - December 29, 2010, 06:42 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 29, 2010, 06:18 PM
    I was told and I am still being told that to full understand the Quran, it requires many years of study in the Arabic language, in rhetoric, in grammar and in jahiliyyah poetry (all this from Hamza Yusuf).

    This is the stupidest thing people like Hamza Yusuf or other half baked Arabic experts like him,  other than those who  are born   brought up,  educated in Arabic  and spend their life only in Arabic language to become  experts of Quarn say.

    Confucius said in Chinese:  
    Quote
    "Gentlemen are harmonious and not clannish. Petty man are clannish and nor harmonious."

     compare   that with with what is there in Quran
    Quote
    Quran(41:44): "Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

      And Confucius said that 1000 years before "Prophet" Muhammad(PBUH)  

    Anyone with a  bit of common sense can easily see the   differences between  words of  Confucius  and the verses from Quran.  The Confucius statements are applicable to all humanity all the time and   have  universal injunction   as a whole not just for chinese., Where as verses of  Quran    is  tribal ,  clannish and  absolutely nothing to do with improvement of quality of  life.  

    Please read Confucius  at this link, if you didn't read before.  http://www.sacred-texts.com/cfu/index.htm   you also can read all other  religious scriptures at that link

    Quote
    The problem I think I have is, I have never looked at this critically.

    Well not only you, I am fairly  certain that 100s of millions of Muslims and well educated non-Muslims didn't read Quran Arabic or other wise in an objective way.
    Quote
    If it has to do with God and his Prophet, it is true no matter how absurd it is.

    Here is the question, What is God has to do with Prophet or Prophets??   can't  we separate these two entities??  Clearly Prophet/(or)messengers  are like any other human beings.

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #177 - December 29, 2010, 06:48 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 29, 2010, 06:18 PM
    The problem I think I have is, I have never looked at this critically. If it has to do with God and his Prophet, it is true no matter how absurd it is.

    Yes, I think that was my problem too.  We were born with it, so it felt natural & true.  Even still, looking back  I was fully aware how stupid I sounded in front of atheists.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #178 - December 29, 2010, 06:52 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 29, 2010, 06:48 PM
    Yes, I think that was my problem too.  We were born with it, so it felt natural & true.  Even still, looking back I was fully aware how stupid I sounded in front of atheists.

    That is a very important point., Imagine those Muslims who never come across and who never interacted with other than Muslims, Mosques, only Islamic scriptures..

    That is the key., Interacting with people on inherent or otherwise
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #179 - December 29, 2010, 07:21 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 29, 2010, 01:36 AM
    I still find the Azan wonderfully soothing.  I love the sound of West Indian steel drums, bird song too & the sound of my farts as they ooze out of my backside too.


    Lmao real hard music with staccato beats!The relaxation that you feel at the end is heavenly! dance


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
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