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Theme Changer

 Topic: History

 (Read 12890 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • History
     OP - May 20, 2009, 04:30 PM

    Shalom/Salaam.  Smiley

    Dodi/Spike (from islamfactor.org , where I am a Moderator) said my old friend (the mensch) Cosmicdancer/Peace was a Member here and says "Hi."
    "Hi" in return.

    Respectfully,
    History

    "You shall love your fellow as yourself."--Vayikrah 19:18

    "Justice, justice shall you pursue"--Devarim 16:20
  • Re: History
     Reply #1 - May 20, 2009, 04:44 PM

    We've heard a lot about you - are you the guy referred to in these threads?

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4385.msg112755#msg112755
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=5372.msg138058#msg138058

    Tell those of us who do not know you a little bit about yourself, and also why you would want to moderate on an Islamic forum - dont their views annoy you?  Have you been here before and/or Sina's site, and what do you think of them?

    P.S I hope you intend to stick around..


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: History
     Reply #2 - May 20, 2009, 04:49 PM

    OMG, History, WELCOME! Shalom! Salam! and Hola!  Afro

    It is sooo good to see you (in a virtual sense lol) - I always wanted to say how much you impressed me back in the day on ummah.com. Your patience in the face of so much abuse was an inspiration to me.

    I have only realised after leaving ummah how much you influenced me. As you know I was always arguing for peace and moderation - but I remember I still used to think Zionists were evil and out to take over the world blah blah blah... but it was you that first got me to question that view and see things differently. The fact that you never showed any hate, hostility or anger towards Muslims - on the contrary you always showed love and concern - while staunchly holding your position. You explained what Zionism meant to you and I suddenly realised it was no different than the aspirations of any person to have their own homeland. (btw I don't want anyone to turn this thread into an Israel/Palestine debate as they never get anywhere) but I just want to say you made me see beyond my own perspective... and you did that by simply showing love, respect, empathy, politeness, courteousness, sensitivity etc...

    Thank you! 

    And thank you for popping in - I hope you like the place and will stay (or at least visit us from time to time.)

    Your friend,

    Hassan (aka Peace aka cosmicdancer)
  • Re: History
     Reply #3 - May 20, 2009, 04:51 PM

    Welcome History.   Smiley  I always liked reading your posts too, although I was only a lurker. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: History
     Reply #4 - May 20, 2009, 04:56 PM

    We've heard a lot about you - are you the guy referred to in these threads?

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4385.msg112755#msg112755
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=5372.msg138058#msg138058

    Tell those of us who do not know you a little bit about yourself, and also why you would want to moderate on an Islamic forum - dont their views annoy you?  Have you been here before and/or Sina's site, and what do you think of them?

    P.S I hope you intend to stick around..




    History is a man of faith - the sort of faith I can respect and live with. Whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim or whatever - there are very many people of faith who are thoroughly decent and wonderful people and their faith does them a great deal of good.

    @History - I should warn you that most people here are very much against religion as a whole - most are Atheist or Agnostic (I consider myself Agnostic/Deist) - and I think we forget that religion is not ALL bad and we also forget that many religious people are excellent examples of humanity.

    (Maybe it's our anger at feeling betrayed by Islam - but ur presence here reminded me that perhaps I should go easier on religion  grin12 )
  • Re: History
     Reply #5 - May 20, 2009, 05:05 PM

    I just want to say you made me see beyond my own perspective... and you did that by simply showing love, respect, empathy, politeness, courteousness, sensitivity etc...

    Thank you!  Afro


    BTW I am often accused of being too PC/sensitive towards Muslims feelings. Well that's fine - because frankly that's how I am and I'd rather take a leaf out of History's book than those who think shooting volleys of abuse at Muslims is the best way to reach them.
  • Re: History
     Reply #6 - May 20, 2009, 06:01 PM

    Hi, heard much about you. Welcome to the forum.  Afro
  • Re: History
     Reply #7 - May 20, 2009, 06:06 PM

    I agree with Hassan, you have to be rough and tough with the ones that are rough and tough such as the Pakistani Taliban, but when it comes to ordinary Muslims on the Internet, you need to be a little sensitive. I've always said polarization does not work, hence why I don't support folks like Ayan remember my family and friends are Muslims, Islam cannot be used a pretext to abuse Muslims and insult them. At the end of the for me personally, Sufi Muslims are good human beings even though they claim to follow Islam.
  • Re: History
     Reply #8 - May 20, 2009, 06:36 PM

    Thank you for your post, IsLame.

    That "guy" doesn't seem quite like the History I know.
    The one I know has plenty of human faults and may even fart in public if he laughs too hard (part of getting older, I guess).
    And he can have a big head at times...hmm..."Saint History"...not bad (though I think I'd prefer "Santa History"  Smiley ).  More cuddly and cheerful.  Those Christian saints always looked so serious...and often came to violent ends......whoa!....I think just simple ol' History will suffice for me.
    I'n no tzaddik (i.e. kinda of a Jewish "saint") but we all strive to be.
    Quote
    Tell those of us who do not know you a little bit about yourself,

    Other than the preceding, I'm a later middle-aged Jew, living and practicing ialong the coast of Maine in the USA.  I have a wonderful wife from Brooklyn (who is a great cook, particularly a great chicken soup, with  matzah balls of course), and a twenty year old beautiful daughter who is a talented jazz musician in the middle of her college education, and a cat named Ezra (Ezra Katz... nu?).  I do believe in G-d.  And I do take inspiration, guidance, and comfort from His Teachings for ethical human behavior.  I love history, particularly Jewish history, especially where it overlaps with other peoples and faiths.  My family is descended from immigrants to America, survivors of the Russian pogroms and of the Holocaust. I am a radiologist by profession, and a life-long student. I served in the US military as a physician in returned for my medical education.  I also love books, especially good science fiction and fantasy (can you spell g-e-e-k), and movies/tv of similar genre.  I teach on occassion,  I believe children are our greatest gifts and responsibility--and joy.
    Quote
    and also why you would want to moderate on an Islamic forum - dont their views annoy you?  Have you been here before and/or Sina's site, and what do you think of them?

    I'm there because I was invited--and was searching for a new Muslim site to frequent (Muslims are the "new" rage--literally and figuretively--since 9-11, and I have a knowledge gap needing filling on Muslims and Islam and books can only teach you so much) .  I Moderate because I was asked.  Islamfactor.org, unlike other Muslim sites I've visited, is unique in its multifaith respect and appreciation and inclusiveness--at least since I've been a Member.  It is what I most sought in a Muslim site.  What Ummah.com attempted (under their administrator, Sajid, who Ilike and respect) but ultimately failed to become.  Check us out, sometime.
    I do not know "Sina."
    Quote
    P.S I hope you intend to stick around..

    I'll visit when I can.
    Looking over the Forum/Subforums, there is not much in the "Judaism"/"History (the subject, not me--of which there is too much, in my humble opinion  Wink)" categories for me to contribute, but I'll read over various threads and post when inspired.
    Thank you (and Hassanand Cheetah)  for the kind welcome.

    Respectfully,
    History

    "You shall love your fellow as yourself."--Vayikrah 19:18

    "Justice, justice shall you pursue"--Devarim 16:20
  • Re: History
     Reply #9 - May 20, 2009, 06:50 PM

    History,
    Welcome  Smiley
    Your post sounds very interesting.

    One thing I like about Judaism is there is no eternal torment which I personally feel very opposite of the nature of the God if he exists.
  • Re: History
     Reply #10 - May 20, 2009, 07:16 PM

    I also love books, especially good science fiction and fantasy (can you spell g-e-e-k), and movies/tv of similar genre.


    Whoohoo, same here.  I am a sci fi and fantasy book nut, I spend way too much time and money on it, same with tv/movies in that genre. 

    Welcome to the forum.  Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: History
     Reply #11 - May 20, 2009, 07:21 PM

    never heard of ya.

    Welcome anyway

    Don't know how tight the Jews in Maine are, but I do know a Ben Burk in Portland.

    Bgrin12B

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: History
     Reply #12 - May 20, 2009, 07:28 PM

    Good to hear you will visit us periodically, I'd be interested to hear more about your angle on a range of topical issues as a practicising theist with a background in science.

    I won't bore you with the details, but I'm curious - no doubt you have heard them countless times before, but what is your interpratation of Islam's attitudes towards Jews in the Quran and particularly the Hadith?  

    Do you believe religion should be interpreted as it was intended, or adapted to suit the current landscape?  

    Who was Mohammed?

    a) prophet
    b) saint
    c) ordinary man
    d) deluded
    e) conman
    f) other, please specify

    Also are you sure there is a God, or do you accept it could all be hogwash?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: History
     Reply #13 - May 20, 2009, 07:32 PM

    I also love books, especially good science fiction and fantasy (can you spell g-e-e-k), and movies/tv of similar genre.


    Whoohoo, same here.  I am a sci fi and fantasy book nut, I spend way too much time and money on it, same with tv/movies in that genre. 

    Welcome to the forum.  Smiley


    Ya;ll need to get more factual books up in your system. I hate fantasy, can't relate to it.
  • Re: History
     Reply #14 - May 20, 2009, 07:44 PM


    Ya;ll need to get more factual books up in your system. I hate fantasy, can't relate to it.


    And yet you live in a constant state of it.  Cheesy  Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: History
     Reply #15 - May 20, 2009, 09:26 PM

    Shalom/Salaam.  Smiley

    Dodi/Spike (from islamfactor.org , where I am a Moderator) said my old friend (the mensch) Cosmicdancer/Peace was a Member here and says "Hi."
    "Hi" in return.

    Respectfully,
    History


    Hello History! I am sorry I did not see this thread, I already welcomed you in another post but anyways please accept my warmest hellos Smiley

     signwelcome

    ...
  • Re: History
     Reply #16 - May 20, 2009, 10:59 PM


    Ya;ll need to get more factual books up in your system. I hate fantasy, can't relate to it.


    And yet you live in a constant state of it.  Cheesy  Tongue


    Living it and reading it are two different things... I am not sure about my type any more.
  • Re: History
     Reply #17 - May 20, 2009, 11:23 PM

    Grin

    Hi History. I see you've met some of the inmates already. We're mostly harmless, if a bit obstreperous at times. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: History
     Reply #18 - May 21, 2009, 09:41 AM

    Welcome History Smiley
  • Re: History
     Reply #19 - May 21, 2009, 02:19 PM

    Shalom/Salaam.  Smiley

    Dodi/Spike (from islamfactor.org , where I am a Moderator) said my old friend (the mensch) Cosmicdancer/Peace was a Member here and says "Hi."
    "Hi" in return.

    Respectfully,
    History


    Hello History,

    I remember you quite well from Ummah.com and I too was impressed by your stoicism (sometimes in the face of extreme provocation) and the wisdom you displayed and tried to impart over there. 

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: History
     Reply #20 - May 21, 2009, 06:50 PM

    Hello History

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: History
     Reply #21 - May 21, 2009, 08:28 PM

    Thanks for your post.
    Good to hear you will visit us periodically, I'd be interested to hear more about your angle on a range of topical issues as a practicising theist with a background in science.

    Questions are always welcome.
    All answers are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, and understandings of allother Jews.
    Quote
    I won't bore you with the details, but I'm curious - no doubt you have heard them countless times before, but what is your interpratation of Islam's attitudes towards Jews in the Quran and particularly the Hadith?  

    To be fair, I cannot say I have read or seen all comments regarding Jews and Judaism in the Hadiths.
    Those I have read and been shown from the Quran and Hadiths have mostly been concerning--in their generalizations, negativity, and lack of Muslim self-assessment (what is claimed as failings of "Jews" is unrecognized as equally true of Muslims, and all hman beings).
    Quote
    Do you believe religion should be interpreted as it was intended, or adapted to suit the current landscape?  

    I do not see a difference.  The essence of G-d's Teachings is for ethical and righteous human behavior.  This is what makes these Teachings eternal.  Additionally, if one understands the only way to correctly interpret His Word is as per Mishlei (Proverbs) 3:17,  "Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace," then any interpretation that appears contrary to this need be accepted as misinterpreted.  Jews, generally speaking, are not Biblical literalists, and we are taught the Spirit of the Law trumps the letter of the law.  We also believe that G-d's Word is not also Eternal, but it is a Living Word.  Thus it contains the answers to all questions (in regard to appropriate human behavior) for every circumstance that confronts each successive generation.  As we mature (individually and a species)  intellectually and, we hope, spiritually and ethically, as we gain greater knowledge of His universe, we appreciate fuller and deeper meanings in His Word.
    Quote
    Who was Mohammed?

    a) prophet
    b) saint
    c) ordinary man
    d) deluded
    e) conman
    f) other, please specify

    All of the above--depending on who you ask, and depending on what circumstances.
    I would answer the same for any human being.
    But I am sure you do not what such a glib answer.
    However true.
    Personally, I believe Mohammed was a charismatic man and a brilliant military strategist.  He found inspiration from the monotheism of Jews and Christians.  He was not a "Prophet" per Jewish definition of the term, nor a "saint" per the Christian one.  He had visions, we are told, and (speaking as a physician) I wonder if he suffered from epilepsy.  He was a fellow man.  And, thus shared our failings.  He gained power over others and, at times, this inspired him to do good and, at times, to do evil--at least from my perspective. 
    Quote
    Also are you sure there is a God, or do you accept it could all be hogwash?

    I've decided, for me, I believe G-d exists.
    And whenever I have had doubts in my life, I find in assuming He exists, my Life has greater meaning, purpose, and understanding.
    I respect those who may hold differing opinions--particularly if it similar provides them the same inspiration to live a life that is kind, compassionate, and caring toward others.
    Interestingly, the older I get, the stronger my belief in G-d, Blessed be His Name.

    Respectfully,
    History

    "You shall love your fellow as yourself."--Vayikrah 19:18

    "Justice, justice shall you pursue"--Devarim 16:20
  • Re: History
     Reply #22 - May 21, 2009, 08:36 PM

    Ya;ll need to get more factual books up in your system. I hate fantasy, can't relate to it.

    I read plenty of "factual" books, boyh by profession and interest as a man of science and history.

    I find the "history" of imaginary worlds, epitomized in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings fascinating and enthralling.  I also appreciate, from my own Jewish ethnic heritage and my university training in English literacy and writing, that often more can be taught about human nature and life through story rather than didactic lecture.  It is more often in "fiction" that people can best appreciate the wonder and lessons pf real life.

    Respectfully,
    History

    "You shall love your fellow as yourself."--Vayikrah 19:18

    "Justice, justice shall you pursue"--Devarim 16:20
  • Re: History
     Reply #23 - May 21, 2009, 08:38 PM

    never heard of ya.

    Welcome anyway

    Don't know how tight the Jews in Maine are, but I do know a Ben Burk in Portland.

    Bgrin12B

    Do you mean "Burke"?

    "You shall love your fellow as yourself."--Vayikrah 19:18

    "Justice, justice shall you pursue"--Devarim 16:20
  • Re: History
     Reply #24 - May 21, 2009, 08:40 PM

    Hello History,

    I remember you quite well from Ummah.com and I too was impressed by your stoicism (sometimes in the face of extreme provocation) and the wisdom you displayed and tried to impart over there. 

    Thank you and everyone for the warm welcome.

    Respectfully,
    History

    "You shall love your fellow as yourself."--Vayikrah 19:18

    "Justice, justice shall you pursue"--Devarim 16:20
  • Re: History
     Reply #25 - May 21, 2009, 08:40 PM

    Personally, I believe Mohammed was a charismatic man and a brilliant military strategist.  He found inspiration from the monotheism of Jews and Christians.  He was not a "Prophet" per Jewish definition of the term, nor a "saint" per the Christian one.  He had visions, we are told, and (speaking as a physician) I wonder if he suffered from epilepsy.  He was a fellow man.  And, thus shared our failings.  He gained power over others and, at times, this inspired him to do good and, at times, to do evil--at least from my perspective.


    An excellent assessment of Muhammad  Afro
  • Re: History
     Reply #26 - May 21, 2009, 09:50 PM

    Quote
    I won't bore you with the details, but I'm curious - no doubt you have heard them countless times before, but what is your interpratation of Islam's attitudes towards Jews in the Quran and particularly the Hadith?

     
    To be fair, I cannot say I have read or seen all comments regarding Jews and Judaism in the Hadiths.
    Those I have read and been shown from the Quran and Hadiths have mostly been concerning--in their generalizations, negativity, and lack of Muslim self-assessment (what is claimed as failings of "Jews" is unrecognized as equally true of Muslims, and all hman beings).


    Quotes such as these:

    "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." Sura (5:51) -

    Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.  (Book 026, Number 5389)

    "As you can clearly see the Jews are cursed, till the end of time, Allah tried to help them?:Surah V Ayat 70


    What do you have to say about Islam's attitudes towards Jews - do you accept them for what they are (imo racist) or something else?  

    Quote
    He gained power over others and, at times, this inspired him to do good and, at times, to do evil--at least from my perspective.  

     
    Can you bullet point what good things you think he achieved apart from freeing the slaves?

    Quote
    Also are you sure there is a God, or do you accept it could all be hogwash?

    I've decided, for me, I believe G-d exists.
    And whenever I have had doubts in my life, I find in assuming He exists, my Life has greater meaning, purpose, and understanding.
    I respect those who may hold differing opinions--particularly if it similar provides them the same inspiration to live a life that is kind, compassionate, and caring toward others.
    Interestingly, the older I get, the stronger my belief in G-d, Blessed be His Name.


    Do you appreciate why 2 out 3 reasons you gave bear little relevence to whether God exists - just because it provides a greater meaning and purpose to your life, bears little relevence to the question that he exists, or takes the form that you believe to be true?  I am not trying to convert you, just trying to get to the backbone behind your belief.

    Do you believe in Darwins interpretation of evolution.  Do you ever wonder which religion you would have followed had your parents not been Jewish?  Its a hypothetical question, but had your parents been Muslim what would you believe now?

    Quote
    Interestingly, the older I get, the stronger my belief in G-d, Blessed be His Name.


    What's G-d?


    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: History
     Reply #27 - May 21, 2009, 09:58 PM


    Can you bullet point what good things you think he achieved apart from abolishing slavery?



    Actually, he didn't abolish slavery.
  • Re: History
     Reply #28 - May 21, 2009, 10:00 PM


    Can you bullet point what good things you think he achieved apart from abolishing slavery?



    Actually, he didn't abolish slavery.

    didnt he free the slaves?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: History
     Reply #29 - May 21, 2009, 10:06 PM


    Can you bullet point what good things you think he achieved apart from abolishing slavery?



    Actually, he didn't abolish slavery.

    didnt he free the slaves?


    He encouraged the freeing of slaves, but he didn't abolish it.

    The Qur'an clearly accepts it.
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »