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Theme Changer

 Topic: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?

 (Read 3514 times)
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  • Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     OP - April 23, 2009, 03:41 PM

    The Quranic Revelations were revealed to Muhammad bit by bit, verse by verse & chapter by chapter. Muhammad received revelations for 23 years, would he probably have received more had he not died suddenly?

    Or did Allah\Gabriel say that all revelations had been given?

    Would the Quran possibly be longer had Muhammad lived a few more years?  Huh?

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #1 - April 23, 2009, 03:46 PM

    If he's a fake then probably yes Tongue
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #2 - April 23, 2009, 04:19 PM

    If he's a fake then probably yes Tongue


    Lol, if he's fake then definitely yes, but if it was from Allah or he sincerely believed that he was receiving revelations from Allah, then Allah who sees, hears & knows all things would've surely known that he was going to die soon right?

    So Allah would end with saying that thats' all, there's nothing more to say etc.

    If one is receiving revelations at one go, like Moses did with the Ten Commandments, then there's no need to worry about Moses's death, cause YHWH has already told Moses all He wanted to say in a single incident.

    If one is receiving revelations bit by bit & verse by verse like Muhammad supposedly did, then death does leave that type of revelation unfinished...unless Allah specifies that revelation is complete! Tongue

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #3 - April 23, 2009, 06:23 PM

    The Quranic Revelations were revealed to Muhammad bit by bit, verse by verse & chapter by chapter. Muhammad received revelations for 23 years, would he probably have received more had he not died suddenly?

    Or did Allah\Gabriel say that all revelations had been given?

    Would the Quran possibly be longer had Muhammad lived a few more years?  Huh?


    Yes, probably. But the thign is, Muslims will also say that because they say that Allah took him from this Earth when his work was done. So if he had lived longer, that would have been intentional so that he could do more.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #4 - April 23, 2009, 11:18 PM

    If he's a fake then probably yes Tongue


    Without a doubt.  Cult leaders usually start off benign, but as soon as they amass a number of followers, they change, usually for the worse.  The scriptures constantly grow and get weirder with time.
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #5 - April 24, 2009, 05:58 AM

    The way Muhammad received revelations is somewhat different from Moses receiving the Ten Commandments, or Paul receiving a revelation on the way to Damascus- both these individuals received their supposed "revelations" at one session-Moses on Mt. Sinai & Paul on the road to Syria.

    Muhammad received his revelations bit by bit, line by line & verse by verse.

    Many of the revelations have to do with specific issues Muhammad was facing at the time.

    In the Meccan period, when he was weak, while he preached hellfire for "unbelievers'', but not instructions to physically attack them, then when he managed to amass an army in Medina, in Sura 9:5, he orders an attack on idolaters, sparing them only if they convert to Islam.

    Naturally, his followers objected to these alterations in the revelations, which can be seen in the verses themselves:

    "None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?" (Qur'an 2:106).

    Qur'an 16:101: "When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not."
     
    Thus we see even in his time, Muhammad's followers were doubting him of forging revelations.  Roll Eyes


    Ditto with his other revelations, when he wanted to bang a new woman, & his wives objected, Allah promptly stepped in to make life easier for him & give a strong warning to his wives:

    O Prophet, why do you make prohibited that which God has made lawful for you just to please your wives? God is forgiving and merciful. God has given absolution from such oaths. He is your master. He is all-knowing and wise. The Prophet made a story secret to one of his wives and she repeated it, but God revealed it to him. If he divorces you, perhaps his Lord will give him instead better wives than yourselves.
    Qur'an, 66:15

    Or if Muhammad restricted his followers to four wives, but was keen to get more for himself, Allah revealed Sura 33:50, stating that its only for Muhammad, not for other believers.  bunny

    O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her; - this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess; - in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.  

    Just like Muhammad's followers felt he was faking revelations when he issued the doctrine of abrogation on a change in his circumstances, so too did little Ayesha, which is described in the hadith:

    "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311)

    Allah goes as far as to insist that guests not barge into Muhammad's house, & depart immediately after eating & while Muhammad is shy to ask them to leave, Allah isn't shy to tell them this! Tongue

    Quran 033.053
     O ye who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses,- until leave is given you,- for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but Allah is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in Allah's sight an enormity.

    Do true revelations, or even revelations of the genuinely deluded, manifest themselves like this?

    Many of the revelations are too specific, too convenient for Muhammad at that point of time, whether it be for satisfying his lust or killing his enemies or even shooing unwanted guests from his house!

    They were doubted even by his followers who accused him of falsely substituting his verses, or even by Ayesha who accused Muhammad's Lord of hastily satisfying his desires! dance

    This verse seems like a good concluding verse, Allah says He's perfected & completed:

    005.003
    YUSUFALI: Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    But alas! This is smack in the middle of the Quran.  sad

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #6 - April 24, 2009, 12:29 PM

    Apparently this is the last verse revealed by Mo-

    Surah Al-Ma'ida, chapter 5 verse 3:

    3. Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah. that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


    It's not much of an ending...
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #7 - April 24, 2009, 12:31 PM

    I think it was specifically this bit:

    Quote
    This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

    Never made sense why it's in the middle of a verse talking about what food you can't eat though. wacko

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #8 - April 24, 2009, 12:33 PM

    I think it was specifically this bit:

    Quote
    This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

    Never made sense why it's in the middle of a verse talking about what food you can't eat though. wacko

    Yeah, that really doesn't fit in with the context :\
  • Re: Would the Quran be longer had Muhammad lived longer?
     Reply #9 - April 24, 2009, 02:52 PM

    I think it was specifically this bit:

    Quote
    This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

    Never made sense why it's in the middle of a verse talking about what food you can't eat though. wacko

    Yeah, that really doesn't fit in with the context :\


    Because scholarship shows that it most likely WASN'T revealed in that context. Remember the random arrangement of the Qur'an, and the compiling of bits and pieces. It's entirely likely that the final bit was scrawled on the back of another piece with the dietary stuff on it, so it got inserted 'into the middle' during the codex compilation.

    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
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