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Theme Changer

 Topic: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?

 (Read 61019 times)
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #60 - June 17, 2009, 10:53 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 17, 2009, 10:32 PM
    Those are good points, IsLame, but do you not think the camel's urine, etc, point is more of a scientific canard in the Qur'an than a scientific miracle?  Its like the bit where it says that the sun and moon cannot catch up with each other, thus making eclipses impossible.   Cheesy

    Scientific mistakes could be a whole other video. 

    It goes with the general theme of the Quran not supporting science.  If it would take more than one or 2 sentences for supporting evidence, then I would have agreed with you and excluded them. 

    However they are SO absurd,simple and even humorous that particulary during a conclusion could summise an otherwise mentally intense video quite well, particularly with just a reference to drinking camels urine or eating a fly's wing, or being manufactured from dust. 
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #61 - June 17, 2009, 10:58 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 17, 2009, 10:36 PM
    I really don't think all of this can be tackled in one video. I suggest making three vids for the current list, and taking your time about it.

    Its a challenging thing to do but its for the masses, so I'm with Hass on this one. 

    Someone like you Os obviously would need more, even original journals, to convinve of any fact.  But its not for you. Remember its for the masses - we are talking about everyday Muslims (no disrespect Kope) who may struggle with detail and reems of information.  They just need a simple video debunking a number of topics, one of which they might have actually previously believed in.
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #62 - June 18, 2009, 10:24 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 17, 2009, 10:28 PM
    Regarding the list, I think you have made some good choices there. I still think you might
    want to still include 2 items as they can be explained in passing without any detail added

    - Mans creation - clay, mire, dust, water or from the dead? - this can simply demonstrate the scattergun approach to science - throw in enough guesses into the mix, then some might stick


    Yep - might put that one in

    Quote from: IsLame on June 17, 2009, 10:28 PM
    - Medical - camels urine, black seed & fly's wings as antidotes - these again can simply be read out, and there is no need to go into any depth about their absurdity.  Particularly camel's urine - I dont think any Muslims would bhe prepared to do that.  You could also mention that God could have given us a better miracle, like penicillin i.e. antibiotics which would have been a cure for infections, an unknown cure for a widespread problem during those days.


    Since this is from Hadith (also moon splitting etc... are from Hadith) I think I will leave them out and just concentrate on the Qur'an. (Too easy for internet Muslims to dismiss hadith - but Qur'an they can't dismiss.)
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #63 - June 18, 2009, 10:26 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 17, 2009, 10:36 PM
    I really don't think all of this can be tackled in one video. I suggest making three vids for the current list, and taking your time about it.


    I think they can all be debunked quite quickly and concisely - but if it looks like it is not going to work I will re-think.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #64 - June 18, 2009, 10:40 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 17, 2009, 10:00 PM
    @ Cheetah the main ones now on that list I still don't have much info on are No 9 The Numerological Miracles and 3. Moon's light as reflected light. (I am aware that the Arabic doesn't really support this claim - but I haven't seen much written about it.)

    I answered that in my post. If you check the post I quoted by IsLame I debunked it in there (it's written in bold)-

    Reflected light-
    Quote
    moon's light as reflected light before this was known
    It's a bad translation too.
    "Sadly we can't translate the words contrary to their meaning. Nur is not borrowed light. It is light. Munir also does not mean borrowed light. It means 'luminous'"
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/NaikCampbellp10.htm


    I've done a bit more research now and here's an interesting bit from answeringislam about how Aristotle knew about it-

    "When Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) discussed the shape of the earth. One of his arguments to prove the earth's sphericity was the fact that during a lunar eclipse, as the moon enters or emerges from the earth's shadow, the shape of the shadow seen on the moon is always round. Only a spherical object always produces a round shadow. If the earth were a disk, for example, there would be some occasions when the sunlight would be striking the disk edge on, and the shadow on the moon would be a line."
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #65 - June 18, 2009, 10:45 AM
    Sorry, Peruvian - I will read it now - please feel free to smack me  grin12
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #66 - June 18, 2009, 10:53 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 18, 2009, 10:24 AM
    Yep - might put that one in

    Since this is from Hadith (also moon splitting etc... are from Hadith) I think I will leave them out and just concentrate on the Qur'an. (Too easy for internet Muslims to dismiss hadith - but Qur'an they can't dismiss.)

    Agreed, I would leave the hadiths out of this video as the Quran is the more important thing to tackle.

    Quote from: Emerald on June 17, 2009, 10:12 PM
    =============

     Known also as anemophily, found it in Arabic, will look it up in Engl.

    Thanks Emerald, will look it up.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #67 - June 18, 2009, 12:02 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 18, 2009, 10:45 AM
    Sorry, Peruvian - I will read it now - please feel free to smack me  grin12

    lol that's ok Tongue My fault for the lack of clarity. Anyway if you need info about the Greek's incredibly advanced knowledge of cosmology (and engineering) then you can look up the Antikythera mechanism, it's a very cool device that shows the motions of the planets, sun and the moon as seen from Earth. It could predict eclipses.

    There are quite a few vids on youtube about it. Not sure how useful it could be for you but it is undeniable evidence that the Greeks knew their stuff Wink
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #68 - June 18, 2009, 12:26 PM
    A question:

    The Qur'an says:



    Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create! (23:14)

    This verse describes the development thus: A clinging thing becomes a lump and the lump becomes bones and then the bones are clothed with flesh.

    This looks like an error and appears to reflect the Greek belief that bones were came first and then flesh.

    In fact the flesh comes first?

    Is this right?

    Does anyone have the scientific details on this?

    Any references?

    Thanks Smiley
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #69 - June 18, 2009, 12:29 PM
    Os gave a link to the fetal development stages in his post, here it is- http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment/

    The bones start forming in month 4 of pregnancy.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #70 - June 18, 2009, 12:33 PM
    perfect  Afro

    Four Months
    Your baby is now about 13 centimetres (5.5 inches) long and weighs 140 grams (5 ounces). His skeleton is starting to harden from rubbery cartilage to bone.

    Never mind scientific miracles... this looks like a blatant scientific ERROR!

    Has anyone seen Muslims response to this?
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #71 - June 18, 2009, 12:35 PM
    btw, I just spent an hour and half trying to piece together the beginning of a script and am only slowly wading thru the first bits about embryology - u see this is why I never wanted to make this video - too much hard work lol  grin12
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #72 - June 18, 2009, 12:41 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 18, 2009, 12:33 PM
    perfect  Afro

    Four Months
    Your baby is now about 13 centimetres (5.5 inches) long and weighs 140 grams (5 ounces). His skeleton is starting to harden from rubbery cartilage to bone.

    Never mind scientific miracles... this looks like a blatant scientific ERROR!

    Has anyone seen Muslims response to this?

    No, I haven't but you have hit the nail on the head. This video will hopefully finally prove Islam is man-made in a different way to any of your videos to date.  If these facts dont get through to Muslims, then nothing will.
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #73 - June 18, 2009, 12:50 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 18, 2009, 12:35 PM
    btw, I just spent an hour and half trying to piece together the beginning of a script and am only slowly wading thru the first bits about embryology - u see this is why I never wanted to make this video - too much hard work lol  grin12

    Note we are all learning with you at the same time in matters outside of Islam.  Geek

    We now know more than God about how we were formed!
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #74 - June 18, 2009, 03:00 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 18, 2009, 12:41 PM
    No, I haven't but you have hit the nail on the head. This video will hopefully finally prove Islam is man-made in a different way to any of your videos to date.  If these facts dont get through to Muslims, then nothing will.


    You are underestimating the power of Morton's Demon....

    http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/feb02.html
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #75 - June 18, 2009, 03:27 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 18, 2009, 03:00 PM
    You are underestimating the power of Morton's Demon....

    http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/feb02.html

    too heavy - can you give me the dumbed down version please
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #76 - June 18, 2009, 04:29 PM
    Don't tell me you've been possessed by Morton's Demon too.   Shocked
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #77 - June 18, 2009, 05:51 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 18, 2009, 03:27 PM
    too heavy - can you give me the dumbed down version please


    "Morton's demon was a demon who sat at the gate of my sensory input apparatus and if and when he saw supportive evidence coming in, he opened the gate. But if he saw contradictory data coming in, he closed the gate. In this way, the demon allowed me to believe that I was right and to avoid any nasty contradictory data. "
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #78 - June 18, 2009, 05:52 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 18, 2009, 04:29 PM
    Don't tell me you've been possessed by Morton's Demon too.   Shocked


    Nope - he's possessed by laziness. (I know the feeling.)
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #79 - June 18, 2009, 05:58 PM
    there's nothing wrong with a bit off mental lethargy now and then
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #80 - June 18, 2009, 06:00 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 18, 2009, 03:00 PM
    You are underestimating the power of Morton's Demon....

    http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/feb02.html

    you're right - but there comes a point for all of us when the demon just gets too weary of closing them doors
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #81 - June 18, 2009, 06:29 PM
    I just got banned from TheMuslimZone forum for that thread I quoted earlier that touched on the "Scientific Miracles"

    I guess Morton's Demon reckoned it was time to close that gate Wink

    http://www.themuslimzone.com/showthread.php/makes-you-sure-islam-true-3187.html

    You have been banned for the following reason:
    Posting Anti-Islamic propaganda

    Date the ban will be lifted: Never
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #82 - June 18, 2009, 07:07 PM
    Wow!   Morton's Demon strikes again. 

    I wonder if that Mujahida person knows how funny his sig is...

    Quote
    WhenTheWorldPushesYouToYourKnees,
    YourAreInThePerfectPositionToPray.


    The appeal of religion summed up in a nutshell.   piggy

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #83 - June 18, 2009, 07:29 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 18, 2009, 07:07 PM
    Wow!   Morton's Demon strikes again.  

    I wonder if that Mujahida person knows how funny his sig is...

    The appeal of religion summed up in a nutshell.   piggy




    Yes I thought that too when I read it. (btw I think Mujahidah must be a she as that is the feminine form.)
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #84 - June 18, 2009, 07:35 PM
    You dare compare the Quran to Alice in Wonderland?!

    You know the author was a pedophile?

    Alice in Wonderland's author that is.

    BlipsrsealedB
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #85 - June 18, 2009, 07:39 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 18, 2009, 06:29 PM
    I just got banned from TheMuslimZone forum for that thread I quoted earlier that touched on the "Scientific Miracles"

    I guess Morton's Demon reckoned it was time to close that gate Wink

    http://www.themuslimzone.com/showthread.php/makes-you-sure-islam-true-3187.html

    You have been banned for the following reason:
    Posting Anti-Islamic propaganda

    Date the ban will be lifted: Never


     Cheesy  Serves you right
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #86 - June 18, 2009, 07:49 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on June 18, 2009, 07:35 PM
    You dare compare the Quran to Alice in Wonderland?!

    You know the author was a pedophile?

    Alice in Wonderland's author that is.

    BlipsrsealedB

     Cheesy

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #87 - June 18, 2009, 07:52 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on June 18, 2009, 07:39 PM
    Cheesy  Serves you right


    I also got 11 notifications by PM that some posts were deleted!

    I really don't think I was rude or anything - just... well... blunt - but not rude. (they were rude to me though)

    Oh well - I should have seen it coming.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #88 - June 18, 2009, 08:18 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 17, 2009, 10:16 PM
    Why didn't Ibn Sina or al Razi et al,  notice any science in the Holy Book they were brought up with?)

    Such men would have laughed at the number 19 nonsense because they would have seen it for the childish numbers game it is. 


    Speaking of Razi, didnt he write a book called The Prophets' Fraudulent Tricks (Arabic مخارق الانبياء)

    and said:

    "You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: "Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one." Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. ... By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: "Produce something like it"?! "
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #89 - June 18, 2009, 08:22 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 18, 2009, 07:52 PM
    I also got 11 notifications by PM that some posts were deleted!

    I really don't think I was rude or anything - just... well... blunt - but not rude. (they were rude to me though)

    Oh well - I should have seen it coming.


    Hassan, if I may offer up one more quote from Al Razi, while I have the window open.......


    If the people of religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
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