Religion, the Great Hijacker

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- ned
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Religion, the Great Hijacker
OP - April 26, 2009, 02:03 AM

A great video from Jason Brown, on how religion hijacks our sense of mystery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMKJNKqH_qI
- The tailor
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #1 - April 26, 2009, 02:20 AM

Wow, that's some pretty full on stuff ... who is this Jason Brown person?

The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

https://vimeo.com/110528857
- ned
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #2 - April 26, 2009, 02:28 AM

He's just a YouTube poster whose video I posted before as well. I just like his videos. You might find him a bit rabidly anti-Islamic, but he's really attacking a very specific interpretation of Islam that is sadly all-too-popular.

I'm personally theistic but I have no problems with atheists/agnostics -- I think atheism and agnosticism are perfectly valid spiritual paths in their own right and are playing a very important role in the spiritual evolution of humanity.
- Tlaloc
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #3 - April 26, 2009, 11:41 AM

Quote from: ned on April 26, 2009, 02:28 AM
I think atheism and agnosticism are perfectly valid spiritual paths in their own right and are playing a very important role in the spiritual evolution of humanity.

Overloading atheism with some "spiritual path" notion is offensive for those who do not believe in spirituality (probably a vast majority of atheists).
Just like when religious people claim that atheists are somehow following the will of God.

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #4 - April 26, 2009, 11:45 AM

Quote from: Tlaloc on April 26, 2009, 11:41 AM
Overloading atheism with some "spiritual path" notion is offensive for those who do not believe in spirituality (probably a vast majority of atheists).
Just like when religious people claim that atheists are somehow following the will of God.

It's just semantics. By spiritual I simply mean "aiming to realize their potential." You could also say "cultivating an inner life." One doesn't have to be theistic to do either of these things.
- osmanthus
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #5 - April 26, 2009, 11:46 AM

To paraphrase the old saying slightly: atheism is a spiritual path like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- ned
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #6 - April 26, 2009, 11:50 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on April 26, 2009, 11:46 AM
To paraphrase the old saying slightly: atheism is a spiritual path like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Why, don't atheists have an inner life or a sense of their inner potential? Don't they contemplate, reflect, cultivate ethics, aspire to develop their talents, engage in self-development and self-improvement, etc. etc.?

You might want to naturalize the term spirituality for your purposes but there are certain meanings of it that are perfectly applicable to atheists and agnostics.
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #7 - April 26, 2009, 11:57 AM

In that limited sense, yes. However that is not how the word "spirituality" is normally used. It normally implies some sort of theism or deism.

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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #8 - April 26, 2009, 12:09 PM

By the way, I just got around to watching the video. Very good. I like it a lot, but I think he makes one mistake. Even if you did somehow gain the ability he describes at the beginning of the video I still don't think that would remove all mystery. It would remove some of it, quite a lot of it in fact, but still not all. What I mean is he describes total knowledge of the currently unknown. That would still leave the unknowable.

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #9 - April 26, 2009, 12:10 PM

Loved the video - thanks

(excellent pictures too )
- Tlaloc
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #10 - April 26, 2009, 12:13 PM

Quote from: ned on April 26, 2009, 11:50 AM
Quote from: osmanthus on April 26, 2009, 11:46 AM
To paraphrase the old saying slightly: atheism is a spiritual path like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Why, don't atheists have an inner life or a sense of their inner potential? Don't they contemplate, reflect, cultivate ethics, aspire to develop their talents, engage in self-development and self-improvement, etc. etc.?

You might want to naturalize the term spirituality for your purposes but there are certain meanings of it that are perfectly applicable to atheists and agnostics.

Such point of view requires seeing a "dual world"... as if an external/material/superficial reality exists that is separate from the inner/spiritual/deep reality.

So, no, atheists in general do not believe in an inner life or an inner potential or in anything that requires a belief in this dual existence that you like to see.

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #11 - April 26, 2009, 12:17 PM

This whole fallacy of dualism is quite widespread, though, especially in western culture:
Materiality vs Spirituality
Reason vs Feeling
Pleasure vs Enlightenment
Sex vs Love

Since I don't believe in anything, I don't believe in such metaphysical divisions either

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #12 - April 26, 2009, 12:19 PM

Quote from: Tlaloc on April 26, 2009, 12:17 PM
This whole fallacy of dualism is quite widespread, though, especially in western culture:
Materiality vs Spirituality
Reason vs Feeling
Pleasure vs Enlightenment
Sex vs Love

Since I don't believe in anything, I don't believe in such metaphysical divisions either

"Especially in western cultures" my arse.

Yin/yang.
Honour/shame.
Male/female.
Good/bad.

I could extend the list. It's human, not distinctly Western.

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Re: Religion, the Great Hijacker
Reply #13 - April 26, 2009, 12:28 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on April 26, 2009, 12:19 PM
Quote from: Tlaloc on April 26, 2009, 12:17 PM
This whole fallacy of dualism is quite widespread, though, especially in western culture:
Materiality vs Spirituality
Reason vs Feeling
Pleasure vs Enlightenment
Sex vs Love

Since I don't believe in anything, I don't believe in such metaphysical divisions either

"Especially in western cultures" my arse.

Yin/yang.
Honour/shame.
Male/female.
Good/bad.

I could extend the list. It's human, not distinctly Western.

But, you see, in general eastern philosophies try to say that opposites are actually different points of view of the same "substance" so to speak.
Yin/Yang. Opposites yes, but intermixed. One part of the other.
Or, take those eastern philosophies who claim you can gain spiritual enlightenment through material pleasure.

While for western culture, such dualism is ontological.
If you exclude some notable exceptions like Parmenides and Monism etcetera.

Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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