Well, i have a muslim aunt whom i always ask what about shari'a, killing apostates and the other laws.
She responds: what makes u think u can implement sharia only the prophet and sa7aba can do that.
My problem really with this forum (and i am not defending islam) is i feel people here despise moderates.
I dont know is it just a wrong feeling i have, or perhaps i am misunderstanding something?
@ tabun:
We don't *hate* moderates. We will treat them with respect
as fellow human beings, but we will
not respect their beliefs. We will
question/ridicule/criticise the aspects of their beliefs and practices that are incompatible with life in a secular democracy. We must maintain the pressure on them by speaking out against human rights abuses and denial of women's rights, LGBT rights, apostate rights, etc etc, on behalf of the voiceless and powerless victims within these communities. And we must also speak out against the preaching of hatred of disbelievers (especially Jews!) that takes place in Mosques in the West (particularly).
And when we talk about 'moderate', what do we mean? How moderate is moderate? And how many true moderates are there? What aspects are they moderate in? I don't want to sound like a reactionary, right-wing bigot here, and I hope I am not promoting any kind of hatred against Muslims, but I've got to be fuckin honest here -- honest with myself first and foremost. In my opinion, the true moderates are the likes of
Quilliam Foundation,
BMSD, Ishad Manji's groups etc. They are the ones who have consciously subscribed to secular, liberal values. I am happy to treat these groups as friends, but I would (personally) like to maintain the pressure on all other Muslims.
Sorry if I come across as intolerant. I am not a hate monger.
Your Muslim aunt may not support the killing of apostates, and that's good, of course, but I have to be honest and say that far too many Muslims in my city (Leicester, UK) are far too literal in their interpretation of Islamic texts. My brother unashamedly supports the death penalty for apostasy. He is a staunch creationist too, despite having been educated in the West. I don't want this situation to continue generation after generation. In my city 10 years ago there were about 25 Mosques (including basic prayer halls) and now there are
nearly 50. It seems that the level of religiosity has been climbing and I am not seeing the Muslims becoming more moderate, (although this could change). The fact that there are Muslim schools where teenage girls have to wear the niqab to and from school speaks for itself. The secularist Muslims are still few and far between.
Having said all that, I will not bash you for taking the softly-softly approach with 'so-called' moderate Muslims. There is an argument that taking that approach makes it more likely to win over the wavering Muslims, and helps engender the spread of good memes to counter the bad memes. But there is also the argument that it lets the moderate Muslims continue enabling the less moderate Muslims. I have debated with myself over the last many months about the best way to enlighten Islam and have finally decided to adopt this position. I sometimes still defend Islam when it would be dishonest to blame Islam for something. That would the the right and proper thing to do. I am a lover of science and a lover of the truth.
I will end with a quote taken from Greta Christina's long blog post about
"What Can the Atheist Movement Learn from the Gay Movement?":
"to let firebrands be firebrands, and to let diplomats be diplomats" 
Topic: Unethical/questionable hadiths and surahs