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 Topic: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam

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  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #180 - December 29, 2010, 07:41 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on December 29, 2010, 06:13 PM
    +1

    But if you examine christianity a bit more it gets even worse.

    To present something that has an inherent message of radical atheism as pure theism - now that is the mother of all scams.


    I used to wonder if Christianity started as a practical joke that went way further than any of the originators intended it ?

    I can almost imagine it.........

    "Pssst ! Let's see if we can convince these people that god killed himself...."

    It would explain a lot.
    El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
    hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #181 - December 29, 2010, 07:49 PM
    this "you have to learn ARABIC to be able to understand God", surely reminds me the good old days when the Church would use the same argument regarding LATIN... The basic idea behind it is not that the script is better or worse in one language or the other, the idea is that you have to learn a dead classical language, which takes time... if you invest few years to completely master those dead classical languages, just so you can read the holy script, it means that you have been brainwashed enough during all that time as to not have any critical thought anymore. When you finally start reading the script, you have already been told that it is the most perfect thing ever, and you will arrive to the same conclusion....

    An omnipotent god, choosing a human language as a mean of communication, and claiming that only through that language you can fully comprehend him is surely not a true god...
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #182 - December 29, 2010, 08:29 PM
    Another nugget from Hamza Yusuf:

    "Why do we need to justify Gods existence? He exists, we need to justify our own existence" Sheikh Hamza Yusuf Hanson
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #183 - December 29, 2010, 09:15 PM
    " I think therefore I am"
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #184 - December 29, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Quote from: Juan Karl on December 29, 2010, 07:41 PM
    "Pssst ! Let's see if we can convince these people that god killed himself...."

     Cheesy

    You have nailed it. Pure atheism.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #185 - December 29, 2010, 09:20 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 29, 2010, 08:29 PM
    Another nugget from Hamza Yusuf:

    "Why do we need to justify Gods existence? He exists, we need to justify our own existence" Sheikh Hamza Yusuf Hanson


    Said the slave to the slave master's overlord.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #186 - December 29, 2010, 10:45 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on December 29, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Cheesy

    You have nailed it. Pure atheism.


    Oddly enough- I have read (UNVERIFIED) that there was a theologian who was a sort of "Christian Atheist". His view was said to be that there was a god, but had killed himself (aka: Jesus). I have no DIRECT sources for this. I'll take a look and post kind later tonight if I can find anything good.



    UPDATE: At least one link, decent starting point:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_J._J._Altizer
    El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
    hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #187 - December 29, 2010, 11:42 PM
    Check this out: http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2010/04/god-order-wisdom-paul-love

    The God that we get here is rather like the God from the old Bolshevik joke about a communist propagandist who, after his death, finds himself in hell, where he quickly convinces the guards to let him leave and go to heaven. When the devil notices his absence, he pays a visit to God, demanding that He return to hell what belongs to Satan. However, as soon as he addresses God as "my Lord", God interrupts him: "First, I am not 'Lord', but a comrade. Second, are you crazy, talking to fictions? I don't exist! And third, be short -- otherwise, I'll miss my party cell meeting!"

    and this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/23459535/14706198-Zizek-Monstrosity-of-Christ
    "What matters is not so much that Zizek is endorsing a demythologized, disenchanted Christianity without transcendence, as that he is offering in the end (despite what he sometimes claims) a heterodox version of Christian belief. --John Milbank; To put it even more bluntly, my claim is that it is Milbank who is effectively guilty of heterodoxy, ultimately of a regression to paganism: in my atheism, I am more Christian than Milbank. -- Slavoj Zizek"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pF7B7QJmQo
     
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #188 - December 30, 2010, 09:16 AM
    Quote from: solroger on December 29, 2010, 08:29 PM
    Another nugget from Hamza Yusuf:

    "Why do we need to justify Gods existence? He exists, we need to justify our own existence" Sheikh Hamza Yusuf Hanson


    Hmm...

    I've heard him say that. I have also heard him say that the burden of proof lies on the one who is negating the existence of God! Complete nonsense. As if God's existence is obvious and a done deal. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Otherwise, a whole host of entities can be made up up and the skeptic would have to refute all the claims.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #189 - December 30, 2010, 12:28 PM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on December 30, 2010, 09:16 AM
    Hmm...

    I've heard him say that. I have also heard him say that the burden of proof lies on the one who is negating the existence of God! Complete nonsense. As if God's existence is obvious and a done deal. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim.

    Also which version of God, they are making an even bigger leap of faith there.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #190 - December 30, 2010, 01:28 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 29, 2010, 06:18 PM
    I have read all the convenient hadith. I have read the Quran many times in Arabic. I was told and I am still being told that to full understand the Quran, it requires many years of study in the Arabic language, in rhetoric, in grammar and in jahiliyyah poetry (all this from Hamza Yusuf). I have been studying Arabic one a week for the past 8 years or so.

    The problem I think I have is, I have never looked at this critically. If it has to do with God and his Prophet, it is true no matter how absurd it is.


    This message for all men / deen for all humanity is a language that takes years to learn and really understand.

    Wow, such clear signs Tongue

    Bardhi: Until about the mid-20th century, Catholic Mass (main worship service) was still in Latin !

    El bien mas preciado / es la libertad
    hay que defenderla / con fe y valor.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #191 - December 30, 2010, 04:04 PM
    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on December 29, 2010, 07:49 PM
    this "you have to learn ARABIC to be able to understand God", surely reminds me the good old days when the Church would use the same argument regarding LATIN... The basic idea behind it is not that the script is better or worse in one language or the other, the idea is that you have to learn a dead classical language, which takes time... if you invest few years to completely master those dead classical languages, just so you can read the holy script, it means that you have been brainwashed enough during all that time as to not have any critical thought anymore. When you finally start reading the script, you have already been told that it is the most perfect thing ever, and you will arrive to the same conclusion....

    An omnipotent god, choosing a human language as a mean of communication, and claiming that only through that language you can fully comprehend him is surely not a true god...

    You hit the nail on the head. Afro
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #192 - December 30, 2010, 04:21 PM
    I hope it's okay I post some of Hamza Yusuf's quotes in this thread. The same quotes that had me head over heels just a few months ago now seem like gibberish. So can I post them here or should I start a new thread?
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #193 - December 30, 2010, 04:25 PM
    Its up to you mate, posting them here would be fine I think, because the thread is live and on subject.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #194 - December 30, 2010, 04:27 PM
    Quote from: Juan Karl on December 30, 2010, 01:28 PM
    This message for all men / deen for all humanity is a language that takes years to learn and really understand.

    Wow, such clear signs


    Surely then only those who have spent the requisite number of years studying classical Arabic should be allowed to be Muslim  Tongue

    Nah, then they don't have the numbers any more.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #195 - December 30, 2010, 04:49 PM
    Ok. Cool. Here a two I hear him say regularly:

    All of Islam revolves around two things, sincerity to your Creator and mercy to His creation - Hamza Yusuf

    and


    The world was designed for you to know your God, there would be no atheists if the night sky still existed. - Hamza Yusuf
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #196 - December 30, 2010, 04:50 PM
    To the second quote I would ask him why would God remove the night sky (the stars) from us in that case? Does God want Atheists?
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #197 - December 30, 2010, 04:54 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 30, 2010, 04:49 PM


    All of Islam revolves around two things, sincerity to your Creator and mercy to His creation - Hamza Yusuf



    Love to hear his further definition of 'sincerity' and 'mercy'



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #198 - December 30, 2010, 04:57 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 30, 2010, 04:49 PM

    The world was designed for you to know your God, there would be no atheists if the night sky still existed. - Hamza Yusuf

    What about the night sky?
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #199 - December 30, 2010, 04:58 PM
    Oh it's wonderful stars.
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #200 - December 30, 2010, 05:09 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 30, 2010, 04:49 PM
    Ok. Cool. Here a two I hear him say regularly:

    All of Islam revolves around two things, sincerity to your Creator and mercy to His creation - Hamza Yusuf

    Whose mercy? Allah's?

    Quote from: solroger on December 30, 2010, 04:49 PM

    The world was designed for you to know your God, there would be no atheists if the night sky still existed. - Hamza Yusuf

    Huh?
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #201 - December 30, 2010, 05:17 PM
    Stars

    And so what?
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #202 - December 30, 2010, 07:55 PM
    Quote from: solroger on December 30, 2010, 04:49 PM
    Ok. Cool. Here a two I hear him say regularly:

    All of Islam revolves around two things, sincerity to your Creator and mercy to His creation - Hamza Yusuf

    and


    The world was designed for you to know your God, there would be no atheists if the night sky still existed. - Hamza Yusuf



    I think he is talking about light pollution leading to stars not being easy to see or summat.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #203 - December 30, 2010, 08:21 PM
    Quote from: Lilyesque on December 30, 2010, 07:55 PM
    I think he is talking about light pollution leading to stars not being easy to see or summat.

    If the above is true it is one of the most retarded arguments I have ever heard. And yes, I used to have a proper telescope and enjoyed watching the stars as a kid and was always fascinated by the universe.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #204 - December 30, 2010, 09:13 PM
    Quote from: Lilyesque on December 30, 2010, 07:55 PM
    I think he is talking about light pollution leading to stars not being easy to see or summat.


    Yes that is what he is talking about. Sorry I should have mentioned that.
    I did wudu before entering this website.
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #205 - December 30, 2010, 09:15 PM
    So he's saying if there was no light pollution we'd be so in awe of the beauty of the milky way there'd be no atheists?

    Standard 'Ohmygod the beauty of things makes me want to fall to my knees oh my god" stuff.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #206 - December 30, 2010, 09:18 PM
     Cheesy Cheesy


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #207 - December 30, 2010, 10:49 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 30, 2010, 09:15 PM
    So he's saying if there was no light pollution we'd be so in awe of the beauty of the milky way there'd be no atheists?

    Standard 'Ohmygod the beauty of things makes me want to fall to my knees oh my god" stuff.



    Yeah, pretty disappointing my dear Hamza Yusuf!
  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #208 - December 30, 2010, 10:54 PM

    Lets invent things Yusuf Hamza would say.

    Here we go.

    Does an ant ask if the leaf it carries upon its back is put there by wind or rain? So why do we question if the moon is placed in the sky by an absence of a creator, when it gives light to a traveller at night as only God could?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hamza Yusuf: Secularism, the Greatest Danger Facing Islam
     Reply #209 - December 30, 2010, 10:57 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 30, 2010, 10:54 PM
    Lets invent things Yusuf Hamza would say.

    Here we go.

    Does an ant ask if the leaf it carries upon its back is put there by wind or rain? So why do we question if the moon is placed in the sky by an absence of a creator, when it gives light to a traveller at night as only God could?



    that fool has only high school background and few college courses of nursing., He doesn't understand optical reflections from the  surface of an object..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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