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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Women to blame
  • Yes, she should dress differently if she doesn't want to be touched by strangers - 4 (14.8%)
  • No, the onus is on the shitty men who have no idea what boundaries are - 23 (85.2%)
  • Total Voters: 27

 Topic: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!

 (Read 12533 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     OP - July 14, 2009, 08:45 AM
    I went out clubbing this weekend, and spent alot of the night fending off PHYSICAL moves from guys that literally just grabbed me, or tried to kiss me without my permission, or even a hint of an invite, squashing me, grinding up on me etc etc.  I'm sure you get the picture.

    Actually it was the worst hassle I have had in well, since I was in morocco aged 13 and I was groped by men no matter where I went, even to the shops.

    Now, the guys that were being physical were all asian guys, pakistanis or inidians I;m not sure.  So I can see the motive behind their actions.  My outfit would have driven them nuts, but what I didn;t expect was the reaction from people not of that culture, when I had a vent about it on another site I use.

    I was told by many different posters, that if you dress a certain way or dance a certain way, then I shouldn't be surprised.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/bonfire/19234-hands-off-i-don-t-even-know-you.html

    Wait, what?

    So an explanation makes this ok?  because we can rationalise the cause and effect, we can forgive the effect?

    Let's not forget, the last time I made a thread here asking for advice on how to make a move on a man I was also advised to be careful what I was wearing so as not to give off the wrong signals.  This I put down to the fact that we are mostly ex muslims so we are all harbouring a few silly backwards ideas.

    Lo and behold, I am wrong.

    How maddeningly frustrating.

    I'm attaching a poll because I would like to see how many of the members here think that a woman is responsible for the reaction men have to her if she is just innocently dancing to a song she enjoys wearing an outfit she likes.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #1 - July 14, 2009, 08:52 AM
    Quote
    I would like to see how many of the members here think that a woman is responsible for the reaction men have to her if she is just innocently dancing to a song she enjoys wearing an outfit she likes.


    You're not responsible but you know how people work Berbs. It's gunna happen. If I were you I'd just punch them if they groped you.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #2 - July 14, 2009, 09:13 AM
    Yeah, I know it's going to get attention, but the way the attention manifests itself is where the problem lies.

    There is nothing wrong with hitting on a girl because she has caught your attention, either by the outfit, the dance or any other cues you think are being sent your way, but physical touching should only be by invitation.

    I'm not stupid, I know there are rapists out there, but I wasn't out alone, in a dark alley, or running an excessive risk, I was in a well lit club, full of people with no intention of accepting a drink off a man, leaving my drink unsupervised, or walking home, taking only a licensed taxi cab.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #3 - July 14, 2009, 09:18 AM
    "Ya ayuhal rijaal! Thou shalt not touch women without their permission, only but a tap on the shoulder to get their attention is permissable before such granting of permission for more touching is attained." Roll Eyes Those guys were losers.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #4 - July 14, 2009, 09:27 AM
    Yeah, pretty much.  If I'm walking past too quickly you can lightly tug my wrist to make me trun around, but grabbing me and pulling me back, running your hands all over me, and then trying to kiss me and stick your tongue down my throat all whilst I am trying to struggle out of your unwelcome grip is just too fucking much.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #5 - July 14, 2009, 09:30 AM
    I would beat the crap of a guy if he dared to do that to me!
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #6 - July 14, 2009, 11:11 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on July 14, 2009, 09:30 AM
    I would beat the crap of a guy if he dared to do that to me!


    Amen to that!

    Berbs, when I get back, you, me and Peru should meet up and go clubbing. That way, the three musketeerette's can sort some testosterone raging men.  dance
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #7 - July 14, 2009, 11:18 AM
    Cheesy that would be awesome!
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #8 - July 14, 2009, 11:21 AM
    Oooh I'm game.  bunny

    You ladies can show me how it's done.  Tongue
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #9 - July 14, 2009, 11:27 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 09:27 AM
    Yeah, pretty much.  If I'm walking past too quickly you can lightly tug my wrist to make me trun around, but grabbing me and pulling me back, running your hands all over me, and then trying to kiss me and stick your tongue down my throat all whilst I am trying to struggle out of your unwelcome grip is just too fucking much.


    Stop it BerberElla! You turn me on! Peek a boo You can write very good erotic novels I see!! You can be rich doing that!! Afro


    Damn!!! and now I need to explain to my wife what I have just posted!! finmad
    ...
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #10 - July 14, 2009, 11:57 AM
     Cheesy

    Oh believe me, when I want to write erotica, I am masterful at it.  That wasn't erotic to me at all.  Tongue
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #11 - July 14, 2009, 12:19 PM
    Quote
    when I want to write erotica, I am masterful at it


    Send me a manuscript!! Maybe I can get you a deal!! parrot
    ...
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #12 - July 14, 2009, 01:12 PM
    If you go out clubbing dressed to entice, you will entice.

    In a bar you have :

    1. Young men filled with testosterone
    2. Alcohol which quickly lowers inhibitions
    3. Music
    4. Dancing in close proximity

    and you dressed in an "outfit you like" - what does that mean? maybe you like a dress that reveals your panties or maybe its just a pair of jeans. But if its the former, you have to ask yourself some questions.

    If on the other hand, you want to see what happens when males become neutered and stop this kind of behavior, go to Scandinavia, Norway in Particular. Men dont dare approach women (or just little interest) and women are dead bored. The same women end up going to Barcelona where men act more like men.

    Bottom line, its very difficult to control male sexuality and there are risks involved in enticement (which Im not claiming you were necessarilly doing)

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #13 - July 14, 2009, 01:23 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on July 14, 2009, 01:12 PM
    If you go out clubbing dressed to entice, you will entice.

    In a bar you have :

    1. Young men filled with testosterone


    And this means what?  that it's justifiable?

    Quote
    2. Alcohol which quickly lowers inhibitions


    Not for everyone, and again not a valid excuse.

    Quote
    3. Music


    What does the fact that there is music there, have to do with being physically groped by someone as you make your way to the bar?

    Quote
    4. Dancing in close proximity


    People walk in close proximity to me, I don't reach out and grab them without their permission.


    Quote
    and you dressed in an "outfit you like" - what does that mean? maybe you like a dress that reveals your panties or maybe its just a pair of jeans. But if its the former, you have to ask yourself some questions.


    What questions?

    I wore the same outfit that was in my http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4816.0 thread, just in different colours.  Why should this be an invitation for groping?

    It's an invitation to look no doubt, but to touch?  no way.

    Quote

    If on the other hand, you want to see what happens when males become neutered and stop this kind of behavior, go to Scandinavia, Norway in Particular. Men dont dare approach women (or just little interest) and women are dead bored. The same women end up going to Barcelona where men act more like men.

    Bottom line, its very difficult to control male sexuality and there are risks involved in enticement (which Im not claiming you were necessarilly doing)




    Bullshit, you are calling men completely weak, unable to control their baser instincts, this isn't a valid excuse, it's a cop out.

    It's a typical blame the women for the mans own inability to control himself and it's wrong.

    Yet you say that some nations have men who have managed to control this thing you say is so hard to control?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #14 - July 14, 2009, 01:31 PM
    Yeah they've managed but their men have lost a lot of that "edge" which ironically is what many women are after.



    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #15 - July 14, 2009, 01:32 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 14, 2009, 01:23 PM

    I wore the same outfit that was in my http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4816.0 thread, just in different colours.  Why should this be an invitation for groping?




    What? the first pic in the thread?!
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #16 - July 14, 2009, 01:33 PM
    I don't see the edge in a groping idiot though, I see the edge in a gentleman, who unleashes that all after he has been give express permission to do so.

    Most girl loves the idea of a vampire, but notice how they have to be invited in first.  Wink
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #17 - July 14, 2009, 01:35 PM
    Well, you should expect that kind of negative attention if you dress all super hot and now you probably do.

    Should you have to expect it? No. We should live in a world where people should expect to be respected no matter what they wear.

    I suppose you could have told a bouncer to toss the offenders out, or complained to a bigger guy about the gropper to start a fight.

    It's a bit difficult for me to judge without seeing some pics. Please forward all erotic pics to Alibaba@gaza.net

    BAfroB
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #18 - July 14, 2009, 01:35 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on July 14, 2009, 01:32 PM
    What? the first pic in the thread?!


    Yes, what's wrong with it? lol my vest was a black one like it, and my heels were black, and my denim shorts were darker.  It was an awesome look.

    Your shock makes me think that you are even more convinced that it is acceptable.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #19 - July 14, 2009, 01:39 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on July 14, 2009, 01:35 PM
    Well, you should expect that kind of negative attention if you dress all super hot and now you probably do.



     finmad  finmad  finmad  finmad banghead  finmad  finmad  finmad  finmad

    Lmao makes me so mad.

    Quote
    Should you have to expect it? No. We should live in a world where people should expect to be respected no matter what they wear.

    I suppose you could have told a bouncer to toss the offenders out, or complained to a bigger guy about the gropper to start a fight.

    It's a bit difficult for me to judge without seeing some pics. Please forward all erotic pics to Alibaba@gaza.net

    BAfroB




    Well my friend's male friends dealt with him, the worst offender, but it still pisses me off that people can't respect simple easy to follow instructions.

    Look but don't touch.

    If your friends wife is dressed skimpy, do you touch just because she looks like she wants it?  or would that be a boundary?
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #20 - July 14, 2009, 01:40 PM
    Acceptable?

    Did you start this thread and ask this question so you can start misrepresenting the answer of anyone who dares to disagree?

     
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #21 - July 14, 2009, 01:42 PM
    No, sorry if I am mistaken.  It's not my intention to appear as if your disagreement is super bad, I am actually interested.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #22 - July 14, 2009, 01:44 PM
    There's nothing wrong with that outfit.

    I wore tank tops and short shorts in the middle of summer during the daytime here in Oz...minus the heels ofcourse.

    Men don't go crazy groping at beaches...where girls are dressed in bikinis. Jeez.

    There's this weird misconception that all girls go clubbing to 'hook up'. I go because I love dancing and I love music...

    This is why my boyfriend is skeptical about me going clubbing when I go back to the UK. He is worried about how other men will treat me.  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #23 - July 14, 2009, 01:48 PM
    I know, and there are drunk men on the beach too, so it's not like alcohol can be blamed.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #24 - July 14, 2009, 01:51 PM
    Im not saying they are right to grope you (or have a right to grope you) but you need to expect this with drunken young males especially when you dress enticingly.  That's just biology.

    For example, Im sure you would think twice about wearing the same dress and going out clubbing in Kingston, Jamaica (I know the local girls do)

    By the same token, if Im going to Compton Los Angeles Ill make sure not to have dollar hanging out of my pocket.
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #25 - July 14, 2009, 01:53 PM
    Quote from: heartbomb on July 14, 2009, 01:44 PM
    There's nothing wrong with that outfit.

    I wore tank tops and short shorts in the middle of summer during the daytime here in Oz...minus the heels ofcourse.

    Men don't go crazy groping at beaches...where girls are dressed in bikinis. Jeez.

    There's this weird misconception that all girls go clubbing to 'hook up'. I go because I love dancing and I love music...



    Not all of course, but there's an undeniable sexual element.

    Why do you think most fights at clubs have to do with girls?
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #26 - July 14, 2009, 01:55 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on July 14, 2009, 01:51 PM


    By the same token, if Im going to Compton Los Angeles Ill make sure not to have dollar hanging out of my pocket.


    So you are comparing men exposed to women's skin, to a thief exposed to money? Really?

    Men really don't have that much self control?  Huh?


    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on July 14, 2009, 01:53 PM
    Not all of course, but there's an undeniable sexual element.

    Why do you think most fights at clubs have to do with girls?


    Because guys feel like they are the alpha male and control 'their women'?

    There's no sexual element to me dressing in a bikini going swimming in the ocean or sunbathing to relax...just as there is no sexual element in me dressing comfortably enough (so that I don't get too hot when dancing) when I go clubbing. So no, you are wrong in saying it's undeniable.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #27 - July 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
    It could be worse, look at this....

    Several Sudanese women have been flogged as a punishment for dressing "indecently", according to a local journalist who was arrested with them.

    Lubna Ahmed al-Hussein, who says she is facing 40 lashes, said she and 12 other women wearing trousers were arrested in a restaurant in the capital, Khartoum.

    She told the BBC several of the women had pleaded guilty to the charges and had 10 lashes immediately.

    Khartoum, unlike South Sudan, is governed by Sharia law.

    Several of those punished were from the mainly Christian and animist south, Ms Hussein said.

    Non-Muslims are not supposed to be subject to Islamic law, even in Khartoum and other parts of the mainly Muslim north.

    She said that a group of about 20 or 30 police officers entered the popular Khartoum restaurant and arrested all the women wearing trousers.

    "I was wearing trousers and a blouse and the 10 girls who were lashed were wearing like me, there was no difference," she told the BBC's Arabic service.

    Ms Hussein said some women pleaded guilty to "get it over with" but others, including herself, chose to speak to their lawyers and are awaiting their fates.

    Under Sharia law in Khartoum, the normal punishment for "indecent" dressing is 40 lashes.

    Ms Hussein is a well-known reporter who writes a weekly column called Men Talk for Sudanese papers. She also works for the United Nations Mission in Sudan.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8147329.stm
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #28 - July 14, 2009, 01:58 PM
    Like Berbs said, you wouldn't make a move on a mate's wife no matter her dress.
  • Re: Women to blame still a pervasive attitude, even in the west!
     Reply #29 - July 14, 2009, 02:01 PM
    Quote from: Arab-Wannabe on July 14, 2009, 01:51 PM
    Im not saying they are right to grope you (or have a right to grope you) but you need to expect this with drunken young males especially when you dress enticingly.  That's just biology.

    For example, Im sure you would think twice about wearing the same dress and going out clubbing in Kingston, Jamaica (I know the local girls do)


    Really?  because it's the opposite amongst all the jamaican girls I know lol they go raving in kingston jamaica wearing bikini's, my friend showed me a picture of her whilst she was out there, she is jamaican, and she wore a see through dress, no bra and a white thong.



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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