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 Topic: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again

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  • French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     OP - June 22, 2009, 01:58 PM

    Quote
    French women may face ban on head-to-toe Islamic dress

    From Times Online June 20, 2009

    Charles Bremner in Paris
    France could bar Muslim women from wearing full veils in public, a government minister said yesterday as parliament took action over concerns about an increase in women who are wearing the niqab and burka in big cities.

    The latest controversy over dress habits among France?s six million Muslims follows public differences this month between Presidents Obama and Sarkozy over the merits of legislating on religious clothing.

    A group of 58 MPs from the Left and Right called on Wednesday for parliament to react to the phenomenon of women who are adopting what they called oppressive head-to-toe Islamic dress that ?breaches individual freedoms?.

    Luc Chatel, the Industry Minister and government spokesman, supported the MPs. ?If it were determined that wearing the burka is a submissive act, and that it is contrary to republican principles, naturally parliament would have to draw the necessary conclusions,? he said.

    Asked whether that would mean legislation, he replied: ?Why not??

    The new debate over Muslim dress is reviving passions that surrounded France?s 2004 law banning religious headcover in state schools. Andr? Gerin, a Communist MP, led the motion for an inquiry, calling the burka and niqab ?a moving prison? for women.

    Women?s groups, including some Muslim-led ones, back new measures against the practices of a growing but still small minority of radical Muslims.

    Fadela Amara, a rights campaigner of Algerian background, who is the Housing Minister, said that she was alarmed by the number of women ?who are being put in this kind of tomb?. She added: ?We must do everything to stop burkas from spreading.?

    Muslim leaders have mixed views about new legislation. Dalil Boubakeur, the rector of the Paris Mosque, supported an inquiry, saying that face covering for women was a fundamentalist practice originating in Afghanistan that was not prescribed by Islam. The national Muslim Council, which is less tied to the Establishment, accused lawmakers of wasting time on a fringe phenomenon.

    ?To raise the subject like this . . . is a way of stigmatising Islam,? said Mohammed Moussaoui, the head of the council. There are no precise figures, but experts estimate that several thousand women, mainly born in France, have taken to full costumes with face covering.

    In 2004, when he was Interior Minister, Mr Sarkozy was not enthusiastic about the school headscarf ban and he remains wary of stigmatising Muslims.However, he defended the French approach when the US President visited two weeks ago. He is unlikely to be sympathetic to further prohibitions.

    Mr Obama had taken a swipe at French and other European laws in a speech in Cairo in which he said that the United States prized freedom of religion and ?we are not going to tell people what to wear?.

    Mr Sarkozy told Mr Obama in Normandy on June 6 that French principles of equality meant that people should not display religious affiliation in state institutions.

    He added: ?It is not a problem that young girls may choose to wear a veil or a headscarf as long as they have actually chosen to do so, as opposed to this being imposed upon them, be it by their families or by their environment.?


    Source : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6539336.ece

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

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  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #1 - June 22, 2009, 02:30 PM

    It's oppressive to ban the hijab. It would be simpler to ban parents from forcing kids to wear it and make them face criminal charges if they attempt to do so.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #2 - June 22, 2009, 02:43 PM

    Fuck France. I don't agree with the ban on hijab in school, but at least there's an argument to be made for it. This, however, is complete bullshit and an unconscionable attack on the right to free exercise of religious beliefs. Sometimes I wish I lived in Europe, then I read stories like this and realize the legally-protected rights I'm constantly concerned are being eroded in my own country don't even fucking exist over there.

    It's oppressive to ban the hijab. It would be simpler to ban parents from forcing kids to wear it and make them face criminal charges if they attempt to do so.


    Well, I'm not sure I'd agree with that either (I might, though), but it certainly is a less oppressive law than what is being proposed, and I give you credit for being creative in any case.  Afro

    fuck you
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #3 - June 22, 2009, 03:12 PM

    It's oppressive to ban the hijab. It would be simpler to ban parents from forcing kids to wear it and make them face criminal charges if they attempt to do so.

    Banning the hijab liberates women and gives them an excuse to reject the patriarchal slavery imposed upon them. It is oppressive not to ban the hijab. There is no "free exercise of religious beliefs" concerning a piece of cloth which is meant to enslave and degrade women.

    France is a secular state and they are upholding their secular institutions. Good for them. The hijab is banned in Turkey, too, for the record.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #4 - June 22, 2009, 03:15 PM

    Banning the hijab liberates women and gives them an excuse to reject the patriarchal slavery imposed upon them. It is oppressive not to ban the hijab. There is no "free exercise of religious beliefs" concerning a piece of cloth which is meant to enslave and degrade women.

    France is a secular state and they are upholding their secular institutions. Good for them. The hijab is banned in Turkey, too, for the record.

    How is it liberating to tell women what to wear? What France and Turkey are doing is exactly what Islam is doing. They are as bad as each other.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #5 - June 22, 2009, 03:19 PM

    Banning the hijab liberates women and gives them an excuse to reject the patriarchal slavery imposed upon them. It is oppressive not to ban the hijab. There is no "free exercise of religious beliefs" concerning a piece of cloth which is meant to enslave and degrade women.

    France is a secular state and they are upholding their secular institutions. Good for them. The hijab is banned in Turkey, too, for the record.


    Do you not think that banning it will simply force more women to stay at home where they have even less of a life?

    Don't get me wrong, I wish the hijab had been banned in my schools when I was growing up, then my parents would have just had to accept it and I wouldn't have had to wear one for all those years.  However (inspite of being lunatics) my father could handle a little bit of westernisation, there are other muslims who would have just home schooled rather than have their daughters go outside without a hijab.

    I guess I'm trying to weigh up which is better, giving them the chance to have a choice on no hijab, or giving them a chance to get out of the house. 


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #6 - June 22, 2009, 03:25 PM

    Quote
    Fuck France. I don't agree with the ban on hijab in school, but at least there's an argument to be made for it. This, however, is complete bullshit and an unconscionable attack on the right to free exercise of religious beliefs. Sometimes I wish I lived in Europe, then I read stories like this and realize the legally-protected rights I'm constantly concerned are being eroded in my own country don't even fucking exist over there.


    Bit of an over reaction, lol.  They're discussing the idea of bringing in a law, politicians do that all over, even in the US I think.  I doubt it would get past EU human rights laws.

    I agree with Berbs, banning the burka in public is likely to result in women not being allowed to go out at all, so it is a bad thing.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #7 - June 22, 2009, 03:32 PM

    Do you not think that banning it will simply force more women to stay at home where they have even less of a life?

    Don't get me wrong, I wish the hijab had been banned in my schools when I was growing up, then my parents would have just had to accept it and I wouldn't have had to wear one for all those years.  However (inspite of being lunatics) my father could handle a little bit of westernisation, there are other muslims who would have just home schooled rather than have their daughters go outside without a hijab.

    I guess I'm trying to weigh up which is better, giving them the chance to have a choice on no hijab, or giving them a chance to get out of the house.

    No, I don't think banning the hijab will force girls to stay at home. Education is compulsory in Turkey anyway, and I'm assuming that the same rule applies in France as well.  

    Banning parents from forcing their children to wear the Islamic veil is more difficult, and would require more state intervention.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #8 - June 22, 2009, 03:36 PM

    I don't understand why they want to ban Hijab or Niqab. I think they are Damn Sexy!!!






    ...
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #9 - June 22, 2009, 03:37 PM

    No, I don't think banning the hijab will force girls to stay at home. Education is compulsory in Turkey anyway, and I'm assuming that the same rule applies in France as well. 


    Education IS compulsory, but going to school ISN'T.  As long as you home school your child to a standard that means they pass their tests yearly, then you are seen as abiding by the law.

    So yes, it would force more girls to stay at home.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #10 - June 22, 2009, 03:41 PM

    Education IS compulsory, but going to school ISN'T.  As long as you home school your child to a standard that means they pass their tests yearly, then you are seen as abiding by the law.

    So yes, it would force more girls to stay at home.

    And you're sure this is the case in France? That the French education system doesn't have a compulsory attendance policy?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #11 - June 22, 2009, 03:47 PM

    And you're sure this is the case in France? That the French education system doesn't have a compulsory attendance policy?


    Yes, I'm sure: http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-education/displayarticle.asp?id=21708


    Quote
    Homeschooling is perfectly legal but if you homeschool, you must register annually with your local mairie and also the school inspectorate of your region. You will also be subject to annual inspections if you are teaching children between the ages of 6 and 16. Two consecutive unsatisfactory outcomes of these inspections can mean you will have to send your children to a mainstream school. These inspections can be avoided if you follow recognised French correspondence courses


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #12 - June 22, 2009, 03:57 PM

    Well, attendance is compulsory in Turkish schools. Perhaps the French homeschooling laws must be revised. Even if compulsory attendance levels were as low as 25%, Muslim school girls would realise that an alternative lifestyle is possible and available. I don't think lifting the ban on hijab is a good solution.

    Are there any statistically satisfactory data regarding the number of Muslim schoolgirls before and after banning the hijab? How many Muslim girls are forced to home-schooling today? Also, I'm assuming that homeschooling requires additional expenses. Is there a homeschooling industry?

    Also, there are two things to consider:
    1. The kind of Muslims who will not want their children to attend Infidel schools are usually orthodox Muslims.
    2. The more orthodox Muslims will try to keep their children away from Infidel schools anyway, when possible.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #13 - June 22, 2009, 04:02 PM

    Nicolas Sarkozy: burqa not welcome in France
    (Today http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5603070/Nicolas-Sarkozy-burqa-not-welcome-in-France.html)

    President Nicolas Sarkozy has said that the Islamic burqa is 'not welcome' in France.
     
    A woman wearing a traditional burqa Photo: REUTERS In a speech at the Palace of Versailles, Mr Sarkozy said that the head-to-toe Islamic garment for women was not a symbol of religion but a sign of subservience for women.

    "The burka is not a sign of religion, it is a sign of subservience," he told members of both parliamentary houses gathered for his speech.

    His comments follow an appeal last week by 65 French MPs for a parliamentary commission to examine whether Muslim women who cover themselves fully in public undermine the secular tradition in France as well as women's rights.

    The MPs represent parties ranging from the Communists to Mr Sarkozy's UMP.

    The call won instant support from members of Mr Sarkozy's centre-Right government but was opposed by the Socialists, the main opposition party.

    The French parliament is expected to consider both the burqa, where the eyes are covered by a fabric mesh, and the niqab, which has an eye slit.

    France's Muslim Council said last week that the proposal "stigmatised" Islam.

    In 2004, the country passed a controversial law forbidding any conspicuous religion symbols from state schools, including veils, which are also banned in government offices.

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  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #14 - June 22, 2009, 04:03 PM

    Banning the hijab liberates women and gives them an excuse to reject the patriarchal slavery imposed upon them. It is oppressive not to ban the hijab. There is no "free exercise of religious beliefs" concerning a piece of cloth which is meant to enslave and degrade women.


    Yes there is. Respecting the free exercise of religious beliefs includes respecting those with which you disagree or even find immoral, provided they do not result in a direct and immediate violation of someone's rights. I think Peruvian's completely right (after considering it)-- when parents force girls to wear it then it is the right and obligation of the state to intervene. But if a woman chooses to wear hijab without being forced to do so, the state has no right whatsoever to prevent her from doing so.

    Quote
    France is a secular state and they are upholding their secular institutions. Good for them. The hijab is banned in Turkey, too, for the record.


    Yeah, a law restricting religious dress, essentially promulgated and enforced by a de-facto military junta-- that's a swell model.

    To be totally honest I am somewhat sympathetic to the Turkish military leadership trying to force secularism on the society-- but that's what they're doing, they're forcing it-- it is a violation of the people's natural rights.


    fuck you
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #15 - June 22, 2009, 04:09 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    To be totally honest I am somewhat sympathetic to the Turkish military leadership trying to force secularism on the society-- but that's what they're doing, they're forcing it-- it is a violation of the people's natural rights.

    People do not have the "natural rights" to indoctrinate and oppress their children.

    Also, the Turkish secular front is not "a de-facto military junta" today. You need to update your knowledge of Turkish politics. The years of military government are well past behind us. The main (and secular) opposition party in Turkey, CHP, consists of social democrats. Alevites, women, and the urban/educated middle class support CHP. (And if that's going to make you any happier, CHP also opposes American interference in the Middle East.)

    Various polls show that around 30% of the Turkish population supports the ban on hijab (in universities.) One poll gives a figure of 46,71%. That's not such a small minority now, is it?

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #16 - June 22, 2009, 04:35 PM

    People do not have the "natural rights" to indoctrinate and oppress their children.


    They do indeed have natural rights to indoctrinate their children-- just as you have the right to indoctrinate your kids with a Kemalist ideology. As far as oppression of their children goes, that is a strawman as I already said I support Peruvian's idea of prosecuting the parents of children who are forced to wear hijab. But the state forcing people NOT to wear it-- nu-uh, clear violation of their natural right to free religious expression.

    Quote
    Also, the Turkish secular front is not "a de-facto military junta" today. You need to update your knowledge of Turkish politics. The years of military government are well past behind us. The main (and secular) opposition party in Turkey, CHP, consists of social democrats. Alevites, women, and the urban/educated middle class support CHP. (And if that's going to make you any happier, CHP also opposes American interference in the Middle East.)

    Various polls show that around 30% of the Turkish population supports the ban on hijab (in universities.) One poll gives a figure of 46,71%. That's not such a small minority now, is it?


    Was not the law first introduced by the military junta in 1982 and then strengthened in 1997 shortly after the military forced the resignation of a PM seen as not being secular enough?

    fuck you
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #17 - June 22, 2009, 04:58 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    They do indeed have natural rights to indoctrinate their children.

    No. No parents have the "natural rights" to indoctrinate and oppress their children, especially if that piece of oppressive rag is transforming the child into a sexual object in the eyes of Islamists. Why do orthodox Muslims compel their teenager girls to wear the headscarf? Because Islam treats teenager girls as sexual objects.

    Quote from: Q-Man
    As far as oppression of their children goes, that is a strawman as I already said I support Peruvian's idea of prosecuting the parents of children who are forced to wear hijab. But the state forcing people NOT to wear it-- nu-uh, clear violation of their natural right to free religious expression.

    Don't you see it? All parents force their children to wear hijab. Parents are much more stronger than their children. If they want their children to wear the Islamic veil, they can use a variety of coercive methods, most of which would fly under the radar. Do you really think children and teenagers have a natural and healthy inclination to wear veils that will transform them into sexual objects?

    Also, how exactly are you planning to prosecute parents who force their children to wear hijab? That would require extensive monitoring and state interference, which you seem to oppose.

    Quote from: Q-Man
    Was not the law first introduced by the military junta in 1982 and then strengthened in 1997 shortly after the military forced the resignation of a PM seen as not being secular enough?

    Yes, 27 years ago. But the military was only pushing for something that deeply troubled the Turkish population. For the record, there were almost no hijab-wearing women prior to 1960, so a law banning something that did not exist would be absurd. The Turkish Left supports the ban on hijab, with the exception of some fringe groups. This means that the ban on hijab is not just the whim of the "military junta" as you suggest.

    The European Court of Human Rights supports the Turkish ban on hijab, for the record. The ban on hijab also protects the rights of non-hijabi girls, since there are many underdeveloped parts in Turkey where peer pressure compels teenagers and adult women to wear the headscarf.

    Quote from: Q-Man
    shortly after the military forced the resignation of a PM seen as not being secular enough?

    You mean Merve Kavakci? She is like an Islamic version of Anne Coulter.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #18 - June 22, 2009, 05:50 PM

    No. No parents have the "natural rights" to indoctrinate and oppress their children, especially if that piece of oppressive rag is transforming the child into a sexual object in the eyes of Islamists. Why do orthodox Muslims compel their teenager girls to wear the headscarf? Because Islam treats teenager girls as sexual objects.


    Parents have a right to teach their kids whatever the fuck they want without the state preventing it. The same authority which prevents parents from "oppressing" their kids through religious indoctrination can also be used to prevent parents from "oppressing" their kids through secular indoctrination. How about if France decided to ban parents from teaching their kids your sort of anti-Islamic views because it is "oppressing" the children with "islamophobic hatred"? Would you support that? Because that is exactly the kind of door you are opening when you say the state has authority to prevent parents from "indoctrinating" their children.

    Quote
    Don't you see it? All parents force their children to wear hijab. Parents are much more stronger than their children. If they want their children to wear the Islamic veil, they can use a variety of coercive methods, most of which would fly under the radar. Do you really think children and teenagers have a natural and healthy inclination to wear veils that will transform them into sexual objects?


    The proposed French law is not simply banning children from wearing the niqab/burkha, it is banning everyone from wearing it in public, adults included. How can you possibly say this is not an infringement upon their right to religious expression?

    Quote
    Also, how exactly are you planning to prosecute parents who force their children to wear hijab? That would require extensive monitoring and state interference, which you seem to oppose.


    Same way child abuse is prosecuted-- someone has to report it, then it's investigated.

    Quote
    Yes, 27 years ago. But the military was only pushing for something that deeply troubled the Turkish population. For the record, there were almost no hijab-wearing women prior to 1960, so a law banning something that did not exist would be absurd. The Turkish Left supports the ban on hijab, with the exception of some fringe groups. This means that the ban on hijab is not just the whim of the "military junta" as you suggest.


    I didn't say it was a "whim", but it is true that it was forcibly imposed by the military, is it not?

    Quote
    The European Court of Human Rights supports the Turkish ban on hijab, for the record.


    So? They'd probably support a ban on civilian ownership of firearms too, but I'd still think it was bullshit.

    Quote
    The ban on hijab also protects the rights of non-hijabi girls, since there are many underdeveloped parts in Turkey where peer pressure compels teenagers and adult women to wear the headscarf.


    It is not the state's proper role, in a free society, to protect people, even children, from "peer pressure". Nanny-state nonsense.

    fuck you
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #19 - June 22, 2009, 06:14 PM

    If you believe that telling women they must wear hijab/niqab/burqa is oppressive, surely it is hypocritical to say that telling women they must not wear it is not oppressive.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #20 - June 22, 2009, 06:16 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    Parents have a right to teach their kids whatever the fuck they want without the state preventing it.

    No, especially if that "teaching" part involves any coercion. Children are not toys or blank pages that adults can fill as they wish. Transforming children into sexual objects, all the while indoctrinating them with fear of Hell, is just wrong. Do you support the "natural rights" of parents to beat their children, for example?

    Quote from: Q-Man
    The same authority which prevents parents from "oppressing" their kids through religious indoctrination can also be used to prevent parents from "oppressing" their kids through secular indoctrination.

    And this is already the case in the Islamic world. Politics is all about power, Q-Man. Islamists have more power than secularists in the Islamic world, so they make the laws. In Turkey and France, secularists have more power than fundamentalists (well, maybe no more) so we make the laws. Everything else is just pipe dreams.

    Laws are never objective. They are created by people.

    Quote from: Q-Man
    The proposed French law is not simply banning children from wearing the niqab/burkha, it is banning everyone from wearing it in public, adults included. How can you possibly say this is not an infringement upon their right to religious expression?

    Eh? I was discussing the current, valid French law regarding hijab and education with BerberElla.

    Quote from: Q-Man
    It is not the state's proper role, in a free society, to protect people, even children, from "peer pressure". Nanny-state nonsense.

    Even when this peer pressure includes emotional and physical torment and blackmail? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Since you are not familiar with the kind of torment Muslim girls and women have to suffer, I think your opinions are irrelevant. 

    The state, as the collective will of the people, has a duty to protect individuals who are threatened by other individuals. If we are going to abolish the idea of social contracts, then we can delegitimise murder and pedophilia, too: since the concepts of "victims" and "perpetrators" no longer exist.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #21 - June 22, 2009, 06:35 PM

    Heres an idea....

    Why don't men just stop telling women how they must dress.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #22 - June 22, 2009, 06:38 PM

    Heres an idea....

    Why don't men just stop telling women how they must dress.

    This is why hijab exists in the first place.  Roll Eyes

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #23 - June 22, 2009, 06:45 PM

    No, especially if that "teaching" part involves any coercion. Children are not toys or blank pages that adults can fill as they wish. Transforming children into sexual objects, all the while indoctrinating them with fear of Hell, is just wrong. Do you support the "natural rights" of parents to beat their children, for example?


    Equating physical abuse with teaching kids your values, ideas and religion is disingenuous and you know it, or at least I hope you do.

    Quote
    And this is already the case in the Islamic world. Politics is all about power, Q-Man. Islamists have more power than secularists in the Islamic world, so they make the laws. In Turkey and France, secularists have more power than fundamentalists (well, maybe no more) so we make the laws. Everything else is just pipe dreams.

    Laws are never objective. They are created by people.


    Well, then I guess we should just give up on creating laws based upon universal principles of justice then. Ya know Zaephon, for someone who criticizes Marxists so much, you sure did sound like one there. A Trotskyist couldn't have put it better.

    Quote
    Even when this peer pressure includes emotional and physical torment and blackmail? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Since you are not familiar with the kind of torment Muslim girls and women have to suffer, I think your opinions are irrelevant. 


    Then you shouldn't be calling it "peer pressure" which, in this country at least, refers to mildly coercive social pressure amongst children to conform. If what you are talking about is physical assault and extortion then call it such. The state has a right to prevent such things as they are a violation of one's rights-- they do NOT have the right to prevent social ostracization or teasing, however. It is the right of a family or community to scorn such values they do not approve of, provided this scorn does not translate into forcibly violating someone's rights.

    fuck you
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #24 - June 22, 2009, 06:46 PM

    This is why hijab exists in the first place.  Roll Eyes


    That was his point. I think it was a polite way of saying you are being hypocritical.

    fuck you
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #25 - June 22, 2009, 06:49 PM

    I was out and about today and it was very warm...everytime i saw a muslim lady all cladded up in the muslim garms most of them looked miserable and too HOT.

    Personally i think the whole hijab thing is bollocks, it doesnt do anything to stop men lusting after women. Actually, for me anyway, it can be quite a turn on when you can just see some sexy eyes looking at you, makes you have all kind of thoughts about wondering 'whats under it'.

    I went on holiday few years back, and the chicks were all topless on the beach and around the pool. Its cool for a few days, but after that you come to see that tits are just tits, nothing special.

    But yeh if a girl wants to cover up like that then why not? its her right to. I just hope it is her who is choosing to dress that way and not some dip shit man.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #26 - June 22, 2009, 06:57 PM

    Quote from: Glen
    I just hope it is her who is choosing to dress that way and not some dip shit man.

    That's the entire point. Most women do not choose to wear the hijab out of free will. The ban on hijab gives them an excuse to breach the patriarchy imposed upon them.

    Quote from: Q-Man
    Ya know Zaephon, for someone who criticizes Marxists so much, you sure did sound like one there.

    Laws are created by people. This is not a wishful statement, this is an observation.

    Quote from: Q-Man
    I think it was a polite way of saying you are being hypocritical.

    Yes, and coming from somebody who has a very warped understanding of secularism, that really means much to me.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #27 - June 22, 2009, 07:07 PM

    Quote from: Q-Man
    Equating physical abuse with teaching kids your values, ideas and religion is disingenuous and you know it, or at least I hope you do.

    Again, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. How many Muslim girls/women are forced to accept the "value, idea, and religion" that women are inferior to men in every aspect by their parents? How many Muslim girls/women have to suffer marital violence and rape because of this? Women who wear hijab willingly are just a minority.

    The hijab is a symbol of Islamic patriarchy, a shroud to protect "exposed meat."

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #28 - June 22, 2009, 07:17 PM

    Yes, and coming from somebody who has a very warped understanding of secularism, that really means much to me.


    Why don't you just fuck off.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: French Hijab Ban Rears it's Head Once Again
     Reply #29 - June 22, 2009, 07:24 PM

    Why don't you just fuck off.

    Yawn.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
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