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Theme Changer

 Topic: People are fucking assholes!

 (Read 12680 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • People are fucking assholes!
     OP - May 26, 2009, 12:31 PM

    This is a post by a muslim on the issue of sex-

    Quote
    Having sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex is not the same as rape. Rape is having sex with someone without their consent. It is possible to consent to having sex even if you don't want to have sex.


     finmad finmad finmad finmad finmad finmad

    I literally want to go over to his house and beat him up with a bloody bat!!! How dare he say that isn't rape!!!!  finmad finmad finmad He also said in another post that a partner would do this to make the other happy! finmad But we should just ignore the one who doesn't want sex right? Afterall it's all about sex and 72 virgins! AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!! This has made me so pissed off!!!! And I just know he is going to reply with some pathetic apologetic crap and making it out as thought it's not that big a deal or that I misinterpreted him finmad Fuck him and everyone who thinks like him. I hope he never gets married!! finmad

     Flaming mad Flaming mad Flaming mad Flaming mad Flaming mad


    You can read the conversation here if you want to-
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=273519&page=449

    I replied to him (under the alias of Darkened Angel).
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #1 - May 26, 2009, 12:34 PM

    I bet he already is married to some 6 year old... Sick pathetic loser...

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExMuslims
    Council of Ex-Muslims of the Netherlands will be back!

    Never doubt that a small group of commited people can change te world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #2 - May 26, 2009, 12:36 PM

    What an idiot.  finmad

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #3 - May 26, 2009, 02:39 PM

    This is so infuriating! finmad
    Berbs had also heard a Muslim say something of this sort, if I'm not mistaken, that Muhammad & the early Muslims needed to sleep with their right hand possessions as those  women needed sex too! Grin

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #4 - May 26, 2009, 02:42 PM

    This is so infuriating! finmad
    Berbs had also heard a Muslim say something of this sort, if I'm not mistaken, that Muhammad & the early Muslims needed to sleep with their right hand possessions as those  women needed sex too! Grin


    Yep, I can't believe anybody can truly think that way and yet I've stumbled across dickheads who say that exact same thing.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #5 - May 26, 2009, 02:45 PM

    He replied and still doesn't feel it's rape! I've had to clarify to him that consent by coercion does not count as consent! Why on earth do I have to clarify that to anybody?!! It should be a given!
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #6 - May 26, 2009, 02:46 PM

    That guy kind of has a point, sometimes women don't want to have sex with you but agree to have sex with you for other reasons, such as for a job promotion, or to make money such as prostitution. Sex is not the only reason women have sex, it could be other reasons, but they agree to it, as they are getting a gain in some other way.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #7 - May 26, 2009, 02:48 PM

    That guy kind of has a point, sometimes women don't want to have sex with you but agree to have sex with you for other reasons, such as for a job promotion, or to make money such as prostitution. Sex is not the only reason women have sex, it could be other reasons, but they agree to it, as they are getting a gain in some other way.

    We're talking about the fact that in marriage a women has no right to say no to sex. There is no possible gain in that, her voice is ignored by her own partner. Imagine how that must feel!
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #8 - May 26, 2009, 02:55 PM

    That guy kind of has a point, sometimes women don't want to have sex with you but agree to have sex with you for other reasons, such as for a job promotion, or to make money such as prostitution. Sex is not the only reason women have sex, it could be other reasons, but they agree to it, as they are getting a gain in some other way.

    We're talking about the fact that in marriage a women has no right to say no to sex. There is no possible gain in that, her voice is ignored by her own partner. Imagine how that must feel!


    But, in Islamic marriage its a nikah! nikah means contact of sexual intercourse. Her consent to have sex is given when she signs to the nikah.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #9 - May 26, 2009, 03:00 PM

    Ref:

    Kitab (Book of) Al Nikah. Commentary of Imam Ahmed Ben Ali Ben Hagar Al Askalani, Beirut, Dar Al Balagha, 1986

    Linguistically, ?Nikah? means embracing or penetrating. When it is pronounced ?Nokh? it refers to a woman?s vagina. It is mainly used in the context of ?sexual intercourse.? When it was used in reference to marriage it is because sex is a necessity in marriage. Al Fassi said,?If someone says a certain man (N) a certain woman, it means he married her, and if he says a man (N) his wife, it means he has sexual intercourse with her.? The word can also be used metaphorically as with expressions: the rain (N) the ground, or, the sleep (N) the eyes, or, the seed (N) the soil, or, the pebble (N) the camel?s hoof. When it was used in the context of marriage it is because sexual intercourse is the purpose of marriage. It is necessary in marriage to ?taste the honey? (an Islamic expression meaning literal intercourse). This is the how the word has generally been used in the Quran except in the verse that says, ?Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of (N)? Sura 4: 6. In that instance it pertains to the age of puberty. The Shafia and Hanafi schools of jurisprudence assert that the word nikah when used as a fact conveys that sexual intercourse has occurred. And when used as a figure of speech it denotes marriage. The reason for this variance is because it is offensive to mention the word ?intercourse,? so a metonymic word is used to substitute it
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #10 - May 26, 2009, 03:10 PM

    That guy kind of has a point, sometimes women don't want to have sex with you but agree to have sex with you for other reasons, such as for a job promotion, or to make money such as prostitution. Sex is not the only reason women have sex, it could be other reasons, but they agree to it, as they are getting a gain in some other way.

    We're talking about the fact that in marriage a women has no right to say no to sex. There is no possible gain in that, her voice is ignored by her own partner. Imagine how that must feel!


    But, in Islamic marriage its a nikah! nikah means contact of sexual intercourse. Her consent to have sex is given when she signs to the nikah.

    Which is something that needs to be changed. Marriage does not entitle the husband to force her into sex against her will.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #11 - May 26, 2009, 03:17 PM

    I wish the most number of people will get to read this and get a glimpse of how damaged a mind can become. This is the same mind that will turn in that same sentence and state that islam treat women like hidden jewels and stuff.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #12 - May 26, 2009, 03:39 PM

    That guy kind of has a point, sometimes women don't want to have sex with you but agree to have sex with you for other reasons, such as for a job promotion, or to make money such as prostitution. Sex is not the only reason women have sex, it could be other reasons, but they agree to it, as they are getting a gain in some other way.

    We're talking about the fact that in marriage a women has no right to say no to sex. There is no possible gain in that, her voice is ignored by her own partner. Imagine how that must feel!


    But, in Islamic marriage its a nikah! nikah means contact of sexual intercourse. Her consent to have sex is given when she signs to the nikah.

    Which is something that needs to be changed. Marriage does not entitle the husband to force her into sex against her will.


    What if she is masochist?
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #13 - May 26, 2009, 03:52 PM

    That guy kind of has a point, sometimes women don't want to have sex with you but agree to have sex with you for other reasons, such as for a job promotion, or to make money such as prostitution. Sex is not the only reason women have sex, it could be other reasons, but they agree to it, as they are getting a gain in some other way.

    We're talking about the fact that in marriage a women has no right to say no to sex. There is no possible gain in that, her voice is ignored by her own partner. Imagine how that must feel!


    But, in Islamic marriage its a nikah! nikah means contact of sexual intercourse. Her consent to have sex is given when she signs to the nikah.

    Which is something that needs to be changed. Marriage does not entitle the husband to force her into sex against her will.


    What if she is masochist?

    Masochists consent Wink They usually use safewords to indicate when something is wrong so even they can say no.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #14 - May 26, 2009, 03:58 PM

    What's the difference between not giving your consent to do something and not wanting to do something?
    I wish Muslims would stop redefining rape and just admit that they believe rape is permissable in marriage.

    And what does it say about the husband if he has to write into the contract that he can have sex with his wife whenever he wants to?

    If it is a default contract made by the state, what does it say about the state?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #15 - May 26, 2009, 04:01 PM

    Infact, what does it say about the relationship between the man and the wife that they have to have a contract between them!

    I'd like to think an Anarchy could work on a very small scale at least.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #16 - May 26, 2009, 04:04 PM

    What's the difference between not giving your consent to do something and not wanting to do something?
    I wish Muslims would stop redefining rape and just admit that they believe rape is permissable in marriage.

    And what does it say about the husband if he has to write into the contract that he can have sex with his wife whenever he wants to?

    If it is a default contract made by the state, what does it say about the state?


    Both sign to a contract to have sex, the nikah is basically giving consent to having sex. How can you sign a contract and then disregard it? it is criminal under any law.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #17 - May 26, 2009, 04:09 PM

    What's the difference between not giving your consent to do something and not wanting to do something?
    I wish Muslims would stop redefining rape and just admit that they believe rape is permissable in marriage.

    And what does it say about the husband if he has to write into the contract that he can have sex with his wife whenever he wants to?

    If it is a default contract made by the state, what does it say about the state?


    Both sign to a contract to have sex, the nikah is basically giving consent to having sex. How can you sign a contract and then disregard it? it is criminal under any law.


    But what is it doing in the contract anyway?

    It's like when I was dealing with my estate agent about a property I want to rent next year, I had a problem with something in the contract and I wanted him to change it. No one around me could understand my actions, they were like "but that's the contract!"

    No it isn't... not yet anyway. You can think about a contract and change it before you sign it. So why is this clause in the nikah contract in the first place?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #18 - May 26, 2009, 04:24 PM

    Ref:

    Kitab (Book of) Al Nikah. Commentary of Imam Ahmed Ben Ali Ben Hagar Al Askalani, Beirut, Dar Al Balagha, 1986

    Linguistically, ?Nikah? means embracing or penetrating. When it is pronounced ?Nokh? it refers to a woman?s vagina. It is mainly used in the context of ?sexual intercourse.? When it was used in reference to marriage it is because sex is a necessity in marriage. Al Fassi said,?If someone says a certain man (N) a certain woman, it means he married her, and if he says a man (N) his wife, it means he has sexual intercourse with her.? The word can also be used metaphorically as with expressions: the rain (N) the ground, or, the sleep (N) the eyes, or, the seed (N) the soil, or, the pebble (N) the camel?s hoof. When it was used in the context of marriage it is because sexual intercourse is the purpose of marriage. It is necessary in marriage to ?taste the honey? (an Islamic expression meaning literal intercourse). This is the how the word has generally been used in the Quran except in the verse that says, ?Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of (N)? Sura 4: 6. In that instance it pertains to the age of puberty. The Shafia and Hanafi schools of jurisprudence assert that the word nikah when used as a fact conveys that sexual intercourse has occurred. And when used as a figure of speech it denotes marriage. The reason for this variance is because it is offensive to mention the word ?intercourse,? so a metonymic word is used to substitute it


     thnkyu for this Tut, I had no idea of the linguistic meaning of nikah.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #19 - May 26, 2009, 04:41 PM

    me neither, i hope the girls here realise this before submitting themselves to this sexual contract

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #20 - May 26, 2009, 05:11 PM

    What's the difference between not giving your consent to do something and not wanting to do something?
    I wish Muslims would stop redefining rape and just admit that they believe rape is permissable in marriage.

    And what does it say about the husband if he has to write into the contract that he can have sex with his wife whenever he wants to?

    If it is a default contract made by the state, what does it say about the state?


    Both sign to a contract to have sex, the nikah is basically giving consent to having sex. How can you sign a contract and then disregard it? it is criminal under any law.


    But what is it doing in the contract anyway?

    It's like when I was dealing with my estate agent about a property I want to rent next year, I had a problem with something in the contract and I wanted him to change it. No one around me could understand my actions, they were like "but that's the contract!"

    No it isn't... not yet anyway. You can think about a contract and change it before you sign it. So why is this clause in the nikah contract in the first place?


    You can put conditions in the nikah before she signs it a woman is permitted to do this. She can have a prenuptial agreement, such as he should give her large sums of money, she only wants to have two kids, she wants to be in control of the money the husband earns everything in her name, the husband is never allowed to beat me. These conditions you can out in the contact, also that I can give him a talaak!   

    My cousin sister did that she put a condition in the nikah that she can give a talaak to her husband if she asks for one and he refuses is she is not fulfilling his conditions, such as providing for her and the children and not cheating on her.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #21 - May 26, 2009, 05:14 PM

    I have always thought that Islam has a very simplistic view of sex. It seems to me that Islam says that sex is something that men enjoy and women have to put up with because their husbands want it and to have children. If you look at the hadith about sex, it is always from a male perspective, and never seems to take into consideration that a woman might want or enjoy sex as well.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #22 - May 26, 2009, 05:24 PM

    I have always thought that Islam has a very simplistic view of sex. It seems to me that Islam says that sex is something that men enjoy and women have to put up with because their husbands want it and to have children. If you look at the hadith about sex, it is always from a male perspective, and never seems to take into consideration that a woman might want or enjoy sex as well.


    It's because the person who wrote it is a man... Wink

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ExMuslims
    Council of Ex-Muslims of the Netherlands will be back!

    Never doubt that a small group of commited people can change te world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #23 - May 26, 2009, 05:44 PM

    I'm moving this, its not a rant its a valid discussion.   Afro

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #24 - May 26, 2009, 07:05 PM

    This is sad and infuriating.
    I have always thought that Islam has a very simplistic view of sex. It seems to me that Islam says that sex is something that men enjoy and women have to put up with because their husbands want it and to have children. If you look at the hadith about sex, it is always from a male perspective, and never seems to take into consideration that a woman might want or enjoy sex as well.


    I was told by a Muslim chaplain that there is a hadith stating that it is the right of the woman to be fully satisfied (orgasm?) during sex, and the husband's duty to try to ensure this. Anyone heard of this?

    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #25 - May 26, 2009, 07:41 PM

    How infuriating. What's worse is that this view is widespread amongst Muslims.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG5mI24e3qk&feature=related

    "He was punished as a rapist merely because he slept with his wife against her will."

     wacko finmad

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #26 - May 26, 2009, 08:02 PM

    You can put conditions in the nikah before she signs it a woman is permitted to do this. She can have a prenuptial agreement, such as he should give her large sums of money, she only wants to have two kids, she wants to be in control of the money the husband earns everything in her name, the husband is never allowed to beat me. These conditions you can out in the contact, also that I can give him a talaak!   

    My cousin sister did that she put a condition in the nikah that she can give a talaak to her husband if she asks for one and he refuses is she is not fulfilling his conditions, such as providing for her and the children and not cheating on her.


    I've just read the definition of nikah you provided and so I take it that you can't write a clause saying that the woman is allowed to refuse sex since the whole purpose of nikah is so that sex can happen.

    Well then, the purpose of nikah is so that sex can happen? I didn't know this before but now that you mention it, it seems to undermine the value that is attached so greatly to marriage for Muslims. Marriage for the Muslims is supposed to be the foundations of a healthy society, like in most Conservative outlooks. But if marriage is simply a permission to have sex, then I seriously doubt that it is the foundation of a healthy society. If a husband rapes his wife, there will be a lot of distrust and scorn between them. If there is going to be distrust and scorn between the 2 people that constitute the founding units of society, then what is the outcome going to be for society?!

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #27 - May 26, 2009, 08:44 PM

    I think we are guilty of taking this too far now,  this is a beautiful example of a closed group thinking.  Wink

    Nikah grants permission for sex, not rape!

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #28 - May 26, 2009, 09:02 PM

    A couple of days ago, I stumbled on a paper by an Iranian anthropologist called Ziba Mir Hosseini.
    She defines herself as Muslim but in the straight line of Muslim feminists who want to reinterpret the texts away from the dominant patriarchal perspective.

    it's really well worth reading this relatively short paper as it absolutely confirms what you've been saying above about marriage contracts. Just as a starter to give you a glimpse, she quotes the following learned jurists -  it really shocked me. And I didn't know the meaning of nikah before reading this...

    Under the chapter heading - Marriage: Union or Dominion?, she comments "The marriage contract is called ?aqd al-nikah (literally ?contract of coitus?). (...)

    Al-Ghazali, the great twelfth-century Muslim philosopher, in his monumental work Revival of Religious Sciences, devoted a book to marriage, where he echoed the prevalent view of his time:
         "It is enough to say that marriage is a kind of slavery, for a wife is a slave to her husband. She owes her husband absolute obedience in whatever he may demand of her, where she herself is concerned, as long as no sin is involved."
      
    Likewise, Muhaqqiq al-Hilli, the renowned thirteenth-century Shi?a jurist, wrote:
        "Marriage etymologically is uniting one thing with another thing; it is also said to mean coitus and to mean sexual intercourse ? it has been said that it is a contract whose object is that of dominion over the vagina, without the right of its possession. It has also been said that it is a verbal contract that first establishes the right to sexual intercourse, that is to say: it is not like buying a female slave when the man acquires the right of intercourse as a consequence of the possession of the slave."
     
    Sidi Khalil, the prominent fourteenth-century Maliki jurist, was equally explicit when it came to dower and its function in marriage:
         "When a woman marries, she sells a part of her person. In the market one buys merchandise, in marriage the husband buys the genital arvum mulieris. As in any other bargain and sale, only useful and ritually clean objects may be given in dower."

    (etc.)   no   finmad no   finmad no  finmad


    If you want to read more it's a doc. format file you can download  - so no web site direst but below is a copy of the Google entry where I found it

    The Changeable & Unchangeable in
     - [ Traduire cette page ]
    Format de fichier: Microsoft Word - Version HTML
    Islam and Gender Justice. Ziba Mir-Hosseini. For a century or more, one of the 'hottest' areas of debate among the Muslims has been the 'status of women in ...
    www.smi.uib.no/seminars/Mir-Hosseini/ZMH%20final%20Gender%20Justice.doc -
  • Re: People are fucking assholes!
     Reply #29 - May 27, 2009, 12:22 AM

    I don't have time to read all of this right now but from a brief reading of the discussion on the student forum I'd say you went overboard, Peru. Frankly that guy doesn't seem to mean what you want him to mean.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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