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 Topic: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!

 (Read 13078 times)
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  • Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     OP - June 08, 2009, 02:47 PM

    In many Islamic nations including KSA, blood money is paid as compensation to the families' of murder victims, look how discriminatory the rates are based on religion & gender! furious


    Saudi Arabia
    In Saudi Arabia, when a person has been killed or caused to die by another, the prescribed blood money rates are as follows:
    *   100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
    *   50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
    *   50,000 riyals if a Christian man
    *   25,000 riyals if a Christian woman
    *   6,666 riyals if a Hindu man
    *   3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman.

    So trinitheists are< Muslim true believers & Polytheists are even< than trinitheists! Course, blood money for women is< for men! Angry

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #1 - June 08, 2009, 02:50 PM

    It's infuriating isn't it?  Angry

    Certainly pissed me off when I first found out about it, first that punishment for murder could be paid off, but punishment for sex could not, and secondly because of how discriminatory the amounts of blood money were.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #2 - June 08, 2009, 02:52 PM

    Was this blood money enforced at the time of Mo? Was their worth the same as now?
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #3 - June 08, 2009, 03:09 PM

    Found the hadith-

    Malik Muwatta
    43.6.4b


     Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Said ibn al-Musayyab said, "The blood-money for a woman is the same as for a man up to one third of the blood-money. Her finger is like his finger, her tooth is like his tooth, her injury which lays bare the bone is like his, and her head wound which splinters the bone is like his." Yahya related to me from Malik that Ibn Shihab and also Urwa ibn az-Zubayr said the same as Said ibn al-Musayyab said about a woman. Her blood-money from a man is the same up to a third of the blood-money of a man. If what she is owed exceeds a third of the blood-money of the man, she is given up to half of the blood-money of a man. Malik said, "The explanation of that is that she has blood-money for a head wound that lays bare the bone and one that splinters the bone and for what is less than the brain wound and the belly wound and the like of that of those which obliges a third of the blood-money or more. If the amount owed her exceeds that, her blood-money in that is half of the blood-money of a man." Yahya related to me from Malik that he heard Ibn Shihab say, "The precedent of the sunna when a man injures a woman is that he must pay the blood-money for that injury and there is no retaliation against him." Malik said, "That is an accidental injury, when a man strikes a woman and hits with a blow what he did not intend, for instance, if he struck her with a whip and cut her eye open and the like of that." Malik said about a woman who has a husband and children who are not from her paternal relatives or her people, that since he is from another tribe, there is no blood-money against her husband for her criminal action, nor any against her children if they are not from her people, nor any against her maternal brothers when they are not from her paternal relations or her people. These are entitled to her inheritance but only the paternal relations have paid blood-money from since the time of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. Until today it is like that with the mawla of a woman. The inheritance they leave goes to the children of the woman even if they are not from her tribe, but the blood-money of the criminal act of the mawla is only against her tribe."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #4 - June 08, 2009, 03:12 PM

    Quote
    *   100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
    *   50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
    *   50,000 riyals if a Christian man
    *   25,000 riyals if a Christian woman
    *   6,666 riyals if a Hindu man
    *   3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman.

    According to Saudi logic, a Muslim man is worth 30 Hindu women. And what's the blood money for killing an apostate? Zilch?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #5 - June 08, 2009, 03:36 PM

    According to Saudi logic, a Muslim man is worth 30 Hindu women. And what's the blood money for killing an apostate? Zilch?

    Why are women less then men?  If the penality for an apostate is zilch, the killing a female apostate must run into negative figures i.e. the state pays you to kill them. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #6 - June 08, 2009, 03:38 PM

    The excuse given for the differential between men and women is that men have to support their families whereas women don't.  But the lie that blood money is decided on any such basis is betrayed by the differential between religions.  Does it only cost half the amount to support a Christian family as a muslim one?  Is the cost of living that much cheaper for Hindus?

    Its clearly a hierarchy based on the status of those people under Sharia Law.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #7 - June 08, 2009, 03:41 PM

    According to Saudi logic, a Muslim man is worth 30 Hindu women. And what's the blood money for killing an apostate? Zilch?

    I wouldn't be surprised. I know you cant kill a man as punishment if he kills a kafir-

    Volume 9, Book 83, Number 50:
    Narrated Abu Juhaifa:

    I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #8 - June 08, 2009, 03:42 PM

    Wonder what the price tag is on Jews, and if they are worth more than Hindu's?  

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #9 - June 08, 2009, 03:44 PM

    The excuse given for the differential between men and women is that men have to support their families whereas women don't.  But the lie that blood money is decided on any such basis is betrayed by the differential between religions.  Does it only cost half the amount to support a Christian family as a muslim one?  Is the cost of living that much cheaper for Hindus?

    Its clearly a hierarchy based on the status of those people under Sharia Law.


    Exactly. Paying more for "the breadwinner" makes sense (and in SA its almost guaranteed this will be the male head of household), and in fact, this is one of the ways civil courts in the West assess damages in liability cases including wrongful death, but there is absolutely no possible justification for reducing the amount based on religious creed.

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #10 - June 08, 2009, 03:46 PM

    Wonder what the price tag is on Jews, and if they are worth more than Hindu's?  


    Same as Christians, at least according to the source Wikipedia is using: http://www.cgijeddah.com/cgijed/Welfare/deathbooklet.htm

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #11 - June 08, 2009, 03:56 PM

    Wonder what the price tag is on Jews, and if they are worth more than Hindu's? 

    People of the book are worth half that of a muslim-

    Quote
    Abu Dawood Book 39, Number 4527:
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:

    The value of the blood-money at the time of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was eight hundred dinars or eight thousand dirhams, and the blood-money for the people of the Book was half of that for Muslims.

    He said: This applied till Umar (Allah be pleased with him) became caliph and he made a speech in which he said: Take note! Camels have become dear. So Umar fixed the value for those who possessed gold at one thousand dinars, for those who possessed silver at twelve thousand (dirhams), for those who possessed cattle at two hundred cows, for those who possessed sheep at two thousand sheep, and for those who possessed suits of clothing at two hundred suits. He left the blood-money for dhimmis (protected people) as it was, not raising it in proportion to the increase he made in the blood-wit.


    I'm still searching but I cant find anything reliable about women being worth half that of a man.
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #12 - June 08, 2009, 03:58 PM

    I've found a hadith that mentions blood-money for a woman but it doesn't mention it being half, but it does say that her father's side of the family should inherit the money! What about the mother? Do they mean fuck all?!

    Muslim Book 39, Number 4547A:
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:

    The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) gave judgment that the blood-money for a woman should be divided among her relatives on her father's side, who did not inherit anything from her except the residence of her heirs. If she was killed, her blood-money should be distributed among her heirs, and they would have the right of taking revenge on the murderer.

    The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is nothing for the murderer; and if he (the victim) has no heir, his heir will be the one who is nearest to him among the people, but the murderer should not inherit anything.

    Muhammad said: All this has been transmitted to me by Sulayman ibn Musa on the authority of Amr ibn Shu'ayb who, on his father's authority, said that his grandfather heard it from the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him).
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #13 - June 08, 2009, 04:11 PM

    It should probably be noted that although other Abrahamic faiths may not have codified it in the same way, I'd wager that in earlier times there was the same sort of "official", religiously-sanctioned legal discrimination against other creeds. For example, while Jews enjoyed at least a very limited legal status under Islam during medieval times, under Christendom they had no legal status at all, and there were no legal rules of conduct in dealing with them-- they existed in Christian lands only at the sole discretion of the king who could confiscate their property and expel them at any time (including in England where at least a common law prevailed and it was not all royal or aristocratic privilege like elsewhere in Europe). And I'm not positive, but I'm willing to bet non-Jews didn't receive the same legal status or protections as Jews in ancient Judea.

    Again, rather than this being something inherently wrong with Islam, I think it's another example of Islam (in many if not most Islamic societies) being stuck in the Middle Ages while Christianity and Judaism have progressed, at least in much of the world.

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #14 - June 08, 2009, 05:35 PM

    Why are women less then men?  If the penality for an apostate is zilch, the killing a female apostate must run into negative figures i.e. the state pays you to kill them. 


     Cheesy
    Kill a female apostate & get 100,000 riyals! C'mon,  Headsman Wafa Sultan, Taslima Nasreen, Ayaan Hirsi Ali & collect your prize!  Hear ye

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #15 - June 08, 2009, 06:02 PM

    I've found a hadith that mentions blood-money for a woman but it doesn't mention it being half, but it does say that her father's side of the family should inherit the money! What about the mother? Do they mean fuck all?!


     thnkyu Peruvian, it seems this half blood money wasn't Muhammad's idea, just like honor killings weren't his idea! The only discrimination seems to be towards the mother's side, rather than towards the woman herself.

    Mo made some fucked up laws, his stupid followers made things worse!  finmad

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #16 - June 08, 2009, 06:19 PM

    Wonder what the price tag is on Jews, and if they are worth more than Hindu's? 


    Jews aren't even allowed to enter KSA!Wonder what multi culti leftist Naom Chomsky makes of this fact!  Roll Eyes

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #17 - June 08, 2009, 06:34 PM

    ..also

    * If a woman is arriving in the Kingdom alone, the sponsor or her husband must receive her at the airport.


    * Every woman must have confirmed accommodation for the duration of her stay in the Kingdom.

    * A woman is not allowed to drive a car and can therefore only travel by car if she is accompanied by her husband, a male relative, or a driver.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #18 - June 08, 2009, 06:41 PM

    Jews aren't even allowed to enter KSA!Wonder what multi culti leftist Naom Chomsky makes of this fact!  Roll Eyes


    I'm guessing he's against it. Rashna, have you read any Noam Chomsky or have you just read about him?

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #19 - June 08, 2009, 06:48 PM

    I'm guessing he's against it. Rashna, have you read any Noam Chomsky or have you just read about him?


    Both.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #20 - June 08, 2009, 06:52 PM

    Both.


    Then on what basis would you believe that Chomsky, if asked about this, would take any position other than "It's wrong"? Other than your habit of vilifying and condescending to people with whom you disagree?

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #21 - June 08, 2009, 06:57 PM

    Then on what basis would you believe that Chomsky, if asked about this, would take any position other than "It's wrong"?


    I don't believe he'll say anything other than "Its' wrong," at all, its just the many excuses he & people like Edward Said come up with to blame Muslim bad behavior on everything apart from Islam which bothers me.


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #22 - June 08, 2009, 07:05 PM

    I don't believe he'll say anything other than "Its' wrong," at all, its just the many excuses he & people like Edward Said come up with to blame Muslim bad behavior on everything apart from Islam which bothers me.


    You really believe Chomsky would manufacture an excuse for this policy? I'm willing to bet every penny I've got in the bank that he wouldn't.

    As to other supposed instances of Chomsky making excuses for "Muslim bad behavior", please cite any instances of this you please with links to the full context, and be sure to explain exactly why you think it's an "excuse", not simply an explanation or analysis with which you disagree.

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #23 - June 08, 2009, 08:11 PM

    Then on what basis would you believe that Chomsky, if asked about this, would take any position other than "It's wrong"? Other than your habit of vilifying and condescending to people with whom you disagree?

    Noam Chomsky whines about almost everything, ranging from China to abortion. Does he ever condemn any negative aspect of Islam? I would be delighted to hear him criticise any kind of Islamic chauvinism, for example. Any references?

    It seems that this bright, anti-imperialist luminary is ignoring what is going on in the Islamic world, like most adherents of the Left. In doing so, he is offering a silent apology to the ways of Islam. I have wallowed through some of his regurgitations. He has difficulty even acknowledging that Islamic oppression exists, let alone admitting that Islam/Islamism is discriminatory and malevolent. For him, it's just him and his brave crusade against the big, evil, capitalist American empire.

    Or maybe that apology is not always silent? Noam Chomsky visited Hezbollah's leader once, and justified Hezbollah's presence in the Middle East. Not too charming, is it? He spoke against the Danish cartoons of Mohammad, claiming that "it was a nasty racist attack" which had nothing to do with "press freedom." Yep, you got it right. Drawing pictures of Mohammad is nasty, racist, and imperialistic. He also has a strange affinity for Holocaust deniers. And finally, he opposed the UK government banning Abu Hamza, one of the vilest Islamists around.

    He is the kind of person that Nazis, Islamists, and the Far Left press to their bosom. He is a "courages Jew" who opposes ZOG and the evil American empire. He is pretty much a secular version of Naturei Karta.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #24 - June 08, 2009, 08:23 PM

    Exactly. Paying more for "the breadwinner" makes sense (and in SA its almost guaranteed this will be the male head of household), and in fact, this is one of the ways civil courts in the West assess damages in liability cases including wrongful death, but there is absolutely no possible justification for reducing the amount based on religious creed.

    Wrong assumptions. The amount is judged based on the sex of the person. This has nothing to do with bread-winning capacity.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #25 - June 08, 2009, 08:40 PM

    Wrong assumptions. The amount is judged based on the sex of the person. This has nothing to do with bread-winning capacity.

    Exactly right - same way as "apostates should be killed because they are traitors to Islam" is not about killing traitors.    Otherwise it would simply say "kill traitors".
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #26 - June 08, 2009, 09:39 PM

    Noam Chomsky whines about almost everything, ranging from China to abortion.

    ...Buncha other stuff...



    Links, sources, context please.

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #27 - June 09, 2009, 09:22 AM

    Links, sources, context please.

    I thought you were supposed to provide links? I said Noam Chomsky avoids the topic of Islamism altogether, and provides an indirect/direct justification to the tyranny of Islam. Therefore, I would expect you to produce some quotation from Mr. Chomsky which would demonstrate that he, indeed, has some sympathy for the victims of Islam.

    Noam Chomsky meeting Hezbollah's leader, and defending Hezbollah:
    http://informationclearinghouse.info/article13033.htm

    Noam Chomsky on Danish cartoons and Abu Hamza:
    http://greatreporter.com/mambo/content/view/1261/9/

    Noam Chomsky and Holocaust denial. The latter is a book.
    http://www.jochnowitz.net/Essays/ExtremistPolReg.html
    http://www.wernercohn.com/Chomsky.html

    This is how Noam Chomsky defended Robert Faurisson, famous Holocaust revisionist:

    Quote
    "Faurisson has been conducting extensive research into the 'Holocaust" question. Since he began making his findings public, Professor Faurisson has been subject to a vicious campaign of harassment, intimidation, slander, and physical violence in a crude attempt to silence him."

    This is what Noam Chomsky says about Serge Thion, another revisionist:

    Quote
    I was asked by Serge Thion, a libertarian socialist scholar with a record of opposition to all forms of totalitarianism, to sign a petition

    This petition, incidentally, describes Faurisson as "a respected professor." Noam Chomsky, in his ideological blindness, even remarked that "he had seen no evidence to support the conclusion that Faurisson was anti-Semitic."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Faurisson#Controversies

    This is what Vidal-Naquet, a Jewish scholar, had to say on the matter:

    Quote
    The simple truth, Noam Chomsky, is that you were unable to abide by the ethical maxim you had imposed. You had the right to say: my worst enemy has the right to be free, on condition that he not ask for my death or that of my brothers. You did not have the right to say: my worst enemy is a comrade, or a 'relatively apolitical sort of liberal.' You did not have the right to take a falsifier of history and to recast him in the colors of truth.

    Noam Chomsky has so many faults. I cannot squeeze them all into a single post. He is a man lost in his own ideological maze, like blind Phineas lashing out at Harpies that he cannot see.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #28 - June 09, 2009, 10:20 AM

    Well, I gotta get back to bed and catch a couple more hours sleep, but for now, I just think it's interesting that in this link you provided: http://www.wernercohn.com/Chomsky.html, the author basically calls IDF vet and Holocaust survivor Israel Shahak an anti-Semite and Nazi/Islamist enabler for doing, essentially, what everyone here does-- rejecting the religion of his birth and writing about its brutalities, irrationality, and hypocrisy. I guess if you're an ex-Muslim and do that you're "liberated", a "freethinker" but if a Jew does it he's a nasty self-hating enabler for anti-Semites?

    I'll try to get to the rest later.

    fuck you
  • Re: Saudi Arabia Blood Money: Sexist & Bigoted!
     Reply #29 - June 09, 2009, 10:26 AM

    Well, I gotta get back to bed and catch a couple more hours sleep, but for now, I just think it's interesting that in this link you provided: http://www.wernercohn.com/Chomsky.html, the author basically calls IDF vet and Holocaust survivor Israel Shahak an anti-Semite and Nazi/Islamist enabler for doing, essentially, what everyone here does-- rejecting the religion of his birth and writing about its brutalities, irrationality, and hypocrisy. I guess if you're an ex-Muslim and do that you're "liberated", a "freethinker" but if a Jew does it he's a nasty self-hating enabler for anti-Semites?

    I'll try to get to the rest later.


     bedtime2 well Q-Man! The brutalities, irrationality & hypocrisy of Judaism are negligible compared to Islam's, although like all religions, it certainly isn't flawless. These rejectionists attempt to magnify all those to make it seem as if all religions act exactly the same way, or even teach the same stuff, which is untrue. Its a lie & lies don't make anyone a freethinking liberal!

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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