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Theme Changer

 Topic: Ban the Burka/Niqab?

 (Read 13737 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #30 - June 28, 2009, 04:55 PM

    Quote from: BerberElla
    Getting out and about and being able to see and learn is the only thing they have, and a blanket ban could potentially take that away from them.

    I thought detaining a person in a home despite his/her will was a punishable crime? I see where you are coming from, but I still don't think the ban on niqab/burqa is the correct solution. Why not incarcerate some of the families who have imprisoned and abused their daughters, and make an example of them? I think only the most extremist, the most orthodox Muslim families will never allow their daughters to leave the home. If the government punished some of these families, the problem would have been alleviated, right?

    You may also notice that the medallion has another side. There are many Muslim women who are allowed to leave their homes, despite being very eager to get rid of the burqa/niqab. Yet they cannot report their male relatives because they are too afraid. I am inclined to think that this group is more crowded than the very-orthodox group you describe.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #31 - June 28, 2009, 04:58 PM

    I thought detaining a person in a home despite his/her will was a punishable crime? I see where you are coming from, but I still don't think the ban on niqab/burqa is the correct solution. Why not incarcerate some of the families who have imprisoned and abused their daughters, and make an example of them? I think only the most extremist, the most orthodox Muslim families will never allow their daughters to leave the home. If the government punished some of these families, the problem would have been alleviated, right?

    You may also notice that the medallion has another side. There are many Muslim women who are allowed to leave their homes, despite being very eager to get rid of the burqa/niqab. Yet they cannot report their male relatives because they are too afraid. I am inclined to think that this group is more crowded than the very-orthodox group you describe.


    The burqa crowd ARE the very orthodox group, the minority fringe, the ones who believe that the veil is mandatory. If they are already religious enough to insist on the veil, they are the ones most likely to make her stay at home.

    The more relaxed muslimah only wears a hijab, and her family are more relaxed.  the ban won't impact them, the ban will impact the ones you wish to save.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #32 - June 28, 2009, 05:05 PM

    The burqa crowd ARE the very orthodox group, the minority fringe, the ones who believe that the veil is mandatory. If they are already religious enough to insist on the veil, they are the ones most likely to make her stay at home.

    The more relaxed muslimah only wears a hijab, and her family are more relaxed.  the ban won't impact them, the ban will impact the ones you wish to save.

    But don't you think there is some difference between Muslim parents who just impose the burqa, and Muslim parents who'd detain their daughters in their homes no matter what? The second group sound like an even smaller minority to me.

    *shrugs*

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #33 - June 28, 2009, 05:07 PM

    But don't you think there is some difference between Muslim parents who just impose the burqa, and Muslim parents who'd detain their daughters in their homes no matter what? The second group sound like an even smaller minority to me.

    *shrugs*


    No, most times I've run across families where the burqa is an imposed thing it has been couched in terms of "if you don't wear this burqa, you can not leave the house".  So they are the same people.

    EDIT: actually practically every burqa situation I've run across has been forced by father or husband, only a couple wore it of their own accord (if that's what is called ones own accord these days anyway).


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #34 - June 28, 2009, 05:19 PM

    No, most times I've run across families where the burqa is an imposed thing it has been couched in terms of "if you don't wear this burqa, you can not leave the house".  So they are the same people.

    EDIT: actually practically every burqa situation I've run across has been forced by father or husband, only a couple wore it of their own accord (if that's what is called ones own accord these days anyway).

    Then certainly these families violate the personal rights of their daughters. Since we both agree that there are only very few cases of girls wearing the niqab of their own accord, why not prosecute these families and ban the niqab together? That would solve the problem altogether.

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #35 - June 28, 2009, 05:23 PM

    do man masturbate at hijab wearing women or bikini wearing women?

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #36 - June 28, 2009, 05:29 PM

    do man masturbate at hijab wearing women or bikini wearing women?





    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #37 - June 28, 2009, 05:32 PM

    I agree with a lot of what Condell says.

    However i dont think the Government should ban it.

    BUT! having said that, if we are to give people the liberty to be able to wear what they want, then why the hell cant we walk around with no clothing??

    If we are talking about personal rights to wear what we choose, then i should be able to wear nothing if i choose, its my life.

    Or is this another case of liberal bias?


    Kope can explain why God created us naked, or can't he?


    ...
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #38 - June 28, 2009, 05:47 PM

    What I don't understand is why Muslim men don't wear Burka too? Men I am sure can be sexy and tempting to women too, can't they?

    I once remember seeing in Oxford street (it was summer time in London few years back) a Saudi man walking alongside his Burka and he was wearing shorts and a white T-shirt and sandals and licking an ice-cream. Don't tell me his wife was OK with that. The temperature then was about 30 C and was humid.

    Religion was for sure created by Man (I mean literally by a Man not by a women) and the veil or head-scarf or the Hijab is enough evidence for me!! No sane women would invent this prison for herself.


    ...
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #39 - June 28, 2009, 05:54 PM

    Quote from: RIBS
    What I don't understand is why Muslim men don't wear Burka too? Men I am sure can be sexy and tempting to women too, can't they?

    Logically, yes. But male-oriented cultures do not really understand the concept of "male beauty." Women are expected to pick up partners based on their wealth and power, not their beauty. (That is, if they are allowed to choose at all.)

    Islam: where idiots meet terrorists.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #40 - June 28, 2009, 08:33 PM

    What do you personally think about it? I don't like it, but if a woman feels she needs to wear it (and not coerced, which is hard to ascertain if she doesn't say so) then let her wear it.


    I'm against banning it.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #41 - June 28, 2009, 08:43 PM

    Here's the BBC program:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007zpll
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #42 - June 28, 2009, 09:03 PM

    I'm against banning it.

    i am for banning


    what makes you change your mind?

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #43 - June 28, 2009, 09:20 PM

    i am for banning

    Why?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #44 - June 28, 2009, 09:54 PM

    Why?


    Bad question...lol
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #45 - June 28, 2009, 10:30 PM

    I think it should be subject to the same restrictions as any other piece of attire. In other words, as it is illegal here to enter a bank with your face covered I see no reason why an exception should be made for the burqa/niqab. The hijab is not a security problem so there is no reason to put a restriction on it. I also think shopkeepers should have the right to refuse entry and/or service to anyone who covers their face, again for security reasons. The same could apply to public or private buildings if they felt they had legitimate reasons.

    Pat Condell is right about ridiculing the bura/niqab. It should definitely not  be regarded as "sacred" in any way and if anyone wants to take the piss out of it they should feel free to do so. As for western feminists Condell is right about them too, in general at least. There are probably exceptions.

    ETA: Oh and even more pertinent than ridiculing the burqa/niqab itself is ridiculing men who think women should wear it. There is great potential for merriment there.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #46 - June 28, 2009, 10:34 PM

    I'm just watching the programme.

    I wish I was in the audience/panel because I would've had so much to say.

    .
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #47 - June 28, 2009, 10:37 PM

    I'm just watching the programme.

    I wish I was in the audience/panel because I would've had so much to say.


    I felt really sorry for that niqabi girl! They could have got someone on there who could have argued her case a bit better!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #48 - June 28, 2009, 11:07 PM

    Quote from: osmanthus
    ETA: Oh and even more pertinent than ridiculing the burqa/niqab itself is ridiculing men who think women should wear it. There is great potential for merriment there.


    I'm all for that!  I think ridiculing the crazy beardos who insist that the burqa is mandatory would be much more effective than trying to ban the burqa itself.  Stripping orthodox Muslim males of their dignity would, IMO, be a surefire method of getting something done about it.

    I've said it before and I will say it again.  The British goverment have been way too soft with the hardliners.  All this softly, softly, let's not offend the Muslims bulls**t has got to stop!

    I know for a fact that in the US, you are not allowed to drive a car whilst wearing a niqab but I have seen several niqabis behind the wheel here in the UK.  I'd sure hate to be walking along an unlit road at night when one of them drives by!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #49 - June 29, 2009, 12:29 AM

    Why?

    well. if western countries baned muslims women clothing one day will come the west will realize that the harm sextual immorality causing to their society than they will tell their women COVER UP and apologize to muslims women and follow mass conversion to islam

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #50 - June 29, 2009, 12:45 AM

     Cheesy Cheesy

    Yeah, good luck with that kope.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #51 - June 29, 2009, 01:24 AM

    Cheesy Cheesy

    Yeah, good luck with that kope.

     finmad

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #52 - June 29, 2009, 01:54 AM

    Here ya go, Kope. Take a kick to the head from a covered up woman. Lace is covering.  Cheesy

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #53 - June 29, 2009, 03:29 AM

    He is wrong in that the burkha isn't part of Islam, if you check the hadiths you will know that your face has to be covered. Women aren't to be recognised by others.


    So what about all the muslim women who do not cover up their face and only wear a Hijab?

    Or all the muslim women who choose not to wear Islamic clothing?

    They are not muslims then? I hear from them that you do not have to cover up your face to be a muslim woman.

    As a rule stating that women are not to be recognised by others is only required for women, isnt it by default a rule of prejudice and oppression against women, because it something that their religion tells them that they have to do, but men dont have to? Why would a woman choose to be unrecognisable to others? What level of mental insecurity would cause her to want this?

    If you support the wearing of the Burka, then do you also support other Islamic teachings stating that a woman is only half the worth of a man? Do you support the laws in Saudi Arabia where a woman is not allowed drive, rarely ever allowed to enter education, and only entitled to half as much compensation in Sharia courts then men?

    Obviously, discriminating against women and not treating them eqaully is a core fundamental Islamic belief. So if you do support the Burka as a religious right that a womans face has to be covered, then you should also equally support all the other discriminatory actions of Islam against women.

    If a woman is being forced by her familly to wear a burka, and told that she cannot leave the house without it on, then this isclearly oppression, illegal and hurtful / demoralising to that woman.

    Now if a muslim woman has left and escaped from such a familly situation, but genuinely feels like she still has to wear the veil, then shouldnt that woman be offered councilling for help with overcoming the desire to have her face covered up? As can be said by many people as a compliment 'Your face is beautiful, you should not cover it up'. If this triggers an insecurity in a person about their looks or their face, then that person really needs mental and psychological help.

    As for women who choose freely to cover their faces up? Complete lunatics if you ask me.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab
     Reply #54 - June 29, 2009, 04:54 PM



    That...was...AWESOME!

     Cheesy

    fuck you
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #55 - June 29, 2009, 09:36 PM

    Here ya go, Kope. Take a kick to the head from a covered up woman. Lace is covering.  Cheesy

    why muslim women get respect and non-muslim women disrespect

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbSOvS8MFuQ

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #56 - June 29, 2009, 09:51 PM

    That vid offers the best argument I heard yet to ban the burqa/niqab.  It shows the sick mentality which veiling women creates and panders to.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #57 - June 29, 2009, 10:21 PM

    First point: I notice that most of the Muslim women speaking in that video are not wearing the niqab or the burqa. They must be whores, right?  Wink

    Second point: hypocrisy. These women claim they are free from obsessions about how they look and how they appear to men and how they dress, which is obviously false. They are very focused on what they wear and how they appear to men.

    Third point: the claim that Islam relies on a mutual responsibility for both men and women in terms of conduct and the implication that other cultures do not. False. When I'm on the beach surrounded by women in bikinis (heaven on earth grin12 ) they take it for granted that it is my responsibility to behave in a respectful fashion and I have absolutely no problem with this. Islam puts the onus on the women because it assumes that such bikini-clad women are responsible for the reactions of men, which is bullshit IMO.

    Fourth point: the Islamic attitude is not only an insult to women (because it holds them responsible for other people's actions and condemns them as whores if they do not comply with Islamic attitudes) but it is also an insult to me as a man, because it assumes I have no ability to see women as anything other than sex objects and it assumes I have no ability to control myself. It even assumes that I am constantly (rather than intermittently  grin12 ) needing to control myself.

    Fifth point: the video attempts to claim that the attitudes of some idiot hip hop wanker should be a major influence in establishing codes of conduct. I woud have thought if anything the exact opposite would be the case.  Cheesy

    Summary: the Islamic attitude to women's clothing is bullshit. Kthnxbai. bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #58 - June 30, 2009, 03:59 AM

     I've got two very strong , totally conflicting , gut reactions to this issue -
      1 - It's not the state's business to interfere with what people wear
      2 - I detest the burqa & niqab and what they represent  ( the hijab makes me a bit wary but it's not a total barrier like the others )

       on balance , I don't think it would be a healthy development for  ( relatively) free countries to start interfering with people's clothing , but I totally agree with Osmanthus , that businesses should be free to ban people in burqas - and I'd go further . People working for a public service or dealing with customers shouldn't be allowed to hide their faces . And it should be banned in schools , firstly , it would be too hard to establish if it was voluntary - most children obey their parents . secondly , uniform rules should apply equally to everyone . lastly , and most importantly , it is perpretrating a totally regressive attitude - years ago I remember seeing news interviews with white parents saying they weren't happy because their local schools had too many black/asian pupils , and I despised them as ignorant racists , but I have to admit if I had  a daughter I wouldn't want her to go to some of the schools near me . I'd always been told that the veil / burqa was something to be adopted at puberty but I regularly see little girls of six or seven walking round under swathes of black cloth . British schoolgirls shouldn't be educated in an environment where the message  is being pushed that the female form , even hair , is deeply shameful and has to be covered up
      I'm not convinced by the argument that men who try to use coercion can be prosecuted - I think it is very hard for girls and women to stand up to some of these men . I have every respect for women like Berberella who manage it , but how many more are there cowering behind their front doors , because they're too young to leave home and support themselves , or they've been flown in from the pakistan or Bangladesh , and don't know anyone outside their husbands family , or can't speak a word of the language ?
       The fact that we tolerate this stuff is helping to perpetuate it .
       I can't see the Pat condell video , but I watched a bit of the BBC programme an dit made me really angry - Yvonne Ridley has spent the last few years cheerleading for the  Taliban  - she went to university and earns a good living as a journalist , while her little friends throw acid at girls who're trying to go to school . And Bidisha would probably be stoned if she ever set foot in saudi arabia or Iran
  • Re: Ban the Burka/Niqab?
     Reply #59 - June 30, 2009, 07:52 AM

    why muslim women get respect and non-muslim women disrespect

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbSOvS8MFuQ


    Very biased and prejudiced video.

    The women in Bikinis have no problem with what those idiot men would think about them and are very confident and happy people.

    The women in Islamic clothes appear to be dominated with an insecurity about what other people think about them, and they cover themselves up because of this insecurity that is placed upon them.

    Of course, not every non muslim woman walks around in a bikini either, mostly in warm weather only the arms and legs are uncovered in normal western clothing for summer. I do not have any less respect for people based on what they are wearing, the people in that video who do are just pathetic anyway.


     
    Quote
    People working for a public service or dealing with customers shouldn't be allowed to hide their faces . And it should be banned in schools


    Exactly this. People can wear whatever they want at home and in their religious building. But in any public service, employment, and school, covering the face should not be allowed at all.

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
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