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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello

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  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hello
     OP - April 27, 2009, 10:21 PM
    Hi

    I am a born muslim male. I have been a dedicated muslim until a couple of months ago. I am having serious doubts about being a muslim. It's quite fustrating as i dont know who to talk to about this.

    Hopefully being here, is going to help a bit !
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #1 - April 27, 2009, 10:24 PM
    Hiya Indiana, welcome to the forum.   Smiley   Hope we can be of some help with whatever questions and doubts you have. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #2 - April 27, 2009, 10:25 PM
    Welcome Indiana -   This forum has a habit of polarising people and their opinions, which I am sure you will find out for yourslef if you stick around.  Whether you decide to go the Muslim route or not, you will probably out the right direction for you.

    So tell us more about what you are going through  Huh?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #3 - April 27, 2009, 10:47 PM
    thanks for responding.

    deep down, i know the muslim route is not for me, but i feel guilty.
    i have such mixed emotions. the ex muslims here should understand what i am saying.

    how do you stop being a muslim ?
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #4 - April 27, 2009, 10:54 PM
     signwelcome
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #5 - April 27, 2009, 10:59 PM
    Howdy. parrot
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #6 - April 27, 2009, 11:03 PM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 10:21 PM
    Hi

    I am a born muslim male. I have been a dedicated muslim until a couple of months ago. I am having serious doubts about being a muslim. It's quite fustrating as i dont know who to talk to about this.

    Hopefully being here, is going to help a bit !



    Are you Pakistani? in any case welcome... Yeah logically the attributes of Allah cannot exist, if Allah is all-knowing, and all-powerful then for one we don't have free will and two since Allah knows everything then it makes no sense for him to test Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son when he knew the outcome. 
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #7 - April 27, 2009, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 10:47 PM
    thanks for responding.

    deep down, i know the muslim route is not for me, but i feel guilty.
    i have such mixed emotions. the ex muslims here should understand what i am saying.

    how do you stop being a muslim ?



    I am an apostate, and no you don't really stop being a Muslim. You still have fear and still have doubts that Allah exists. Its annoying, you can't get rid of it.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #8 - April 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
    yes, it's that fear that prevents me from leaving islam.
    i stopped making salaah 5 times a day, but go unheartedly for jumma (cos of that fear).
    how do you get rid of that fear ?
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #9 - April 27, 2009, 11:19 PM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
    yes, it's that fear that prevents me from leaving islam.
    i stopped making salaah 5 times a day, but go unheartedly for jumma (cos of that fear).
    how do you get rid of that fear ?

    You cant, it happens naturally.

    If you think how much of your childhood was ingrained with these ideals, it will take time to rid yourself of them completely - Mecca was not built in a day
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #10 - April 28, 2009, 03:19 AM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 10:47 PM
    thanks for responding.

    deep down, i know the muslim route is not for me, but i feel guilty.
    i have such mixed emotions. the ex muslims here should understand what i am saying.

    how do you stop being a muslim ?



    Hey there.

    When you stop believing in it. That's it.  When you stop the habits and practices is up to you.
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #11 - April 28, 2009, 03:53 AM
    Welcome, Indiana. signwelcome hugs
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #12 - April 28, 2009, 07:38 AM
    Welcome Indiana.

    Fear and guilt are very normal at this stage.

    You need to read more about Islam with an open mind. Read online discussions with different opinions and see what makes sense to you. It may help if you put in your mind the possibility that all prophets might be just ordinary smart people who did what they did for their own reasons (whether it's good or bad)

    If you get the impression that online sources may not be all true, as you will hear from muslims if you try to discuss the matter with them, you should read offline books (The prophet story, ghazawat (Muslim's wars -not sure about English translation), revelation order and reasons for Quran, etc.).

    View Hassan's videos. Here is the link. http://uk.youtube.com/user/discussislam. I'm sure they would help you a lot.

    Then decide for yourself what makes sense and what doesn?t.

    Also, lots of great members here can answer your religion inquiries.

    Good luck and welcome to the forum  far away hug
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #13 - April 28, 2009, 07:57 AM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
    how do you get rid of that fear ?


    With knowledge. By knowing the truth.

    Welcome aboard. There are many here that can provide a rational understanding of Islam and religion itself so you can understand its pitfalls and shortcomings.

    Open your mind and read the Qur'an, understand the biography of Muhammad and how he rose to power, comprehend the scientific errors in the Qur'an, recognise the various statuses of humans under Sharia and recognise the barbaric punishments ordained by a merciful Allah both here and in the hereafter.

    Gettting a firm grip on these issues will not only get rid of the fear but will free your mind.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #14 - April 28, 2009, 09:10 AM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
    yes, it's that fear that prevents me from leaving islam.
    i stopped making salaah 5 times a day, but go unheartedly for jumma (cos of that fear).
    how do you get rid of that fear ?

    It took me several months to get over that fear. I finally got over it when I realised I was being blackmailed by my religion, this thought filled me with so much hatred for god that I eventually stopped fearing him and started to hate him with every inch of my being. God is nothing more than a vile, sadistic ******* who deserves nothing more than our contempt. It doesn't matter to me if he exists or not, I'd rather go to hell then worship him. His version of heaven does not appeal to me either as it treats us as nothing more than sex beasts.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #15 - April 28, 2009, 09:14 AM
    Good point.  For me I think the shift happened when I reaslied it was all a con, and I was frustrated that other Muslims could not see it that way.  Because of that I even made myself eat sausages, even thought I did not want too!
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Hello
     Reply #16 - April 28, 2009, 09:23 AM
    thanks for all your support and encouragement.

    now is that time for change  Afro
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #17 - April 28, 2009, 09:47 AM
    Thats the attitude indiana 0O

    its been a good few years for me now but i still have the odd moment of doubt and fear. But it took years of islam all the way from childhood to instill that fear so i know it will take alot longer.

    its the other side of the jihad of oneself. Only instead of trying harder to be a muslim in the inner war you are trying to do the opposite.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #18 - April 28, 2009, 10:12 AM
    Quote from: indiana on April 28, 2009, 09:23 AM
    thanks for all your support and encouragement.

    now is that time for change  Afro


    Dont forget to keep us posted on how it goes  Wink
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #19 - April 28, 2009, 10:22 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 28, 2009, 09:10 AM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
    yes, it's that fear that prevents me from leaving islam.
    i stopped making salaah 5 times a day, but go unheartedly for jumma (cos of that fear).
    how do you get rid of that fear ?

    It took me several months to get over that fear. I finally got over it when I realised I was being blackmailed by my religion, this thought filled me with so much hatred for god that I eventually stopped fearing him and started to hate him with every inch of my being. God is nothing more than a vile, sadistic ******* who deserves nothing more than our contempt. It doesn't matter to me if he exists or not, I'd rather go to hell then worship him. His version of heaven does not appeal to me either as it treats us as nothing more than sex beasts.


    Yeah I was just going to say to him/her after the fear comes the hate... I more often have hate, well I think hate would be a too strong a word, its angst to be honest. 
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #20 - April 28, 2009, 10:29 AM
    Yes, its a mixture of all of these feelings - just when the vast majority of them are negative and you feel like you are letting yourself down by still adhering to nonsensical principles
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #21 - April 28, 2009, 10:58 AM
    Agree about the hate and anger thing. I have alot of that.

    mostly because of how difficult it made my life, the fact that people swallow the lies so deeply it made them do awful things to me and to others.

    plus how difficult it is still making my life now and will do in the future. Makes me want to scream sometimes, it also brings home a close reminder of how the women in muslim countries must feel right before they pour petrol all over themselves and set themselves on fire in anger and despair.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #22 - April 28, 2009, 12:11 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on April 28, 2009, 10:58 AM
    Agree about the hate and anger thing. I have alot of that.

    mostly because of how difficult it made my life, the fact that people swallow the lies so deeply it made them do awful things to me and to others.

    plus how difficult it is still making my life now and will do in the future. Makes me want to scream sometimes, it also brings home a close reminder of how the women in muslim countries must feel right before they pour petrol all over themselves and set themselves on fire in anger and despair.


    I can relate to that  Cry

    Welcome Indiana.  Smiley
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #23 - April 28, 2009, 12:17 PM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 10:21 PM
    Hi

    I am a born muslim male. I have been a dedicated muslim until a couple of months ago. I am having serious doubts about being a muslim. It's quite fustrating as i dont know who to talk to about this.

    Hopefully being here, is going to help a bit !



    Welcome Indiana  Smiley
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #24 - April 28, 2009, 12:28 PM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 11:14 PM
    yes, it's that fear that prevents me from leaving islam.
    i stopped making salaah 5 times a day, but go unheartedly for jumma (cos of that fear).
    how do you get rid of that fear ?



    I said on another thread I would like to start a slogan campaign with the words:

    "You won't go to Hell!"

    It is a message I want everyone - but especially Muslims to hear.

    There is no Hell. It is a fiction.

    The angry, vindictive, sadistic God of the Abrahamic religions is a man-made myth.

    I know how hard it is to rid oneself of the fear of this angry and scary God - I have had him hanging round my head for a very long time.

    But the first thing to do is pull this fictional bogey man apart with logic and rational thought.

    You can have a look at some of the videos I made - I link to them in my signature. But here is a good video about Hell by someone else:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #25 - April 28, 2009, 03:01 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 28, 2009, 12:28 PM
    There is no Hell. It is a fiction.

    The angry, vindictive, sadistic God of the Abrahamic religions is a man-made myth.

    But the first thing to do is pull this fictional bogey man apart with logic and rational thought.



    Ever heard of Godel's incompleteness theorem?
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #26 - April 28, 2009, 10:48 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on April 27, 2009, 11:03 PM
    Quote from: indiana on April 27, 2009, 10:21 PM
    Hi

    I am a born muslim male. I have been a dedicated muslim until a couple of months ago. I am having serious doubts about being a muslim. It's quite fustrating as i dont know who to talk to about this.

    Hopefully being here, is going to help a bit !



    Are you Pakistani? in any case welcome... Yeah logically the attributes of Allah cannot exist, if Allah is all-knowing, and all-powerful then for one we don't have free will and two since Allah knows everything then it makes no sense for him to test Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son when he knew the outcome. 


    We could still have free will, it's just that Allah could know us so well, he knows what we will choose. Also, he could be testing Abraham in order to prove something to Abraham. I think a better example of how the attributes of Allah cannot exist is the Euthyphro Dilemma, that is, that if God is both All-Powerful and All-Knowing, then he knows how to stop evil and he is also able to stop evil, so that means he chooses not to stop evil. Therefore, God/Allah is not All-good, one of the key attributes of God/Allah.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #27 - April 28, 2009, 11:00 PM
    The only thing you can do, Indiana, is keep questioning yourself rigorously. The imaams told me not to question. I believe they told me that because they knew that approached logically, Islam has no basis. This next bit may sound harsh but I think deep down you will agree with me. Your emotions will only get in your way. Don't let your love for atheism, nor your love for Islam get in the way of your better judgment. Save your emotion for non-rational activities like praying. Don't think of yourself as hypocritical if you continue praying. I continued praying 5 times a day months after I realized how wrong I had been converting to Islam! It wasn't the same, but I think psychologically, it's just the fact that your doing what has become a habit for you which matters. I did become slightly depressed, even the question of suicide came into my head, but if you stick to rationality and overcome your emotion's attempt to take over your better self, then you will do just fine. Plus, you have a new internet community here who will comfort you Smiley Fire away with the rigorous debating! Cheesy
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #28 - April 28, 2009, 11:41 PM
    Welcome to the forum indiana.

    Overcoming the fear of hell is one of the biggest obstacles that doubting Muslims face.  It is instilled into us from the beginning and can be very psychologically damaging.

    I remember when I was a kid, sitting in mosque in a circle with other kids on the nights of shab-e-raat and lailat-ul-qadr, and listening to a young imam talking about what will supposedly happen in hell.  The burning, the roasting, the iron rods etc.  It all sounded very frightening to us all.


    But now that we are older and we have the ability to think for ourselves, we need to question the whole concept of hell.  We need to shake off these fears and think from outside the box.

    Once you make the brave decision to question the concept of hell, it becomes obvious that the whole concept of hell depicted in the abrahamic religions simply cannot be true.  It just wouldn't make sense.  It is nothing but brainwashing.

    Why would God burn unbelievers in hell?  Why?

    Look around you.  Look at all of the perfectly innocent, perfectly decent non-Muslims living their daily lives.  People who are mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, teachers, doctors, manual workers, charity workers etc.  What have these people done to deserve being burned in hell forever?  What crime did they commit?

    If you burn yourself for a split second, you'll know how much it hurts.  So ask yourself, what kind of person deserves to have their whole body burnt for all eternity?  Who deserves this kind of punishment?

    A murderer?  A rapist?  A thief?

    No, according to Islam, you only have to "disbelieve" in Allah and Muhammad to deserve this punishment.  Does that sound fair?

    And how can God punish finite "sin" with infinite punishment?

    Here's something else to make you ponder:

    A non-Muslim asked a Muslim... "How much does Allah love us?"
    The Muslim replied... "As much as a mother loves her child".
    The non-Muslim then said... "No.  A mother would never burn her child in a fire no matter what they have done".



    There are loads of ex-Muslims here who know exactly how you feel indiana.  We all managed to shake off the shackles of Islam and we'll be happy to help and support anyone else who is going through the same experience.
    .
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #29 - April 29, 2009, 07:33 AM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on April 28, 2009, 11:41 PM
    Here's something else to make you ponder:

    A non-Muslim asked a Muslim... "How much does Allah love us?"
    The Muslim replied... "As much as a mother loves her child".
    The non-Muslim then said... "No.  A mother would never burn her child in a fire no matter what they have done".

    Thanks, edited it so I can use it in the future for my own discussions-

    A non-Muslim asked a Muslim... "How much does Allah love us?"
    The Muslim replied... "More than a mother loves her child".
    The non-Muslim then said... "A mother would never let her child burn in fire for eternity, no matter what they have done, even if he denied that she was his mother" .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
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