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Theme Changer

 Topic: Absurd Doubts

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  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #150 - May 12, 2009, 05:21 PM

    Are there others who feel massive pity for Shan? Or am I just a bad person......
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #151 - May 12, 2009, 05:23 PM

    Are there others who feel massive pity for Shan? Or am I just a bad person......


    It's better to feel pity than scorn, I fluctuate between the two.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #152 - May 12, 2009, 05:23 PM

    Are there others who feel massive pity for Shan? Or am I just a bad person......


    I don't think you're the only one, but it gets frustrating at times.  I spose its just impossible to reason a person out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #153 - May 12, 2009, 05:26 PM

    Are there others who feel massive pity for Shan? Or am I just a bad person......


    I do feel pity for her. She really does seem like a sweet soul. But like I said, she is off her rocker - I'm sorry if that sounds very rude - but I have to be honest - she really does appear to be a little crazy.

    But what pisses me off is that in the midst of all her crazy beliefs - she goes on the attack to other ppls crazy beliefs.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #154 - May 12, 2009, 05:32 PM

    Shan once believed in reincarnation, now in her fundie version of Xtianity, its all a quest for certainity & sanity, she might go back to reincarnation once more.  yes

    Actually, diotima & Sparky were quite sane, Diotima was surer that her faith is progressive, moral etc more than actually believing in it, Sparky believed but was quite sane, although he was blind to the faults of his faith.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #155 - May 12, 2009, 05:57 PM

    That was probably Diotima walking the dog , back there at the al-fresco prayer mtg.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #156 - May 12, 2009, 06:10 PM

    Que?   Huh?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #157 - May 12, 2009, 08:17 PM

    One member quoted these words of God:

    Quote
    Quran, chapter 3:54 says:

     "and [they] deceived and Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers"



    If you have any brain left inside your head, then you can see to whom it refers.

    It clearly says God deceives the deceivers.

    What your problem with that.

    They deserve to be mislead and thrown in Hell.

    Did you expect God to give dishonest people pancakes?  Wink




    Is God justified in deceiving deceivers exactly because they did the same act before God did it?

    If so, does that mean I can kill the child of the murderer of my child?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #158 - May 12, 2009, 08:53 PM

    There is hell. And God is all-powerful....but he is not a man that he should lie. If your god can lie, that disqualifies him from being God.


    I actually agree - the God of Islam is quite immoral.

    But so is the God of the Bible.

    I could re-phrase your statement as:

    "If your God can order the killing of babies that disqualifies him from being God."

    How do you manage to dismiss one immoral God and yet believe in another?





    I'm sorry...but they were Nephilim. That's why I need to find a PDF book of Enoch for you. Even so, there is something in me that feels bad for these offspring. They never asked to be what they are.


    Are you passing moral judgment on God? If not then why say this?


    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #159 - May 12, 2009, 08:57 PM

    There is hell. And God is all-powerful....but he is not a man that he should lie. If your god can lie, that disqualifies him from being God.


    I actually agree - the God of Islam is quite immoral.

    But so is the God of the Bible.

    I could re-phrase your statement as:

    "If your God can order the killing of babies that disqualifies him from being God."

    How do you manage to dismiss one immoral God and yet believe in another?





    I'm sorry...but they were Nephilim. That's why I need to find a PDF book of Enoch for you. Even so, there is something in me that feels bad for these offspring. They never asked to be what they are.


    It doesn't matter how you spin it - your God is immoral - he kills babies.

    Or if you want to argue they were evil - then he creates evil people and then kills them for being the way he created them.

    Your God is not only immoral but he is insane.


    I know. It is nearly (if not completely) impossible for humans like us to understand how something like this could be just. Yet, I know it is my own fallen nature that doesn't get it.
    Quote
    I guess that's why anyone who takes the Bible literally is off their rocker.


    I can see how it looks that way.







    I thought you were a young earth creationist. Doesn't that mean you take the Bible literally? sorry I thought you wrote the quote. I'm not wearing my glasses because it's caused a skin irritation.

    And how do you know that it is you who misunderstands? How did you arrive at such a conclusion? If you say "faith" then how did you arrive at the conclusion that you should have "faith"?


    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #160 - May 12, 2009, 09:09 PM

    Who said God can lie?

    You assume too much.




    God CANNOT lie....but Allah CAN. He admitted it. He said he is the greatest of liars (deceivers). So, how one believe ANYTHING he says? What else is he lying about? Paradise? He has no such place as paradise. But God has a place appointed for him...I'm  sure it is a place God created specifically for the "best of liars".


    It doesn't say "Best of liars" actually - but I agree that God seems to have no problem in deceiving in the Qur'an.

    And why not - he also deceives people in the Bible.

    Of course you will have some stupid explanation - just as Muslims have some stupid explanation for their bullshit.

    The blindness and hypocrisy of all religios nuts like you, really pisses me off - whether they be Muslims or Christians.

    You both believe in bullshit yet you mock the other persons bullshit.

    1 Kings 22:23
    Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
    2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
    Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
    Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
    Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
    2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.



    When I first started doubting Islam, it was a very sudden shock. I remember it very well, I was on the bus on the way home from college. When I realized the fact I have highlighted in bold above, I felt as though my heart had been physically tugged. I then questioned myself, "So what would happen if I applied the same rigorous criticism I do against other beliefs so liberally against my own Islamic beliefs, would I find any faults with it?" Then it shocked me, the fact that I had never even thought of such a simple thing before!!! And I always thought of myself as a rational person always trying to separate my emotion from my rationality!

    This is a fact many religious people need to realize. Just think of the number of Christian programmes that come on the TV and Muslims watch it and if they see a kid preaching in the square they think "oh my, how embarassing. Why is he so deluded?!?! I feel sorry for him" and the exact same is true of the opposite when there is a Muslim programme on TV and Christians watch it. When a Christian sees a Muslim kid preaching in the square, they say the same thing, but if a Christian sees a Christian kid in the square they praise him for his efforts to please God Almighty and when the Muslim sees a Muslim kid preaching in the square they say, "MashaAllah! What a brave child! May Allah reward him!"

    Doesn't the Muslim realize that a Christian thinks so low of a Muslim programme in the same way that a Muslim thinks so low of a Christian programme, and vice versa?!?!

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #161 - May 12, 2009, 09:13 PM

    Who said God can lie?

    You assume too much.




    God CANNOT lie....but Allah CAN. He admitted it. He said he is the greatest of liars (deceivers). So, how one believe ANYTHING he says? What else is he lying about? Paradise? He has no such place as paradise. But God has a place appointed for him...I'm  sure it is a place God created specifically for the "best of liars".


    It doesn't say "Best of liars" actually - but I agree that God seems to have no problem in deceiving in the Qur'an.

    And why not - he also deceives people in the Bible.

    Of course you will have some stupid explanation - just as Muslims have some stupid explanation for their bullshit.

    The blindness and hypocrisy of all religios nuts like you, really pisses me off - whether they be Muslims or Christians.

    You both believe in bullshit yet you mock the other persons bullshit.

    1 Kings 22:23
    Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
    2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
    Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
    Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
    Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
    2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.



    When I first started doubting Islam, it was a very sudden shock. I remember it very well, I was on the bus on the way home from college. When I realized the fact I have highlighted in bold above, I felt as though my heart had been physically tugged. I then questioned myself, "So what would happen if I applied the same rigorous criticism I do against other beliefs so liberally against my own Islamic beliefs, would I find any faults with it?" Then it shocked me, the fact that I had never even thought of such a simple thing before!!! And I always thought of myself as a rational person always trying to separate my emotion from my rationality!

    This is a fact many religious people need to realize. Just think of the number of Christian programmes that come on the TV and Muslims watch it and if they see a kid preaching in the square they think "oh my, how embarassing. Why is he so deluded?!?! I feel sorry for him" and the exact same is true of the opposite when there is a Muslim programme on TV and Christians watch it.

    Doesn't the Muslim realize that a Christian thinks so low of a Muslim programme in the same way that a Muslim thinks so low of a Christian programme, and vice versa?!?!


    Quite simply, we find it hard to see things through anything other than our own cultural/religious perspective.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #162 - May 15, 2009, 12:26 PM


    Is God justified in deceiving deceivers exactly because they did the same act before God did it?

    If so, does that mean I can kill the child of the murderer of my child?


    The child is innocent, why on earth would you want to punish an innocent human being.

    God punishes only the guility.

    He is not like you to take His wrath on innocent people who had nothing to do with the crime.

    God is Just.

    God says He deceives the deceivers.

    People like you want to deceives the mother of the deceviers.

    Poor innocent woman being targeted by Atheists.


    truthful person never fears debates: http://omrow.blogspot.com/
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #163 - May 15, 2009, 12:30 PM


    Is God justified in deceiving deceivers exactly because they did the same act before God did it?

    If so, does that mean I can kill the child of the murderer of my child?


    The child is innocent, why on earth would you want to punish an innocent human being.

    God punishes only the guility.

    He is not like you to take His wrath on innocent people who had nothing to do with the crime.

    God is Just.

    God says He deceives the deceivers.

    People like you want to deceives the mother of the deceviers.

    Poor innocent woman being targeted by Atheists.




    Poor innocent rayback, being targeted by the theists. He has not seen the light of the Pancake Lord.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #164 - May 15, 2009, 02:54 PM


    Is God justified in deceiving deceivers exactly because they did the same act before God did it?

    If so, does that mean I can kill the child of the murderer of my child?


    The child is innocent, why on earth would you want to punish an innocent human being.

    God punishes only the guility.

    He is not like you to take His wrath on innocent people who had nothing to do with the crime.

    God is Just.

    God says He deceives the deceivers.

    People like you want to deceives the mother of the deceviers.

    Poor innocent woman being targeted by Atheists.




    In that case I take it that you do not believe that an action can be justified on a "you did it first" mentality.

    Allah is deceiving the deceivers as a punishment for a crime they did. What was this crime? Deceit. So what is Allah's justification?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #165 - May 15, 2009, 06:07 PM

    Shan once believed in reincarnation, now in her fundie version of Xtianity, its all a quest for certainity & sanity, she might go back to reincarnation once more.  yes

    Actually, diotima & Sparky were quite sane, Diotima was surer that her faith is progressive, moral etc more than actually believing in it, Sparky believed but was quite sane, although he was blind to the faults of his faith.


    That's not going to happen. The bible says it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement. That means no reincarnation.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #166 - May 15, 2009, 06:16 PM

    Who said God can lie?

    You assume too much.




    God CANNOT lie....but Allah CAN. He admitted it. He said he is the greatest of liars (deceivers). So, how one believe ANYTHING he says? What else is he lying about? Paradise? He has no such place as paradise. But God has a place appointed for him...I'm  sure it is a place God created specifically for the "best of liars".


    It doesn't say "Best of liars" actually - but I agree that God seems to have no problem in deceiving in the Qur'an.

    And why not - he also deceives people in the Bible.

    Of course you will have some stupid explanation - just as Muslims have some stupid explanation for their bullshit.

    The blindness and hypocrisy of all religios nuts like you, really pisses me off - whether they be Muslims or Christians.

    You both believe in bullshit yet you mock the other persons bullshit.

    1 Kings 22:23
    Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
    2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
    Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
    Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
    Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
    2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.



    God can't lie...but he will send demons to those that continually insist on being deceived. The king hated Ezekiel for always telling the truth....and the truth hurt. After begging Ezekiel to say something nice, God finally granted the King his wish and sent a lying spirit. 

    There is a time God is going to send a strong delusion...because have love of the truth. He cannot lie...but he can send lying demons.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #167 - May 15, 2009, 06:25 PM

    Shaneequa, read Hassan's third quote.

    If your going to say "I know it says God deceives but really it means he will send some demons to deceive", then couldn't the same be said of the Qur'anic God?

    Nevertheless, somebody who sends somebody to do something is also responsible for that person's actions.

    Can you imagine a Palestinian crying out to an Israeli war minister who is visiting the country, "You murderer! You murdered my whole family!" and the minister saying, "I beg your pardon?! Get your facts right, I didn't kill them, some Israeli soldiers killed them... I just sent them."

    He's either stupid or taking the piss, right?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #168 - May 15, 2009, 06:27 PM

    Quote from: Shaneequa
    He cannot lie...but he can send lying demons.

    Hell, this is almost sig-worthy.  Cheesy

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #169 - May 15, 2009, 06:33 PM

    But Shan, the God of the Bible lied.  He told Adam that if he ate off the tree of knowledge he would die.  The snake said "no you won't, you'll just know the difference between right and wrong", and the snake turned out to be telling the truth.


    He died spiritually...then later died physically. The first knowledge he gained was the knowledge of his nakedness and shame. Secondly, his sin brought death...and God, in front of them slew an animal for their covering. Until that time, there was no death. can you imagine how horrifying it must have been?

    And then to learn that your first son murdered your younger son....they learned evil, but the devil promised they would be as God. If they were so much as God, why couldn't they resurrect their their younger son? Why did they have to toil the land and endure hardship? Why could they no longer enter the garden of Eden? So much for being as God.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #170 - May 15, 2009, 06:41 PM

    Quote from: Shaneequa
    He cannot lie...but he can send lying demons.

    Hell, this is almost sig-worthy.  Cheesy


    You know the devil and his minions can do nothing without God's permission, right? We learn this from the book of Job. It is a very interesting book....and reassuring as well.

    Also, God promises truth to those that seek truth and love the truth...or even if they don't know if they will love the truth but still want to know what it is...but if we insist on  having our ears tickled....and God has sent messengers of truth...he will eventually send  the deception a person is craving...especially if that person kills the prophets God sends...or is planning on killing them later.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #171 - May 15, 2009, 06:53 PM

    Shaneequa, read Hassan's third quote.

    If your going to say "I know it says God deceives but really it means he will send some demons to deceive", then couldn't the same be said of the Qur'anic God?

    Nevertheless, somebody who sends somebody to do something is also responsible for that person's actions.

    Can you imagine a Palestinian crying out to an Israeli war minister who is visiting the country, "You murderer! You murdered my whole family!" and the minister saying, "I beg your pardon?! Get your facts right, I didn't kill them, some Israeli soldiers killed them... I just sent them."

    He's either stupid or taking the piss, right?


    The difference is God will finally give people what they want. Look at Oprah. She rejected the truth that she learned growing up...and after insisting on having her ears tickled, God sent her Deeprok Choprah and other agents of lies to tell her what she wants to hear...and to lead millions of silly women astray. The bible says they are silly because they are so willing to fall for these lying seductions.

    People that continually reject truth become silly people. I have a neighbor like that. She's always having me look up Oprah and other things for her latest guests' books...and snail-mail addresses. And she has ordered "miracle" trinkets from a guy named Peter Popoff. Yet she want absolutely nothing to do with the truth...and that is why she has become silly.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #172 - May 15, 2009, 06:58 PM

    There is hell. And God is all-powerful....but he is not a man that he should lie. If your god can lie, that disqualifies him from being God.


    I actually agree - the God of Islam is quite immoral.

    But so is the God of the Bible.

    I could re-phrase your statement as:

    "If your God can order the killing of babies that disqualifies him from being God."

    How do you manage to dismiss one immoral God and yet believe in another?





    I'm sorry...but they were Nephilim. That's why I need to find a PDF book of Enoch for you. Even so, there is something in me that feels bad for these offspring. They never asked to be what they are.


    It doesn't matter how you spin it - your God is immoral - he kills babies.

    Or if you want to argue they were evil - then he creates evil people and then kills them for being the way he created them.

    Your God is not only immoral but he is insane.


    I know. It is nearly (if not completely) impossible for humans like us to understand how something like this could be just. Yet, I know it is my own fallen nature that doesn't get it.
    Quote
    I guess that's why anyone who takes the Bible literally is off their rocker.


    I can see how it looks that way.







    I thought you were a young earth creationist. Doesn't that mean you take the Bible literally? sorry I thought you wrote the quote. I'm not wearing my glasses because it's caused a skin irritation.

    And how do you know that it is you who misunderstands? How did you arrive at such a conclusion? If you say "faith" then how did you arrive at the conclusion that you should have "faith"?




    No. It was basically YEC 101 stuff. That was enough for me.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #173 - May 15, 2009, 07:07 PM

    Shaneequa, read Hassan's third quote.

    If your going to say "I know it says God deceives but really it means he will send some demons to deceive", then couldn't the same be said of the Qur'anic God?

    Nevertheless, somebody who sends somebody to do something is also responsible for that person's actions.

    Can you imagine a Palestinian crying out to an Israeli war minister who is visiting the country, "You murderer! You murdered my whole family!" and the minister saying, "I beg your pardon?! Get your facts right, I didn't kill them, some Israeli soldiers killed them... I just sent them."

    He's either stupid or taking the piss, right?


    The difference is God will finally give people what they want. Look at Oprah. She rejected the truth that she learned growing up...and after insisting on having her ears tickled, God sent her Deeprok Choprah and other agents of lies to tell her what she wants to hear...and to lead millions of silly women astray. The bible says they are silly because they are so willing to fall for these lying seductions.

    People that continually reject truth become silly people. I have a neighbor like that. She's always having me look up Oprah and other things for her latest guests' books...and snail-mail addresses. And she has ordered "miracle" trinkets from a guy named Peter Popoff. Yet she want absolutely nothing to do with the truth...and that is why she has become silly.


    Ok, I'm not sure I understood you correctly but I think what your ultimately saying is that some people ask to be deceived, so God deceives them....

    But I thought deceiving was wrong?

    If somebody asks me to kill them for whatever reason and I do, does that mean I'm not a murderer because I just gave somebody what they wanted?

    Either way, are you saying Oprah wanted to be deceived? If so, what makes you think this?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #174 - May 15, 2009, 07:36 PM

    Who said God can lie?

    You assume too much.




    God CANNOT lie....but Allah CAN. He admitted it. He said he is the greatest of liars (deceivers). So, how one believe ANYTHING he says? What else is he lying about? Paradise? He has no such place as paradise. But God has a place appointed for him...I'm  sure it is a place God created specifically for the "best of liars".


    It doesn't say "Best of liars" actually - but I agree that God seems to have no problem in deceiving in the Qur'an.

    And why not - he also deceives people in the Bible.

    Of course you will have some stupid explanation - just as Muslims have some stupid explanation for their bullshit.

    The blindness and hypocrisy of all religios nuts like you, really pisses me off - whether they be Muslims or Christians.

    You both believe in bullshit yet you mock the other persons bullshit.

    1 Kings 22:23
    Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
    2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
    Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
    Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
    Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
    2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.



    God can't lie...but he will send demons to those that continually insist on being deceived. The king hated Ezekiel for always telling the truth....and the truth hurt. After begging Ezekiel to say something nice, God finally granted the King his wish and sent a lying spirit. 

    There is a time God is going to send a strong delusion...because have love of the truth. He cannot lie...but he can send lying demons.


    lol... and Muslims will say that God is simply inspiring his servants to defeat the evil ones.

    You see Shaneequa - everyone can explain things to suit themselves.

    Oh... I forgot... but of course your explanations are right and theirs is wrong Wink
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #175 - May 15, 2009, 07:55 PM

    Who said God can lie?

    You assume too much.




    God CANNOT lie....but Allah CAN. He admitted it. He said he is the greatest of liars (deceivers). So, how one believe ANYTHING he says? What else is he lying about? Paradise? He has no such place as paradise. But God has a place appointed for him...I'm  sure it is a place God created specifically for the "best of liars".


    It doesn't say "Best of liars" actually - but I agree that God seems to have no problem in deceiving in the Qur'an.

    And why not - he also deceives people in the Bible.

    Of course you will have some stupid explanation - just as Muslims have some stupid explanation for their bullshit.

    The blindness and hypocrisy of all religios nuts like you, really pisses me off - whether they be Muslims or Christians.

    You both believe in bullshit yet you mock the other persons bullshit.

    1 Kings 22:23
    Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
    2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
    Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
    Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
    Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
    2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.



    God can't lie...but he will send demons to those that continually insist on being deceived. The king hated Ezekiel for always telling the truth....and the truth hurt. After begging Ezekiel to say something nice, God finally granted the King his wish and sent a lying spirit. 

    There is a time God is going to send a strong delusion...because have love of the truth. He cannot lie...but he can send lying demons.


    lol... and Muslims will say that God is simply inspiring his servants to defeat the evil ones.

    You see Shaneequa - everyone can explain things to suit themselves.

    Oh... I forgot... but of course your explanations are right and theirs is wrong Wink


    God will not send deceiving spirits to people that don't want to be deceived...but if one keeps turning away his prophets (there are no prophets today) or people that are trying to tell them the truth...God will eventually say, "My Spirit will no longer strive with you...if you want deception, I will send you deception....have it your way".
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #176 - May 15, 2009, 08:00 PM

    Shaneequa, read Hassan's third quote.

    If your going to say "I know it says God deceives but really it means he will send some demons to deceive", then couldn't the same be said of the Qur'anic God?

    Nevertheless, somebody who sends somebody to do something is also responsible for that person's actions.

    Can you imagine a Palestinian crying out to an Israeli war minister who is visiting the country, "You murderer! You murdered my whole family!" and the minister saying, "I beg your pardon?! Get your facts right, I didn't kill them, some Israeli soldiers killed them... I just sent them."

    He's either stupid or taking the piss, right?


    The difference is God will finally give people what they want. Look at Oprah. She rejected the truth that she learned growing up...and after insisting on having her ears tickled, God sent her Deeprok Choprah and other agents of lies to tell her what she wants to hear...and to lead millions of silly women astray. The bible says they are silly because they are so willing to fall for these lying seductions.

    People that continually reject truth become silly people. I have a neighbor like that. She's always having me look up Oprah and other things for her latest guests' books...and snail-mail addresses. And she has ordered "miracle" trinkets from a guy named Peter Popoff. Yet she want absolutely nothing to do with the truth...and that is why she has become silly.


    Ok, I'm not sure I understood you correctly but I think what your ultimately saying is that some people ask to be deceived, so God deceives them....

    But I thought deceiving was wrong?

    If somebody asks me to kill them for whatever reason and I do, does that mean I'm not a murderer because I just gave somebody what they wanted?

    Either way, are you saying Oprah wanted to be deceived? If so, what makes you think this?


    Oprah knew the scriptures since she was a little child....as she grew up in a Baptist family and was raised in a Baptist Church. Somewhere along the line she rejected the truth....and kept on rejecting the truth until God decided to let her have it her way.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #177 - May 15, 2009, 08:06 PM

    And what is "her way"? Did she want to be deceived? If so, what makes you think this?

    However, even if she did want to be deceived, does that mean God was justified in deceiving her?

    If I murdered somebody who wanted me to kill them, would my murder be justified because they wanted me to do it?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #178 - May 15, 2009, 08:11 PM

    Man, I've had it with the truth rejectors. To hell with them.

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: Absurd Doubts
     Reply #179 - May 15, 2009, 08:14 PM

    And what is "her way"? Did she want to be deceived? If so, what makes you think this?

    However, even if she did want to be deceived, does that mean God was justified in deceiving her?

    If I murdered somebody who wanted me to kill them, would my murder be justified because they wanted me to do it?


    To whom much is given, much is required. Oprah knew the truth from a little child...and she despised it. Now she is surrounding with deceiving ear-ticklers...and exposing her millions of viewers with these same ear-ticklers....and it's not for lack of exposure to truth, but that she was given the truth and despised it.

    To answer your second question, you are not God.
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