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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi.

 (Read 21614 times)
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  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #60 - June 01, 2009, 02:58 PM

    I have never encountered any racism or problems when socialising with my white friends. I suprisingly only have problems with race when with Indian company only, usually just racism against everyone else. I have heard many Indians here tell me that they are prejudised against and white people are racist, yet in truth I find that this is mostly made up.

    I have had no problems at all when talking to and socialising with modern people of any race, but the minority races living in Bradford are very good at 'playing the race card' when it is usually they themselves who are hateful of Western culture and people. It is also like they have a fear of modernisation and want to remain living with the belief of separating people by race, age and gender. My brother who has absorbed my parents culture wants a wife to cook his dinner and clean his house.  

    Shaking hands is not the same thing as touching feet, doing a namaste with the hands is. The whole culture in which I were raised was a form of controll and submission to me.

    I found a good site on Hindu Cluture here:

    http://www.mailerindia.com/hindu/veda/index.php?hculture

    Quote
    3. TOUCHING FEET IN RESPECT: One touches the feet of holy men and women in recognition of their great humility and inner attainment. A dancer or a musician touches the feet of his or her teacher before and after each lesson. Children prostrate and touch the feet of their mother and father at festivals and at special times, such as birthdays and before departing on a journey.

    4. THE LEFT HAND: In Hindu culture the left hand is considered impure because it is used (with water) in the place of toilet paper for personal hygiene after answering the call of nature. Handing another person anything with the left hand may be considered a subtle insult.

    1.MODESTY: Interaction in public between men and women is much more restrained in Hindu culture than in Western culture. In Hindu culture, for the most part, men socialize with men, and women with women. Men never touch women in public unless the lady is very elderly or infirm.

    2.DISPLAYING AFFECTION: Married Hindu couples do not hug, hold hands or kiss in public. Even embracing at airports and train stations is considered not wise. Men, however, frequently walk hand in hand.

    1. WOMANLY RESERVE: In mixed company especially in the presence of strangers, a Hindu woman will keep modestly in the background and not participate freely in conversation. This, of course, does not apply to situations among family and close associates.

    2. WALKING BEHIND ONE'S HUSBAND: The wife walks a step or two behind her husband, or if walking by his side, a step or two back, always giving him the lead. In the West, the reverse of this is often true.3. SERVING AT MEALS: At meals women follow the custom of serving the men first before enjoying their own meal.

    4. CHAPERONING: It is customary for a woman to always be accompanied when she leaves the home. Living alone, too, is unusual.

    5. WOMEN IN PUBLIC: Generally it is improper for women to speak with strangers on the street and especially to strike up a casual conversation. Similarly, drinking alcohol or smoking in public, no matter how innocent, are interpreted as a sign of moral laxity and are not acceptable.


    Women arent really treated any better then women in Islam in Hindu culture, and younger people are not equal to older people. I dont believe that either age or gender makes one person better or more respectable then anyone else.


    Quote
    As you yourself have mentioned, you faced no overt problems from your parents except a few words which you found unpleasant.


    I think I leave out the part where I were often caned with rolling pins because I dont like people knowing about that. Oh yea, I were never allowed to leave the house all the way untill university, and even socialising with non Indians was a big no - no to my parents, never mind dating anyone :\

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #61 - June 01, 2009, 04:50 PM

    I have never encountered any racism or problems when socialising with my white friends. I suprisingly only have problems with race when with Indian company only, usually just racism against everyone else. I have heard many Indians here tell me that they are prejudised against and white people are racist, yet in truth I find that this is mostly made up.

    I have had no problems at all when talking to and socialising with modern people of any race, but the minority races living in Bradford are very good at 'playing the race card' when it is usually they themselves who are hateful of Western culture and people. It is also like they have a fear of modernisation and want to remain living with the belief of separating people by race, age and gender. My brother who has absorbed my parents culture wants a wife to cook his dinner and clean his house.  

    Shaking hands is not the same thing as touching feet, doing a namaste with the hands is. The whole culture in which I were raised was a form of controll and submission to me.

    I


    Then your experience might be very different, because quite a few people here have also faced racism from Whites. These people have also been part of the minority races & have either personally belonged or have family belonging to these minority faiths-many of them report facing racism, I don't doubt their experiences are fake.

     Besides, why do you need to quote every single thing you need to say about your culture from sites? If I were required to say that little bit about a culture, I needn't have referred to any site at all, I can say those stuff from my personal experiences just like that.

    Had I disliked elements Parsee culture, I could have mentioned it without having to quote sites about what is wrong about these cultures.

    Quote from: ex Hindu
    When they talk to each other, it seriously sounds like a mob of shrieking witches :(.

    As for touching feet or worse, sounding like witches when your relatives gather together & speak, well thats' strange & extreme as well.

    I'd call an ex Muslim a bigot too if they felt that their relatives speak & cackle like hyenas in the wild... Tongue

    Anyway, why do you need to come up with your experiences now? Earlier you'd clearly say that you faced no problems, now its new sob stories, amybe next would be an attempted honor killing from an attempted caning...

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #62 - June 01, 2009, 04:54 PM

    Quote
    Anyway, why do you need to come up with your experiences now? Earlier you'd clearly say that you faced no problems, now its new sob stories, amybe next would be an attempted honor killing from an attempted caning...


    You're getting a bit harsh there, Rashna.  You don't know that ExHindu is making that up, so you should give the benefit of the doubt at least.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #63 - June 01, 2009, 05:24 PM

    You're getting a bit harsh there, Rashna.  You don't know that ExHindu is making that up, so you should give the benefit of the doubt at least.


    Well, yes actually.

    What with him describing his mum & her friends\relatives sounding like a mob of shrieking witches when they get together, & how horried a dance like garba is because some can hurt their knuckles, its strange.

    Its like hating one's Christian Daddy because Daddy & his baseball buddies roar like lions when they get together over a game & hating ballroom dancing because all the twirling makes one feel like fainting...


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #64 - June 01, 2009, 05:30 PM

    You'd be surprised what reasons people give for being angry at their parents and their culture.  I've seen weirder than ballroom dancing and baseball fans roaring.

    Bottom line - you shouldn't accuse someone of lying without evidence.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #65 - June 01, 2009, 06:13 PM

    See these quotes?

    Also, they say that Hinduism is a peaceful religion, yet it is the only one that I know of where they have an anual holy dance for something like 9 nights where they whack each other with sticks. Many of the people end up being whacked on the hands untill their knuckles are battered and even bleeding, but they carry on going and seem to enjoy having the crap beat out of their hands with sticks Huh?


    Quote from: ExHindu
    When they talk to each other, it seriously sounds like a mob of shrieking witches :(.


    We've seen dances & women laughing & its nothing more than great fun, okay maybe he's no liar but just a disgruntled & quite ignorant fellow with big opinions & easy to take offense at little harmless fun.

    It was strange to me that Calm, idolator & me all seem to have smelt a fish at this whole story, we're the only ones familiar with Hinduism & Indian culture-& none of us are very big bigots either.

    Calm herself is an ex, I was never a believer.



    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #66 - June 01, 2009, 06:41 PM

    ExHindu, don't worry about Rashna she's happy even everyone talking about Islam. And ExHindu you are right Hindus treat women no better then the Muslims really. Hinduism is racist with the caste-system, the high-caste Hinuds have been abusing the lower-caste Hindus. Groups like RSS are just as bad as al-qudia..

    http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message647496/pg3

    Witch BEATING Hindus:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/28/india.beating/index.html

    This is how women are treated in Hinduism:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rizzwan/Women_in_Hinduism
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #67 - June 01, 2009, 11:55 PM

    It was strange to me that Calm, idolator & me all seem to have smelt a fish at this whole story, we're the only ones familiar with Hinduism & Indian culture-& none of us are very big bigots either.

    There you go again.  You dont know, and if you're wrong you will look like a right turnip, as well as hurt an innocents feelings.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #68 - June 02, 2009, 05:12 AM

    Quote
    This is how women are treated in Hinduism:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rizzwan/Women_in_Hinduism



    Tut,
    I dont know where you got that wikipedia page from... This is the page I found on women in Hinduism.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Hinduism

    get over your absolute hate for India and Hinduism. Even if you must hate.. Try to be a bit more balanced.

    As for the killing of witches in India..
    Most of the time the neighbors or relatives of these women try to take away the land that the women own. In many cases the women are alone without a male member in the family and thus seen as defenseless. However the people behind the witch killings are brought to justice. Other times when a disease spreads through a village, some women are blamed for causing the disease and killed. The only way we can prevent this from happening is to better educate the people.

    As for the RSS
    The BJP, which is a political party propped up by the RSS got only 90 parliamentary seats in the recent elections. The RSS are dying out and will soon be irrelevant.

    Tut, there is something you need to understand about Hinduism.
    Hinduism can change. When Sati was banned in 1987, some orthodox Hindu leaders condemned the Ban, while other orthodox Hindu leaders supported the Ban. There were women priests in the past and hopefully we will get women priests in the future.

    People rightly condemn manusmriti for its treatment of women and the lower castes. However what they dont realize that its a relatively recent book.  One older book which laid down the rules for social life was the Arthashastra. It was written by Chanakya as a text book for kings. This book does give women the right to hold down jobs and to divorce their husbands.
    Manusmriti should be thrown in the garbage bin but is glorified by the brahmins because it gives them a lot of power over women and the lower castes. With more and more people being educated and reading the scriptures for themselves, the brahmins are loosing this power and the Manusmriti is being given its rightful place.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthashastra

    It is better to remain quiet and have people think that you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #69 - June 02, 2009, 03:10 PM

    Sorry to Rashna / Idolator / Calm, you all have obviously submitted and stuck true to your hindu roots. You may claim to not be hindus, but you still actually are.

    If you cannot face critisisms of your backward culture and way of life, then that is your own problem, not mine.

    Hindu / Indian culture is just  pile of bullshit in a modern country like the UK, you can keep on worshipping your deities, celebrating your festivals, and submitting to your cultures and families backward desires, I am simply choosing to live my life without people like yourselves as a part of it.

    The caste system, racism and dislike of others, as well as treatment of women in Hinduism is no different to many of the problems with Muslims who hate other religions or how women in Islam are treated.

    Of course, people who still follow the religion and culture will try to defend them by any means nessessary by ignoring the problems withing their religion and culture. I myself will choose to oppose hindu beliefs and culture because they are absolutely pathetic in a modern country like the UK.

    You can disbelieve what I say, even though I spent 5 years attending weekly Gujerati classes with a GCSE grade B, and were forced throughout my life to attend your pathetic Hindu weddings and festivals. People who find that boring crap interesting must have a serious lack of enjoyment or happiness in their lives in my opinion, and to be entirely honest, the people I have known that do enjoy Hindu culture are just failures at humanity.

    Enjoy worshipping your parents, touching their feet, and living your lives exactly as they tell you how to. Me? I will remain secular and distanced from your backward culture and any person who chooses to submit to following it.


    As for your comparison to ballroom dancing, Ballroom dancing is an infinitely more artistic, difficult, and beautiful form of dance compared to rubbish Garba. Also, unlike Garba, Ballroom dancing is SECULAR and not tied to religion in any way.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #70 - June 02, 2009, 03:28 PM

    Sorry to Rashna / Idolator / Calm, you all have obviously submitted and stuck true to your hindu roots. You may claim to not be hindus, but you still actually are.


    Ex-Hindu, I do not believe in Hindu Philosophical system that does not mean I can never disagree with any criticism of Hinduism. For that matter, I diagree on many criticism of Islam. does it make me a Hindu and a Muslim simultaneously?
    Rashna do not have any Hindu roots.
    Idolator never claimed to be a non-Hindu.
    Don't generalize between us.

    Quote
    If you cannot face critisisms of your backward culture and way of life, then that is your own problem, not mine.


    If you write something on a public board, expect people to disagree with you.
     I just told you to distinguish between Gujarati culture and Hindu religion. You are criticizing some specific Gujarati festivals, a Keralite Hindu might not even know those festivals exist.
     
    Quote
    Hindu / Indian culture is just  pile of bullshit in a modern country like the UK, you can keep on worshipping your deities,


    Rashna is an atheist. My beliefs are very similar to deists.
    again some generalizations.

    Quote
    celebrating your festivals, and

    I don't anything wrong is celebrating any festivals: be it Diwali or Christmas or Eid.

    Quote
    submitting to your cultures and

    I don't submit to any culture, sorry. That does not mean that I need to say "Bull S****", everytime the cuture is mentioned.

    Quote
    families backward desires,

    Again, don't generalize, my familiy is very co-operative and I am pretty free to chose what I want to believe, and Neither they have stopped me from being friend with someone who is a non Hindu or a non Hindu.

    Quote
    I am simply choosing to live my life without people like yourselves as a part of it.


    Definitely,  Good bye.


     
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #71 - June 02, 2009, 03:33 PM

     
    Quote
    and Neither they have stopped me from being friend with someone who is a non Hindu or a non Hindu.


    Good for you.

    My parents have attempted many times to forefully stop me from being friends with either Pakistanis, White or Black people, and disallowed any form of socialing outside of the Indian community while I were growing up.

    My choices for what my parents wanted me to believe were forced onto me, and were never choices. When I chose to denounce hinduism, I were hated for doing so for a long time not just by my family, but also among the Hindu community where I live.

    If I wanted to believe what my parents and other Hindus in my life have told me, hmm, lets see:

    - White people are evil / troublemakers / criminals

    - White parents beat their kids up and kick them out of their home at 16

    - White women will want to marry you only so that they can divorce you and take 50% of your stuff - You should only marry a good Indian woman who will be your cleaning and cooking slave for the rest of your lives.

    I am not saying any of this myself, and do not in anyway believe it, but this is the kind of bullshit I have repeated to me over and over again as a child from not just my parents, but their friends from the Indian community in Bradford as well.

    Oh, and - 'Never talk to 'Kallah / Karia'. Just dont. No reason given, but I werent allowed to talk to black people while growing up or I would have gotten caned / slapped I guess.

    Quote
    I don't anything wrong is celebrating any festivals: be it Diwali or Christmas or Eid.


    As a good christian friend of mine once told me, The Christmas and Easter we celebrate nowadays are no longer religious festivals, they are commercialised holidays. True christians celebrate Christmas and Easter very differently to how most people these days do.

    You can celebrate the festivals, but at the same time you have to accept that yes, you are during that celebration participating in religious belief.

    Quote
    If you write something on a public board, expect people to disagree with you.


    Disagreement is fine. Debate is even better. Ignorantly saying that I am faking and lying to try and oppose what I say is not, and is not a form of disagreement.


    By the way, I have been to visit my parents home villages in India as a child, and surprisingly, they kept slaves that did all of their housework and chores for them for no payment other than food, and even then they ate very very sparingly compared to us.


    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #72 - June 02, 2009, 04:01 PM

    All cultures will have some good and bad elements in them. Saying western culture is completely good or Indian culture is completely good is stupid. Anyway,, if you want to froth at the mouth at India and Hinduism, then do so..cant really stop you.
    I have lived in Scotland for a year, Interacted with both Indians and Whites and no one really stopped me from interacting with the "other".

    Quote
    Sorry to Rashna / Idolator / Calm, you all have obviously submitted and stuck true to your hindu roots. You may claim to not be hindus, but you still actually are.


    I have never claimed to be a non Hindu. I had also earlier posted that I believe in Ganapati.

    I will also tell you what I told Tut. Criticize Hinduism all you want, but atleast read some Hindu scriptures first. In your case atleast, your parents will not stop you if you read a bit of Hindu scriptures.
    Most of the people on this forum, have read the Islamic scriptures before leaving Islam. I suggest you do the same.

    I have had atheist and agnostic friends when I was 20. They openly denounced Hinduism but never faced any persecution from their families or friends for doing so.
    You are the first person to say that he faced persecution for being an Ex-Hindu. Hopefully things will turn out better for you.

    Quote
    Disagreement is fine. Debate is even better. Ignorantly saying that I am faking and lying to try and oppose what I say is not, and is not a form of disagreement.


    In my case atleast, I dont know how to debate with you. You have no idea of what Hindus actually believe in. You mix up Indian culture with Hinduism. You make posts that you later say were just meant to be jokes.. Maybe my sarcasm meter is off.

    Anyway..Hopefully your family will be more accepting of your beliefs. All the best.

    Bye

    It is better to remain quiet and have people think that you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #73 - June 02, 2009, 04:03 PM


    Most of the people on this forum, have read the Islamic scriptures before leaving Islam. I suggest you do the same.



    Agreed, if not before leaving, at least before attempting to debate about it.  Not that I have any clue whether he has read the texts or not, I just agree with this point.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #74 - June 02, 2009, 04:07 PM

    Quote
    I will also tell you what I told Tut. Criticize Hinduism all you want, but atleast read some Hindu scriptures first. In your case atleast, your parents will not stop you if you read a bit of Hindu scriptures.


    I have ALWAYS as a child asked my mother time and time again to get me some books about hinduism, but she never did. All I know about the religion was taught by word of mouth, we have no Hindu scriptures, and I have never actually known of any Hindus that even had any?
     
    In my teens, I would literally be begging my mum to get me a 'holy book' on hinduism, I wanted one that badly, but they were never able to provide it, so I'll just pass the whole thing to be complete bullshit now.

    Yes, the world was created from a lotus flower by some humanoid freak with blue skin. Really, it was!

    attempting to debate about it.


    I'm not actually attempting to debate the religion, I am just explaining what I have experienced with Hinduism in my life. I am not saying that everyone else is the same, and now this is the thing - Hinduism is a very variable religion with many different interpretations, unlike Christianity and Islam, there is no one true way to following Hinduism, it is just a case of finding whatever you want believe from the religion rather them believing in the religion from any scriptures. (Yes even Christianity and Islam have different forms of belief, but all of these are derived from belief in a single text - The Bible or the Quran).

    Of course, as I have described, even many people who blindly follow Hinduism have never even read or owned any of its scriptures themselves, much of what we are taught about the religion is done by word of mouth, and no written teachings of the religion are ever provided, even when asked for. Basically, it is a form of believing in everything that your elders tell you with no proof, evidence or reasons provided, just believe in it because you are told to do so.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #75 - June 02, 2009, 05:41 PM

    Hi. Im an ex hindu here.

    I chose to become an ex hindu agter being traumatised at a young age by the story of Ganesh having his head chopped off by his angry daddy, and then somehow having it replaced with the head of an elephant - then later on my understanding of transplantation immunology from my Biology degree kind of made me rethink the whole story, and concluded the impossible to be nothing more than a pile of elephant poop  Cheesy.

    Any other ex hindus here, or am I the only one?


    I'm not ex-Hindu, sorry -- but I have a lot to do with that culture. I am half Javanese, and my ancestors were originally involved in a kind of Hinduism that stuck with us culturally. So while I have a Muslim name, for instance, my father gave two of my brothers names from the Padava.

    In Java we have a thing called Wayang Kulit -- Shadow Puppet theatre -- which is a nightlong narrated story with shadow puppets and Gamelan orchestra. The stories usually come from the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. Interestingly, unlike in other former Hindu places (like I guess Pakistan?), a kind of successful cultural synthesis of Hindu and Muslim ideas occurred.

    For example, the guy that directs the orchestra and tells all these stories (including the one about Ganesh you mentioned) will make a dua (prayer) to Allah for a successful show. And we've been doing it like that since we converted over 500 years ago.

    I don't want to over romanticise my country, but this comfortable fusion is what I grew up with. My father -- who is as traditional as they come from that area -- would often draw on stories from Mahabharata and from the Muslim hadiths to illustrate a point or make an observation about people and things. Unfortunately the Salafis have invaded the territory and are trying to stop this indigenous form of Islam (which for me is my tradition and as close as real Islam gets). Sigh ...

    But he (and all the Javanese spectators of these shows) always took the stories to be absolute allegory. But allegory for a higher spiritual truth -- a bit like those fairy stories we were speaking about in the other post.

    Your story of why you left Hinduism surprised me, but maybe I misunderstood.

    Can you answer a question for me: are there Hindus who treat these stories as anything other than allegory?

    For instance, the Ganesh thing is so far out that I can't imagine anyone believing it literally!


    Love and Light,

    The Tailor











    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #76 - June 02, 2009, 08:25 PM

    Yes, the world was created from a lotus flower by some humanoid freak with blue skin. Really, it was!


    Ex-Hindu, I thought that was quite a weird concept, a blue skinned freak creating the universe from a flower.

    So I googled Hindu Creation story and found this on Wikepedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth#Hindu)

    Quote
    Hindus believe that the cycle of creation, preservation, and destruction has no beginning, Anadi. Hindus thus do not see much conflict between creation and evolution. Another reason for this could also be the Hindu concept of cyclic time, such as yugas, or days of Brahma. A Day of Brahma lasts 4.32 billion years and the night of Brahma also lasts for 4.32 billion years. Days and nights follow in cycles (unlike the concept of linear time in many other religions). In fact, time is represented as Kāl? Chakra, the wheel of time.

    In earlier Vedic thinking, the universe emanated from a cosmic egg, Hiranyagarbha (literally, 'the golden embryo'). Prajapati was born from the Hiranyagarbha world egg.


    It says there is no beginning just cyclic. But earlier thinking was that it came from an egg. No mention of flowers.

    I think you are getting mixed up with Bramha who was born on a lotus flower.

    As Idolater says you really should read up on what you're coming to condemn otherwise you may make a spectacle of yourself.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #77 - June 02, 2009, 08:44 PM

    Oh dear, yes, must be careful there. It is well worth reading up on at least the basics (or even must hiring Peter Brook's version of the Mahabharata on DVD!): for everyone, whether ex-Hindu or not.

    All the same, I believe that Ex-Hindu comes from a culturally Hindu background. So I would like to ask him/her, in the experience of his/her family and relatives, how are these stories normally understood? For example, are the Pandava considered -- by your family for instance -- to be historical kings of India?

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #78 - June 02, 2009, 09:23 PM

    Never even heard of the Padava, and we have hardly ever spoken about or discussed and Hindu literature.

    This was funny:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOAhfbH5fU

    =D

    And Russel Peters:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw6RgIf6epQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQqzROAZZQ0&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bP9tRhJRTw&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA9O3hMDRbw&feature=related

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #79 - June 03, 2009, 04:42 AM

    Welcome ex-Hindu!

    I see you have already sparked a bit of discussion here  Afro
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #80 - June 03, 2009, 04:49 AM

    Tailor and Ghazali,

    Regarding Hindu creation, there is one hymn from Veda. What I appreciate is, it is quite agnostic in nature and honestly confesses it.

    Where do the gods fit in this creation scheme?

    The non-existent was not; the existent was not at that time.
    The atmosphere was not nor the heavens which are beyond.
    What was concealed? Where? In whose protection?
    There was neither death nor immortality then.
    There was not distinction of day or night.
    Who knows truly? Who here will declare whence it arose, whence this creation?
    Whence this creation has come into being; whether it was made or not; he in the highest heaven is its surveyor.
    Surely he knows, or perhaps he knows not.

    It is quite long, so I am not posting it.
    http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_1/rig_veda.html
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #81 - June 03, 2009, 04:56 AM

    And to add one thing, for 2000 years Shudras (lower caste) were not allowed to study from Veda. All they were presented with was some senseless mythical stories. They were always told 'you don't have level to grasp it. '

    It is this discrimination, which has taken me away from traditional Hinduism.

  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #82 - June 03, 2009, 12:59 PM

    See, I left the Indian culture where I live for the same reason you left the religion - discrimination and also hatred towards everything that is not Indian is what I grew up with.

    I left the religion purely because I am 100% atheist and couldnt believe in any of it, or in any other because to me they are all bullshit.

    I would say that the discrimination for me has not been a part of hinduism, but rather a part of the Indian culture which I grew up with.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #83 - June 04, 2009, 12:01 PM

    Sorry to Rashna / Idolator / Calm, you all have obviously submitted and stuck true to your hindu roots. You may claim to not be hindus, but you still actually are.



    Hi ExHindu,

    From where did you get the idea that I amobviously sticking to my Hindu roots?  Roll Eyes

    I am not a Hindu, I never was, don't have any Hindu family members- I already told you in my first post out here that I am a Zoroastrian.

    Please understand this:

    * I am a Zoroastrian.

    * I am a Zoroastrian.

    * I am a Zoroastrian.

    I had already posted this multiple times-you seriously need to get this, I posted about  how my Zoroastrian ancestors had come to India a millennia & a half ago & found safe asylum & religious freedom amongst your Gujarati Hindu narrow minded, witch like screaming,violently dancing with sticks ancestors who showed not the slightest discrimination towards us in all these thousand & a half years of any sort.

    You needed to read my posts before pinning obvious labels on me -how can I stick to my so called Hindu roots, when I never had any Hindu roots in the first place?  Roll Eyes

    Can a White Polish Catholic with no Japanese Shinto family stick to their Japanese Shinto\Buddhist roots? Can a self proclaimed British Pakistani Muslim from a Muslim family stick to her Icelandic Lutheran roots & still be a Lutheran despite claiming to not be Lutherans when she obviously wasn't ever Lutheran in the first place & has made that abundantly clear?

    Ridiculous!  idiot2

    If someone aired such opinions before me, accusing me of sticking to imaginary roots & shoots to which I have not the remotest ancestral or present family connection, or for that matter insisted that I and my friends not speak in a particular tone because I happen to sound like a shreiking witch to their self declared newly Anglicized & sophisticated tastes, I would give such a person a piece of my mind as well, & I can assure you that I wouldn't be using lame words like nastik & gora, but words far more appropriate & richly deserved.  Tongue

    To think that I & my friends sound like a bunch of screaming witches & so have to modulate our decibel levels to accomodate someone's supposedly ultra sophisticated tastes!!!  eusa_boohoo

    I would come up with more than these little pieces of insult! Telling a person that she's sticking to her non existing Hindu roots or telling one's mom that she & her friends speak like witches will in all probability make them retort but that isn't discrimination, its simply plain speaking.  Roll Eyes

    Also, it doesn't need an ex Hindu or ex Muslim or ex whatever to get that its utterly daft rubbish criticism that one's mum & her friends speak like screaming witches or might get a sore knuckle while dancing so their faith & culture is horried & violent, or that its very silly criticism when a Zoroastrian is said to cling to roots which don't exist in the first place.

    Being an atheist\agnostic or quitting one's ancestral faith are absolutely no pre conditions to joining these forums, many of us do actually cling to our roots or even actively practice a religious faith, which aren't neccessarily or even mostly Hindu btw-having a religious faith doesn't exactly make a person irrational, just like quitting one's ancestral faith doesn't make a person intellectually superior or even capable of fully reading posts to comprehend that a self proclaimed Zoroastrian has zilch Hindu roots.  Wink

    It doesn't take an atheist to realise that saying ones mom & her friends speak like witches or a religion is violent because someone might accidentally get hurt with a stick while dancing is a bogus rant not deserving much respect, or that a person who fails to understand that I am a Zoroastrian with Zoroastrian ancestors means that I have no Hindu roots isn't being very clever or even capable of reading posts! Then if such a person wants to mock religions, he will naturally be mocked & made fun of, not because he's left a faith, but because the opinions he's expressed as well as his inability to comprehend that a never been Hindu has no Hindu roots makes him seem dumb & plain worthy of being mocked.  dance

    Such a person might well be actively discriminated against as well, not because he's irreligious, but because he insists on putting foolish labels like violent or clinging to Hindu roots to dances or people who obviously don't merit such adjectives! It would be discrimination against dumbness & reading incomprehension, rather than discrimination due to any religion or culture!  Roll Eyes


    Foolish, absurd rants which expect others to modulate their decibel levels, or change their perfectly harmless dance forms to suit someone's self proclaimed superior tastes will bring on insulting words from anyone, regardless of religion & presuming that a Zoroastrian who was never a Hindu in her life is sticking to her Hindu roots & is still actually a Hindu will make the ranter seem dumber still, especially if the person the ranter accuses of still being a Hindu & submitting to their non existing Hindu roots has devoted almost a whole post explaining that fact that she's a Zoroastrian. Roll Eyes

    If you want to avoid discrimination as well as make fun of religions\cultures or whatever else, make sure that you are able to read & comprehend that a person who has identified herself as a Zoroastrian to you as well as given a detailed description of her ancestry hasn't got any Hindu roots which she(in your eloquent words)"Sorry to Rashna , you all have obviously submitted and stuck true to your hindu roots. You may claim to not be hindus, but you still actually are." is still obviously sticking & submitting to  Roll Eyes

    Just two samples from two different posts of mine, no less, where I posted about my religion as well as roots:

    Quote from: Rashna on June 01, 2009, 03:40:29 AM
    -I'm not a Hindu but a Zoroastrian

     

    Quote from: Rashna on June 01, 2009, 06:17:51 AM
    I am a Parsee, a Zoroastrian, your very offensive ancestors first gave shelter to my ancestors. My ancestors were from Iran, Persia...


    In this second post, I go on to explain my religion as well as my ancestral roots to great lengths for your benefit, but alas, you seem completely incapable of comprehending these extremely simple words...

    It really doesn't need an exHindu clinging to their ancestral roots to call a spade a spade, or in this case, a foolish & bogus rant just that-an imprudent & ignorant rant! To mock something, intelligence, basic vocabulary(like nastik) & comprehension(that a Zoroastrian with Iranian roots isn't a Hindu) are utterly neccessary, otherwise the person runs the risk of being as badly mocked in return! grin12

    Please use your scintillating intellect for these much more worthy & urgently required causes in future before deigning to use them for unworthy causes like making fun of faiths or dance forms, because they seem to succeed only in giving others legitimate reasons to making fun of you!(which again strikes you as discrimination or people sticking to their non existing roots)!  Roll Eyes

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #84 - June 04, 2009, 08:35 PM

    Rashna, I dont believe anything you say, you are making up everything that you type. :p

    And also realise that you are confusing my sarcastic jokes about hinduism and the culture in which I grew up with realism.

    I dont particularly enjoy my dad calling my mum a benchod because he doesnt have his dinner served to him on a plate to his table. But I cant do anything about it because my mum has submitted to the point where she would deny it, even though she keeps crying, and when I were in my teens she used to keep screaming that she wanted a divorce, but decided to stay together for the kids =\

    Well, actually, she wouldnt be able to survive on her own being too old fashioned and believing that she is her husbands property.

    I cannot respect my mother because she has no respect for herself as a woman. It is not in anyway possible for her to change her mind, she wants to be a hindu slave forever.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #85 - June 04, 2009, 09:07 PM

    Rashna, I dont believe anything you say, you are making up everything that you type. :p


    Oooh good grief ex Hindu! How delightful! You give me more & more reason to make fun & mock!  evil

    So while your story keeps taking on additional hues & colors as its credibility is questioned by us, I am accused of making up-what?

    That a faith called Zoroastriansim doesn't really exist?  Cheesy

    That I Rashna have invented a brand new faith called Zoroastrianism, gone as far as placing this fictitious faith in your ancestral land of Gujarat & given it Iranian roots?  signmuahaha

    Clever me! Cool

    Not only this, I actually am certainly not a member of this imaginary faith, I am actually & obviously a Hindu, an identity I not only deny but try to cover up with this imaginary faith!  grin12

    As it happens, this faith does actually exist, you might choose to read up on it...

    Of course, I don't really know whether you will actually read up at all, or even if you are capable of doing so, given that you believe after my multiple claims of being Zoroastrian that I actually & obviously am
    Quote
    Sorry to Rashna / Idolator / Calm, you all have obviously submitted and stuck true to your hindu roots. You may claim to not be hindus, but you still actually are.


    Who knows, you might decide to come up with your next colorful story & claim that Sorry Rashna you have obviously invented this faith with its festivals, demographics, locations & characteristics & located it in Iran & Gujarat because you still actually are a Hindu!  grin12

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #86 - June 04, 2009, 09:10 PM

    I think the point he's making is that anybody can accuse anybody of lying over the net.  That's why I said you shouldn't accuse without evidence, it won't lead to anything constructive, it will just cause a  Cat fight

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #87 - June 04, 2009, 09:16 PM

    Anyway, Im being kicked out of my house now for not attending my grans funeral, yay!

    See my post in the rant section for the full scope of my pathetic life with my parents.

    Have to wait for social services to respond and to get me a counsellor.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #88 - June 04, 2009, 09:19 PM

    The dildo in my closet still says that Im not gay :(.

    When I were 16, my parents called me disgusting and immoral when they read text messages on my phone from a gay chat room and threatened to kill the person sending the messages, tell the whole family about it, and told me that I were a red blooded male and to start looking at girls. Right, they went in my room, got my phone and read my messages.

    They think they straightened me out. Now Im looking for a council flat, many many years later.

    Music was also sinful and they forcefully stopped me from studying a diploma in music technology after my GCSEs and made me do science and maths =\

    Now my brain is fucked up and Im on benefits while I sit practicing the Piano like a crazy man.  

    Im looking for a council flat now because my grandmother passed away and I refused to attend the funeral ...

    Damn, bad mistake, they even called the police to have me thrown out but they said it would have to go to court to throw me out, and I agreed on paying rent untill I find a council flat.  

    My life is so shit and fucked up now and my whole family hate me beyond what words can describe hatred as and I was feeling suicidal.

    But Im strong enough to deal with this. I emailed social services earlier and explained the situation asking for help to get to see a counsellor and with getting a council flat on more benefits.

    I have an ear disorder in both ears called menieres disease as well as severe social anxiety which is why I am currently on benefits. I have anxiety and my parents try to force me to go to a funeral or GTFO of their house ZOMG!!!

    Im writing everything here so that I can show the councillor, and also cos I really need help right now.

    I fail at life. I mean, I fail at family life.


    I'll quote it here and hopefully get to show this whole thread to a councillor.

    I came to this forum because my life is a failure and I wanted to explain everything slowly, but after what happened today I felt like telling everything.

    Im not lying about a single thing thanks.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Hi.
     Reply #89 - June 04, 2009, 09:24 PM

    I think the point he's making is that anybody can accuse anybody of lying over the net.  That's why I said you shouldn't accuse without evidence, it won't lead to anything constructive, it will just cause a  Cat fight


    Umm, I didn't say this in my last post to him, all I said was that I am not obviously a Hindu, as he made me out to be!  Tongue

    Three people out here-probably the only ones with with Indian backgrounds & more than a passing familiarity with Hinduism & Indian culture found something fishy in his posts-idolator, Calm & myself-idolator I guess is a Hindu, Calm is currently a theist who follows no religion & I am a Zoroastrian, coz we objected to his various claims, many of which were absurd-he lumped us into the category of Hindus.
    Quote from: exHindu
    Sorry to Rashna / Idolator / Calm, you all have obviously submitted and stuck true to your hindu roots. You may claim to not be hindus, but you still actually are.


    The only reason the three of us objected & found faults was because we were the only three with reasonable familiarity with Hinduism & Indian culture, we now get named as obviously Hindus!  Cheesy

    Sorry, no Hindu roots exist in my case, but some familiarity with Hinduism & Indianness actually does, which was the reason that my statements were sometimes similar to what Calm & idolator said, thus this guy decided to lump us all together!  grin12

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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