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 Topic: Punished for being logical

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Punished for being logical
     OP - May 15, 2009, 04:52 PM
    I'm currently reading the Quran and just came across this verse-
    Quote
    (2:55) Remember when you said, "O Moses, we are not going to believe you until we see with our own eyes Allah (talking to you)". At that very time a thunderbolt struck you while you were looking on and you fell lifeless. (2:56) Then We raised you to life so that you might become grateful for this favour.*71

    *71. The incident referred to here is the following. When Moses went to the mountain he had been ordered to bring with him seventy elders of Israel. Later, when God bestowed upon Moses the Book and the Criterion, he presented them to the people. Some mischief-makers, according to the Qur'an, began to complain that they could not believe in something just because Moses claimed that God had spoken to him. This invited the wrath of God and they were punished. The Old Testament, however, has the following account:
    'And they saw the God of Israel and there was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness. And he did not lay his hand on the chief men of the people of Israel; they beheld God, and ate and drank' (Exodus 24: 10-11),
    Interestingly, it is stated later in the same book that when Moses requested God to show him His glory, God rejected the request and said: 'You cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live'. (See Exodus 33: 18-23)

    The bit below the bolded quote is the commentary. I love how God punishes them because they did not believe in some random man claiming God talked to him Cheesy
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #1 - May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #2 - May 15, 2009, 04:57 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    Sorry tut, how about you explain to me your obviously superior definition of logic...
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #3 - May 15, 2009, 05:08 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 15, 2009, 04:57 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    Sorry tut, how about you explain to me your obviously superior definition of logic...


    They were being sceptical, two different concepts.

    "Logic, too, also rests on assumptions that do not correspond to anything in the real world."- Nietzsche
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #4 - May 15, 2009, 05:13 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 05:08 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 15, 2009, 04:57 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    Sorry tut, how about you explain to me your obviously superior definition of logic...


    They were being sceptical, two different concepts.

    "Logic, too, also rests on assumptions that do not correspond to anything in the real world."- Nietzsche

    They made a LOGICAL decision to be sceptical tut.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #5 - May 15, 2009, 05:16 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 15, 2009, 05:13 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 05:08 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 15, 2009, 04:57 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    Sorry tut, how about you explain to me your obviously superior definition of logic...


    They were being sceptical, two different concepts.

    "Logic, too, also rests on assumptions that do not correspond to anything in the real world."- Nietzsche

    They made a LOGICAL decision to be sceptical tut.


    You know what just forget it.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #6 - May 15, 2009, 10:50 PM
    I'm not in the mood to get into a silly semantics war. It's pointless.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #7 - May 15, 2009, 11:32 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 05:16 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 15, 2009, 05:13 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 05:08 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on May 15, 2009, 04:57 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    Sorry tut, how about you explain to me your obviously superior definition of logic...


    They were being sceptical, two different concepts.

    "Logic, too, also rests on assumptions that do not correspond to anything in the real world."- Nietzsche

    They made a LOGICAL decision to be sceptical tut.


    You know what just forget it.


    Is that because Peruvian just handed you your ass?
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #8 - May 16, 2009, 05:32 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    You make no sense.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #9 - May 16, 2009, 07:51 AM
    Quote from: Suprah on May 16, 2009, 05:32 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    You make no sense.


    LOGIC is not used to validate truth, and falsity outside a mathematical (computable) system - it measures the internal integrity and consistency of a system built upon axioms.

    Now let me sure you what I mean...

    I could say I am sitting here in the nude jerkin' off with one hand while typing with the other - since you have no means of verifying the truth of this statement - you use logic to check the integrity of my statement, since it is plausible and logically consistent statement. That is only as far as you can go using LOGIC. You still don't know if in reality I am nude or jerkin off. So, using logic you have verified my statement to be logically sound, but the conclusion you come to is, INCOMPLETE, you've not reached the TRUTH.   
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #10 - May 16, 2009, 08:26 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 16, 2009, 07:51 AM
    Quote from: Suprah on May 16, 2009, 05:32 AM
    Quote from: King Tut on May 15, 2009, 04:55 PM
    Can we drop using LOGIC in trying to verify abstract concepts? It just makes you look rather stupid when you don't actually know what logic is.

    You make no sense.


    LOGIC is not used to validate truth, and falsity outside a mathematical (computable) system - it measures the internal integrity and consistency of a system built upon axioms.

    Now let me sure you what I mean...

    I could say I am sitting here in the nude jerkin' off with one hand while typing with the other - since you have no means of verifying the truth of this statement - you use logic to check the integrity of my statement, since it is plausible and logically consistent statement. That is only as far as you can go using LOGIC. You still don't know if in reality I am nude or jerkin off. So, using logic you have verified my statement to be logically sound, but the conclusion you come to is, INCOMPLETE, you've not reached the TRUTH.   


    But can't logic and truth be deemed two different concepts? Logic does not necessarily have to lead to truth.
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #11 - May 16, 2009, 08:34 AM
    They are two different concepts, but you can't use logic to get at truth which is outside the axioms it is based on.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #12 - May 16, 2009, 08:50 AM
    This thread is about how Yahweh/Allah put those people to death when they questioned Moses' claims of seeing God as stated in the Abrahamic books, specifically the Quran in this case.

    Debating what is Logic/Reason is another field whatsoever, and that is rather irrelevant to this thread.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #13 - May 16, 2009, 08:53 AM
    Peru, that translation and commentary is Yusuf Ali?
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #14 - May 16, 2009, 09:44 AM
    Quote from: Suprah on May 16, 2009, 08:50 AM
    This thread is about how Yahweh/Allah put those people to death when they questioned Moses' claims of seeing God as stated in the Abrahamic books, specifically the Quran in this case.

    Debating what is Logic/Reason is another field whatsoever, and that is rather irrelevant to this thread.


    They were sceptical.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Punished for being logical
     Reply #15 - May 16, 2009, 11:30 AM
    Tut, take it elsewhere, you are going offtopic.
    Quote from: awais on May 16, 2009, 08:53 AM
    Peru, that translation and commentary is Yusuf Ali?

    Don't think so, I got it off here- http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php
    According to wiki the author is Sayyid Abul A?la Maududi and the translator is Zafar Ishaq Ansari.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »