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Theme Changer

 Topic: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?

 (Read 61010 times)
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #120 - June 20, 2009, 05:40 PM

    Excuse me to jump in, for Peruvian, Hass and the others I post some links in Engl and simple language about the pollination miracle, depth of the sea (darkness), and others;

    http://peacepropagation.com/2009/02/quran-and-science-analyzing-hydrology/

    http://www.islamicbulletin.org/newsletters/issue_22/events.aspx

    http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/Allahs_miracles_of_the_quran/Allahs_miracles_of_the_quran1d.php

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #121 - June 20, 2009, 05:50 PM



    OK if I say the earth was formed roughly 10 billion years after the Big Bang - that would be correct?
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #122 - June 20, 2009, 05:50 PM

    thanks Emerald
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #123 - June 20, 2009, 05:51 PM


    OK if I say the earth was formed roughly 10 billion years after the Big Bang - that would be correct?


    Yep.  9.5 to 10 million is about right.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #124 - June 20, 2009, 05:57 PM

    Yep.  9.5 to 10 million is about right.

    ==========

    It's Billion, no? wacko

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #125 - June 20, 2009, 06:00 PM

    ==========

    It's Billion, no? wacko

    Cheetah is a creationist! jawdrop
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #126 - June 20, 2009, 07:33 PM

    OK, here's first draft script. I will leave it here for a few days for ppl to comment and suggest changes. I took out the number miracle coz it's not really a scientific miracle. But if ppl think it should go in then I will do it later. I know I have cut a great deal out - but I had to! I'm havin a break now - thanks to all those who contributed Smiley
    ___________________________

    Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?

    Many Muslims claim that God revealed scientific facts in the Qur?an, long before modern science discovered them. They believe it is indisputable proof that the author of the Qur?an could not possibly be Muhammad, but must be the Creator of the Universe, Himself.

    Let?s take a look at the main ones.

    1. The Qur'an describes the fertilization process and embyonic growth before it was known about.

    This is not true. Details of reproduction and Embryology were known about at the time.

    There was at least one companion - Nafi ibn al-Harith - who had studied Greek Medicine and would have been well acquainted with the teachings of Aristotle, Hippocrates, and Galen. The embryology expressed in the Qur'an clearly follows Greek knowledge prevalent at the time. In fact it appears to repeat not only the accuracies of Greek ideas, but their inaccuracies also.

    The Qur?an says:

    ?We created Man from a drop of mingled fluid...?  (76:2)

    Which sounds very much like the germinal fluid that Hippocrates spoke of when writing about male and female reproductive fluids.

    The Qur?an also says:


    ?(Man) is created from a drop emitted. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs: ? (86:6 to 7)

    First of all it is interesting to not that the Qur?an always mentions the sperm but nowhere does it mention the female egg or the actual process of fertilization which would be in any basic description of such things if it was known about by the author.  In fact the Qur?an?s description simply reflects the view of Hippocrates, common in the 5th century, that semen comes from all the fluid of the body and passes through the kidneys on the way to the penis. We know now of course that it comes from the testicles.

    The Qur?an also says:

    ?Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create! (23: 14)

    This account directly follows the four stages described by the Greek physician Galen, writing around 500 years before Muhammad and includes his belief that bones were formed before the flesh.

    2. The Qur'an describes Iron as being sent down before it was known that meteors containing Iron fell to earth from outer space



    ?And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind?? (Qur'an, 57:25) )

    The word used for sending down is Anzala which when not qualified by a phrase like from the sky, usually simply means God provided such and such... There is no reason why it should be taken literally in this case.

    However if we accept that this is what it means, then I?m afraid there is still no miraculous knowledge here because it was common knowledge that meteors containing iron fell to earth from space.  The Ancient Egyptian word for iron translates as "metal of heaven", and cultures as far flung as Tibet and Australian Aboriginals were well aware that meteors fell to earth containing iron.

    Actually almost all elements on Earth came from outer space. If the Qur?an is indeed singling out Iron as coming from outser space, then it is revealing itself to be limited to the knowledge of the day and unaware of how the earth and it?s elements actually came about.

    3. The Qur?an describes the moon's light as reflected light long before it was known.



    ?And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a Lamp? (71:16)

    ?Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light? (25:61)

    Firstly, the claim that the words Nur and Muneer , mean reflected light is simply wrong. Nur means light and Muneer means to shed light. But again even if we accept these meanings I?m afraid it was already known that the moons light was reflected light and 1000 years before Muhammad Aristotle describes the lunar eclipse that makes this very clear.

    4. The Qur?an mentions that salt water and fresh-water don?t mix before this was known.



    ?It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.? (25:53)

    Once again this was already known about and 1000 years before Muhammad, Aristotle wrote:

    "The drinkable, sweet water, then, is light and is all of it drawn up: the salt water is heavy and remains behind," (Meteorology Book 2 Chapter 2)

    5. The Qur?an reveals the Big Bang & Making Everything from Water before these things were known.


    ?Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were one piece, before we clove them asunder, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe??  (21:30)

    If this is supposed to be a description of the big bang then it is a terrible one. The Earth didn?t exist at the time of the Big Bang nor was it formed at the time of the big bang but about 10 billion years after it and a long time after the rest of the heavens had been formed.

    It does, however, follow very precisely creation mythologies that were believed in at the time of Muhammad. "According to the Sumerians,  ?the heavens had been separated from the earth..." [Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the nether world] and the idea that the Heavens and Earth was once a "single block" that was "broken in two" was a common theme in Ancient Egypt, wher it was believed that the god of the heavens and the godess of Earth were once one and that another god "broke" them apart.

    As for the claim that the Qur?an revealed that everything came from Water before this was known about. Aristotle records that Thales  believed 'that it [the nature of things] is water' and Anaximander stated that life came from the sea.

    It?s obvious the Qur?an was not revealing unknown facts to convince some future set of unbelievers but was simply referencing known beliefs to convince it?s immediate audience that they should  believe in Islam also.

    As the Qur?an says : ?Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were one piece, before we clove them asunder...? (21:30)

    The Qur?an knows that the answer to that rhetorical question is; Yes! Yes, the unbelievers were aware of these things.  The Qur?an is using these references precisely because they are already aware of it, in order to drive home the message that they should believe in Islam also. It is using a belief they already have - or can be attested to by experts in the knowledge of the day - to attach a belief they presently reject. It?s a tried and tested method of preaching. If you believe A then you should believe B.

    6. The Qur?an revealed that planets move in orbits before this was known.


    ?It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.? (21:33)

    This verse clearly reflects the view current in Muhammad?s day that the sun, moon and planets all move round the earth. There is absolutely nothing in the verse that suggest anything else.

    7. The Qur?an reveals an expanding universe before this was known.


    ?We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof)? (51:47)

    Quite simply that verse does not say that the universe is expanding. At best it says the sky has been made vast. Though many traditional tafseers do not regard it has anything to do with the sky but is simply stateing that God ?will make things plentiful?. This is actually a better meaning particulary as the word ?Moosi?oon? is preceded by the prefix ?La? which which means a promise to do something. If we were to accept the claim that it means the Universe is Expanding, then we would have to conclude that God has deliberately chosen to be confusing, ambigious and misleading, which surely defeats the whole object of revealing scientific miracles.

    8. The Qur'an reveals knowledge of the gaseous state of the universe pre-big bang.



    ?Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.? (41:11)

    Firstly gas and smoke are not the same thing. Gas is a state of matter. Smoke is a collection of solids, liquids, and gases that are emitted when a material combusts.

    Secondly if one looks at the verses before and after this verse one can see that it cannot have anything to do with the gaseous state of the universe. It says God created the Earth, then he created hills on the Earth, then it says he turned to the heavens when they were smoke? Like all these so-called scientific passages they actually have nothing whatsoever to do with science.

    9. The Quran mentioned the 7 layers of atmosphere before this was known.
    "It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things." [The Qur'an, 2:29]

    "Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate." [The Qur'an, 41:12]

    First of all modern science usually specifies 5 layers not 7. But more important is that the Qur'an is clearly not talking about the atmosphere but about 7 heavens where the planets are - one of the lower ones the Qur'an says is beautified with the stars and moon. Obviously the stars and moon are no where near the lower atmosphere of earth.

    Again the Qur'an reveals itself to be sharing ancient beliefs of 7 heavens comes from ancient  beliefs and ties in with the idea that the earth is in the centre of the universe and everything goes around earth.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #127 - June 20, 2009, 07:52 PM

    Looks good Hassan. The number stuff is quite pointless so good decision on that!
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #128 - June 20, 2009, 08:09 PM

    Its taking shape pretty well  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #129 - June 20, 2009, 09:31 PM

    Any mistakes?

    Any omissions?

    As I said the reason I have been so hesitant about making this video is because I am not an expert in scientific matters and I don't want to present myself on Youtube speaking about something I don't feel totally sure and confident about. (I don't like leaving my comfort zone.)

    So I need help with this - I need to know if I am saying anything incorrect.

    You can be sure Muslims will ignore 99% of the correct information and focus on the 1% of mistakes.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #130 - June 20, 2009, 09:34 PM

    Looks fine to me

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #131 - June 20, 2009, 10:02 PM

    Looks good to me. Okay, I'll be honest, I only skimmed through it, but I'm very lazy atm. Tongue

    What struck me as odd is the fact that these historical doctors believed that the reproductive fluids come from inside the body and not directly from the testicles. I mean, isn't this kinda strange? Didn't they have and know about castrates during that time? Didn't they know that men couldn't reproduce without testicles at all? From this information anybody should have been able to conclude that the testicles play a vital role in producing sperm. Or did they think that the testicles just collected the fluids from the body and passed them along?

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #132 - June 20, 2009, 10:55 PM

    Cheetah is a creationist! jawdrop


     Cheesy   

    I had a blonde moment.   Embarrassed

    The script looks fine, Hassan.  I'd just add a bit on the end that muslims have made a genuine contribution to science, drop a few names, and point out that none of the genuine muslim scientists took their science from the Qur'an, even though they were well adquainted with it.  It wasn't till Maurice Bucaille, who is neither a muslim nor a native Arabic speaker came along that anyone mentioned science in the Qur'an.  And Bucaille never converted, which shows he didn't even believe his own claims, he just got paid by the Saudis to make them.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #133 - June 20, 2009, 11:48 PM

    Cheesy   

    I had a blonde moment.   Embarrassed

    The script looks fine, Hassan.  I'd just add a bit on the end that muslims have made a genuine contribution to science, drop a few names, and point out that none of the genuine muslim scientists took their science from the Qur'an, even though they were well adquainted with it.  It wasn't till Maurice Bucaille, who is neither a muslim nor a native Arabic speaker came along that anyone mentioned science in the Qur'an.  And Bucaille never converted, which shows he didn't even believe his own claims, he just got paid by the Saudis to make them.


    Yes, I forgot to add that - thanks  Afro
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #134 - June 21, 2009, 05:46 AM

    Now this project of yours will be an epic moment against Muslim Creationism

    Subhanallah  bunny piggy

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #135 - June 21, 2009, 01:51 PM

    If anyone can please help me find some good images for the video that would be great  Afro

    In particular images that would back up the stuff about the Ancient Greeks, Egyptians etc... already knowing about these things. Perhaps images from their books or museums etc...?



  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #136 - June 21, 2009, 01:59 PM

    ive often wondered this, but are we allowed to use these pictures without permission?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #137 - June 21, 2009, 08:08 PM

    Strictly speaking you're supposed to have permission, unless the pictures are accompanied by text which states they are free for public use.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #138 - June 21, 2009, 08:12 PM

    Oz, have u had a look at my script - anything u think I should change?
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #139 - June 21, 2009, 08:34 PM

    Looks pretty good to me, given what you're aiming to do.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #140 - June 21, 2009, 11:44 PM

    Hassan, If I may.
    an important thing with the "big bang",  Matter did not exist to be "banged".
    The "big bang" is not about stuff blowing up or getting cloved asunder


    also, it would be great to add the explanations of the verses given by Muhammed himself. Going to the hadiths and old tafsirs, it should be interesting to see what he said they meant, and what others thought for over a 1000 years ago.





    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #141 - June 22, 2009, 12:39 AM

    I saw recently on Islamica an argument for the sperm/backbone one... but it was pretty unconvincing.  If I remember correctly, basically said that the Prophet was talking about where another fluid is introduced for it to properly become 'semen', which is much higher up than the testicles.  But it certainly wasn't between anyone's ribs and their backbones.   Then the guy said they were talking about it being 'between longitudinally'  Huh?

    It's pretty ridiculous, but I think the language is so vague that it's going to be difficult to persuade people to your point of view on this one... many will just believe what they want to believe.  But maybe it'll get the gears moving in some people's minds. 


    It looks like you're set to 'publish', so I'm not trying to get these ones included at the last minute... but a few points that have always left me feeling distinctly lacking in the miracle-witnessing deptartment.

    I always thought it was interesting how people would quote these scientific miracles... such as the one about the planets going around the sun - and then remain conveniently silent over the ones like those from suras 18:86, 90; which have the sun setting into a dark murky pool and rising near some sun-baked people.

    Also, that one about how mountains are stabilizing pegs (loged into the flat earth which was rolled out like a carpet).  Mountains don't really have pegs... and most certainly aren't stable.  Mountain forming regions are generally associated with earthquakes.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #142 - June 22, 2009, 11:06 AM

    Hassan, If I may.
    an important thing with the "big bang",  Matter did not exist to be "banged".
    The "big bang" is not about stuff blowing up or getting cloved asunder


    Thank you Homer - that is exactly the sort of help I need - cheers  Afro

    also, it would be great to add the explanations of the verses given by Muhammed himself. Going to the hadiths and old tafsirs, it should be interesting to see what he said they meant, and what others thought for over a 1000 years ago.


    Good idea!
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #143 - June 22, 2009, 11:10 AM

    I saw recently on Islamica an argument for the sperm/backbone one... but it was pretty unconvincing.  If I remember correctly, basically said that the Prophet was talking about where another fluid is introduced for it to properly become 'semen', which is much higher up than the testicles.  But it certainly wasn't between anyone's ribs and their backbones.   Then the guy said they were talking about it being 'between longitudinally'  Huh?

    It's pretty ridiculous, but I think the language is so vague that it's going to be difficult to persuade people to your point of view on this one... many will just believe what they want to believe.  But maybe it'll get the gears moving in some people's minds. 


    It looks like you're set to 'publish', so I'm not trying to get these ones included at the last minute... but a few points that have always left me feeling distinctly lacking in the miracle-witnessing deptartment.

    I always thought it was interesting how people would quote these scientific miracles... such as the one about the planets going around the sun - and then remain conveniently silent over the ones like those from suras 18:86, 90; which have the sun setting into a dark murky pool and rising near some sun-baked people.

    Also, that one about how mountains are stabilizing pegs (loged into the flat earth which was rolled out like a carpet).  Mountains don't really have pegs... and most certainly aren't stable.  Mountain forming regions are generally associated with earthquakes.


    Thanks - maybe I can add a mention of those last two - but I may not have time. But I appreciate the comments.  Afro
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #144 - June 22, 2009, 11:28 AM

    Hassan, If I may.
    an important thing with the "big bang",  Matter did not exist to be "banged".
    The "big bang" is not about stuff blowing up or getting cloved asunder


    OK, I have just changed it to this - is this better?
    ________________________

    ?Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were one piece, before we clove them asunder, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe??  (21:30)

    If this is supposed to be a description of the big bang then it is a terrible one. The "big bang" is not about a lump blowing up. Matter did not exist to be ?cloven asunder?
    And there was certainly no splitting of Earth from Heavens. The Earth formed 10 Billion years after the Big Bang in some tiny outpost of an unimaginably vast universe. One can hardly think of a more inaccurate description of the Big Bang, than this verse.

    It does, however, follow very precisely creation mythologies that were believed in at the time of Muhammad. "According to the Sumerians,  ?the heavens had been separated from the earth..." [Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the nether world] and the idea that the Heavens and Earth was once a "single block" that was "broken in two" was a common theme in Ancient Egypt, wher it was believed that the god of the heavens and the godess of Earth were once one and that another god "broke" them apart.

    As for the claim that the Qur?an revealed that everything came from Water before this was known about. Aristotle records that Thales  believed 'that it [the nature of things] is water' and Anaximander stated that life came from the sea.

    It?s obvious the Qur?an was not revealing unknown facts to convince some future set of unbelievers but was simply referencing known beliefs to convince it?s immediate audience that they should  believe in Islam also.

    As the Qur?an says : ?Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were one piece, before we clove them asunder...? (21:30)

    The Qur?an knows that the answer to that rhetorical question is; Yes! Yes, the unbelievers were aware of these things.  The Qur?an is using these references precisely because they are already aware of it, in order to drive home the message that they should believe in Islam also. It is using a belief they already have - or can be attested to by experts in the knowledge of the day - to attach a belief they presently reject. It?s a tried and tested method of preaching. If you believe A then you should believe B.

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #145 - June 24, 2009, 04:10 PM

    Hassan,

    you don't mind if I use the content of this thread later, (in other forums (Arabic), blogs, etc), do you?

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #146 - June 24, 2009, 05:24 PM

    I wonder how Muslims at hat time bought the whole Isra and Miraj story with no evidence whatsoever!!

     Wink




    The Isra begins with Muhammad resting in the Kaaba in Mecca, when the archangel Gabriel comes to him, and brings him the winged steed Buraq, the traditional lightning steed of the prophets. The Buraq then carries Muhammad to the "farthest mosque". The location of this mosque is not explicitly stated in the Qur'an, but is traditionally considered to be the Noble Sanctuary (Temple Mount) in Jerusalem.[4] Muhammad alights, tethers Buraq, and joins other prophets in prayer. He then re-mounts Buraq, and in the second part of the journey, the Mi'raj, is taken to the heavens, where he tours the circles of heaven, and speaks with the earlier prophets such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, and then is taken by Gabriel to Allah. Allah instructs Muhammad that Muslims must pray fifty times a day; however, Moses tells Muhammad that it is very difficult for them and they could never do it, and urges Muhammad to go back several times and ask for a reduction, until finally it is reduced to five times a day.[3]

    After Muhammad returned to Earth and tells his story in Mecca, the unbelieving townspeople regard it as absurd. Some go to Muhammad's companion Abu Bakr and tell him, "Look at what your companion is saying. He says he went to Jerusalem and came back in one night." Abu Bakr in replies, "If he said that, then he is truthful. I believe him concerning the news of the heavens ? that an angel descends to him from the heavens. How could I not believe he went to Jerusalem and came back in a short period of time ? when these are on earth?" It was for this that Abu Bakr is said to have received his famous title "Us-Siddiq", The Truthful.

    Although this story has no empirical evidence, it was established by other companions of Muhammad. Although some accounts describe Muhammad as having visited Al-Aqsa Mosque, this is an anachronism since Al-Aqsa was established in the period of Umayyad rule in Palestine, well after Muhammad's death.


    ...
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #147 - June 24, 2009, 11:32 PM

    Hassan,

    you don't mind if I use the content of this thread later, (in other forums (Arabic), blogs, etc), do you?


    You are welcome, Emerald Smiley
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #148 - June 24, 2009, 11:51 PM

    Hassan,
    You owe me $3.95 plus tax in dry cleaning bills.
    I just finished watching your Conversation Between God & the Angels  video and I pissed myself laughing!

    BCheesyB

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #149 - June 25, 2009, 06:59 AM

    Hassan,
    You owe me $3.95 plus tax in dry cleaning bills.
    I just finished watching your Conversation Between God & the Angels  video and I pissed myself laughing!

    BCheesyB


    Me too! I have sent it to many of my friends all over the world, I think it is one of the best videos I have seen for ages. The best part , is how that cute little angels every now and then says: WHAT?

    ...
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