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Theme Changer

 Topic: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)

 (Read 10251 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     OP - July 29, 2009, 08:39 PM
    Let's face it, Islam is a very Arab-centric religion. The Arab customs, habits, food, clothes and of course language of the Arabs has been raised to Divine status as a result of Islam.

    How did (does) that make you feel?

    Did it play a part in you leaving Islam?

    I personally hated the hierarchy amongst Muslims that always placed the Arabs at the top in whatever meeting or gathering one was at - and I am part Arab!

    I also didn't like the way that so many Asians tried to be "Arab" - it seemed demeaning to them and it didn't seem right.

    And let's face it - if you don't understand Arabic - you will never be able to win an argument with an Arab. ("Oh you don't understand the TRUE meaning of what God says - coz you don't understand Arabic")

    It is always assumed that any truly pious Muslim must try and learn Arabic.

    God is so parochial!

  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #1 - July 29, 2009, 08:59 PM
    Until I was an adult I always thought I was half Arab, half Circassian (I'm not, the arab side is actually fully Armenian converts). Ironically my dad made me feel half dirty for being half circassian as they were the much desired "white slave women" of the Ottoman empire and he liked to boast of his arabness, he even claimed his family was a "syed" family, as in, decendent of the prophet. The irony is that he himself is completely from an Armenian family. They have pretended to be arabs all of their lives so it ends up he was feeding his own inferiority complex with Arab supremism.

    Wahhabism is rich with arab supremism, in the Islamic society of my dads university Saudi Arabians were placed at the top of the social structure, then other gulf arabs and then North Africans and Levantines and finally others, thus valuing arabness at the top and the highest arabs with the highest honor. Of course, if you had asked them if they were racist they wouldn't say yes, it was just inherent.

    I think some forms of Islam have arabic cultural supremecy because of assimilation, this is how Muslims conquered countries, through culture rather than through death, and thus remnants are still present in some societies. But, this wasn't a big factor for me, although I did laugh at my dad for pretending to be Arab in a multiethnic nation, but, its a trait of his wahhabi (yet Armenian converts less than 2 generations ago!) family.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #2 - July 29, 2009, 09:16 PM
    Of course my experiences are not exactly the same as others, for examply, with me it was just ethnicity, I was still "culturally arab", but life must be different for Indonesians, Malays, Persians, Indians, Pakistanis, East Africans etc etc etc, they would probably have been reminded that there culture isn't "islamic enough" maybe, or they might have asserted it, I know that the Persians retained their culture well despite Islam, and many words for even religious practices in Persian and Urdu (such as "Namaz" rather than "Salat") shows that they still tried to keep their culture in tact and adapt it to Islam.

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #3 - July 29, 2009, 09:39 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on July 29, 2009, 08:39 PM

    I also didn't like the way that so many Asians tried to be "Arab" - it seemed demeaning to them and it didn't seem right.



    I am going to give you a list of things that wind me up now.

    I know it shouldn't, but now it really irritates me when I see asian men and converts wearing a thawb. Religion should be about what you believe, not what you look like. How does dressing like a seventh century arab make you more holy than wearing jeans and a t shirt?

    My cousin was saying that at some point, he aims for his deen to be so strong, that he does not talk to any non Mahrams. Which led him onto a whole spiel about how the Pakistani family system is immoral and totally unislamic as non Mahrams mix all the time, and sometimes even live in the same house.

    My other cousin, who is a salafi, who's favourite subject is how "jahil" Pakistanis and Indians are. He finds it so easy to talk about how Pakistanis and Indian Muslims practice their own, personal religions, but never has anything to say about how Arab governments treat their people, or about radical Islam.

    The fact that you have Muslims who don't even understand Arabic, and who can't even read it properly, yet talk about how beautiful and moving it. They are obviously talking crap and just saying that because that is the official line. When I listen to "99 luftballons", it doesn't spark any emotions because I don't understand what Nina is on about!

    My rant is over!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #4 - July 29, 2009, 09:49 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on July 29, 2009, 09:39 PM
    The fact that you have Muslims who don't even understand Arabic, and who can't even read it properly, yet talk about how beautiful and moving it (is). They are obviously talking crap and just saying that because that is the official line


    Bingo!

    btw I love 99 red balloons - here's the English version for you  grin12

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14IRDDnEPR4
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #5 - July 29, 2009, 09:56 PM
    Even though I understand the English one, I think the german version is better! Probably because it reminds me of when Homer Simpson is singing it in German!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #6 - July 29, 2009, 10:11 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on July 29, 2009, 09:16 PM
    "Namaz" rather than "Salat") shows that they still tried to keep their culture in tact and adapt it to Islam.

    Yes,  "Namaz" derives from the sanskrit word Namaste, yet it is widely used amongst Pakistani & Indian muslims without knowing. 

    Kope, what do you call prayers?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #7 - July 29, 2009, 10:23 PM
    The funny thing is that if you say something in Arabic, and I mean anything at all (even if you curse Allah/Muhammad)... then most non-Arab Muslims would just assume that the words coming out of your mouth are good and pure and Islamic and whatnot.  They'll just turn into the religious mode.

    The Arabic language is just devine to the non-Arab Muslims because we only ever hear it during Islamic discourse, and we haven't got a clue what's being said!
    .
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #8 - July 29, 2009, 10:25 PM
    Exactly Shahid, sometimes some (especially South Asians) would often say normal phrases in Arabic just to holify them, it's like the language itself is God's own spoken word.

    Then again Modern arabic was developed in tune to the Quran. It was developed in a way to cover up and erase the linguistic and grammatical absurdities and mistakes in the Quran. So I suppose Arabic is very very intertwinned with Islam.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #9 - July 29, 2009, 10:26 PM
    Quote
    The Arabic language is just devine to the non-Arab Muslims

    I still enjoy the sound of Azan
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #10 - July 29, 2009, 10:31 PM
    Really? Have you ever heard it being blasted out from 50 directions at different times-all out of sync-five times a day, every day?

    I used to think it was beautiful, but live in Damascus for longer than 3 days and you'd want to rip out the tapes from every casette recorder in every Minaret.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #11 - July 29, 2009, 10:31 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on July 29, 2009, 10:23 PM
    The funny thing is that if you say something in Arabic, and I mean anything at all (even if you curse Allah/Muhammad)... then most non-Arab Muslims would just assume that the words coming out of your mouth are good and pure and Islamic and whatnot.  They'll just turn into the religious mode.

    The Arabic language is just devine to the non-Arab Muslims because we only ever hear it during Islamic discourse, and we haven't got a clue what's being said!


    It made me laugh the way a friend of mine hated when I chucked an Egyptian newspaper in the bin after I had read it - and took it out as if it was sacred. But it was only bullshit about who Mubarak had come visit that day, what match Zamalek was playing or  or what fashion show was taking place in Cairo lol  grin12
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #12 - July 29, 2009, 10:35 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on July 29, 2009, 10:26 PM
    I still enjoy the sound of Azan


    I like the musical one that you can still hear in parts of the Muslim world - but I HATE the Salafi one - they just shout it in the harshest way possible (coz they don't want it to sound musical coz music is haram  Roll Eyes )
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #13 - July 29, 2009, 10:35 PM
    Listen to this with you're eyes closed

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAvlimEYEpQ

    Is it weirdly hypnotic, or is it just me?  sheikh
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #14 - July 29, 2009, 10:40 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on July 29, 2009, 10:31 PM
    It made me laugh the way a friend of mine hated when I chucked an Egyptian newspaper in the bin after I had read it - and took it out as if it was sacred. But it was only bullshit about who Mubarak had come visit that day, what match Zamalek was playing or  or what fashion show was taking place in Cairo lol  grin12


    Reminds me of my mum who will never throw any religous things written in Arabic away, she has a garage with cardboard boxes full of this literature.  I even offered to throw it away for her, as she knows I am not bothered, but that just pissed her off even more. 

    What a great way of conserving Islamic literature for brainwashing future generations!

    Islam is truly inspired, just not in the way most Muslims think.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #15 - July 30, 2009, 12:01 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on July 29, 2009, 10:31 PM
    It made me laugh the way a friend of mine hated when I chucked an Egyptian newspaper in the bin after I had read it - and took it out as if it was sacred. But it was only bullshit about who Mubarak had come visit that day, what match Zamalek was playing or  or what fashion show was taking place in Cairo lol  grin12



    I would always keep any paper with Allah's name on it or any book about Islam or the Qur'an on the highest shelf in my room. Did anybody else do this? Oddly I had the same attitude towards the Bible. I once saw a bible on the floor in my school and I picked it up, put it back on the shelf and felt like I had done a great service to Allah.#

    I also used to keep my own New Testament on the highest shelf in my room. It's weird how even when I was converting to Islam, I kept reading from and receiving inspiration from the New Testament. I felt as if it had a role to play in my converting to Islam. When my brother finally smuggled a Qur'an into my house (my mother would have gone mental) and wow I was so excited. My heart was pumping when I first opened it to read it. I gotta admit I was quite disappointed. I was expecting it to be as thrilling a read as the New Testament, but I really couldn't relate to it at all. I found it hard to understand too (it was Pickthall's translation). Funnily enough that was the first time AND the last time I opened the Qur'an to give it a good read like I would read the New Testament. I still gave it a shelf even higher than I kept the New Testament though  Smiley
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #16 - July 30, 2009, 12:16 AM
    Quote
    When my brother finally smuggled a Qur'an into my house (my mother would have gone mental) and wow I was so excited. My heart was pumping when I first opened it to read it. I gotta admit I was quite disappointed. I was expecting it to be as thrilling a read as the New Testament, but I really couldn't relate to it at all. I found it hard to understand too (it was Pickthall's translation). Funnily enough that was the first time AND the last time I opened the Qur'an to give it a good read like I would read the New Testament. I still gave it a shelf even higher than I kept the New Testament though   

     


    I'm curious.  Why did you convert to Islam if you were disappointed with the Qur'an when you read it?

    I'm also curious, why did you find the New Testament a thrilling read?   Huh?

    Final nosey question - why did you think it was in any way significant to keep one book on a higher up shelf than another?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #17 - July 30, 2009, 12:39 AM
    well, he lied
    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #18 - July 30, 2009, 12:47 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 30, 2009, 12:16 AM
    I'm curious.  Why did you convert to Islam if you were disappointed with the Qur'an when you read it?


    Because I believed that Islam was a more complete form of Christianity and I always had a problem getting to grips with the Trinity. I believed in one god and because Islam preached one god, then it meant Islam must've been the true religion. I was young and ignorant. I assumed that I simply couldn't understand the Qur'an and that once I learnt more or learnt Arabic then the Qur'an would have more meaning to me. Plus, the sound of the Qur'an being recited alone sounded so beautiful to me, no matter what the meaning was!

    Quote
    I'm also curious, why did you find the New Testament a thrilling read?   Huh?


    I find it easier to read and the New Testament has a fair number of inspirational passages.

    Quote
    Final nosey question - why did you think it was in any way significant to keep one book on a higher up shelf than another?


    Out of respect. Just like you would put 1st place in a competition of some sort on a platform higher than 2nd and 3rd.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #19 - July 30, 2009, 12:58 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on July 30, 2009, 12:16 AM
    Why did you convert to Islam if you were disappointed with the Qur'an when you read it?



    good question



    he lied
    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #20 - July 30, 2009, 07:24 AM
    Quote from: J4m3z on July 30, 2009, 12:01 AM
    I would always keep any paper with Allah's name on it ...


    Oh yes, at Islamia School we weren't allowed to throw anything with Allah's name on it in the bin - but we were allowed to burn it. (We ended up with lots of old, well thumbed Qur'ans with torn pages and pages missing that no-one was sure what to do with.)
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #21 - July 30, 2009, 07:55 AM
    stfu kope.

    Quote from: Jami' Tirmidhi, Vol: 2
    Allah chose as the best the children af Ismael ibn Ibrahim. From Ismael's descendants, Allah chose the Qureysh as the best of people; from the Qureysh, Allah chose the Banu Hashim as the best of people, and from the Banu Hashim, Allah chose Muhammad as the best of all men..

    Quote from: Last Khutbah
    There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a non-Arab over an Arab, nor for the white over the black nor for black over the white except in piety.

    I remember the Imam (Afro-American convert) was talking about the superiority of Arabs over non-Arabs, and I argued with him with the latter hadith, but there is much that contradicts it.

    I hate 'chosen' people. Fuck Allah for playing favourites, and leaving the rest of the world to wallow in misguidance, inferior. finmad

    It didn't bother me so much when I was muslim, though I wished I had been born Arab, or sayyid (Ideally when Muhammad walked Grin) Roll Eyes.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #22 - July 30, 2009, 02:46 PM
    I am glad you have raised this issue Hassan because for me it was key. I never liked the self-righteous attitude of many religious (and non-religious) Arabs and I hated the Arab-centric nature of most Islamic groups. For me leaving Islam coincided with developing a dislike for all things Arab in general and this view was consolidated in my trip to Saudi a few years ago.

    Asians who try to be Arab ae perhaps the most annoying of all.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #23 - July 30, 2009, 06:47 PM
    Quote from: pakman on July 30, 2009, 02:46 PM
    I am glad you have raised this issue Hassan because for me it was key. I never liked the self-righteous attitude of many religious (and non-religious) Arabs and I hated the Arab-centric nature of most Islamic groups. For me leaving Islam coincided with developing a dislike for all things Arab in general and this view was consolidated in my trip to Saudi a few years ago.

    Asians who try to be Arab ae perhaps the most annoying of all.


    Pakman, what you just wrote there could so easily have been written by me! That sounds like my life (except the going to saudi part).
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #24 - July 30, 2009, 08:05 PM
    Quote

    Asians who try to be Arab ae perhaps the most annoying of all.



    I'm not even Asian and even I get annoyed by this! It seems to be increasingly popular with UK asians.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #25 - July 30, 2009, 08:09 PM
    its sunnat to be like the prophet, so I am not sure if its a 'trying to be arab' thing, as most Muslims dont hold arabs & their culture in high regard in any case
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #26 - July 30, 2009, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on July 30, 2009, 08:09 PM
    its sunnat to be like the prophet, so I am not sure if its a 'trying to be arab' thing, as most Muslims dont hold arabs & their culture in high regard in any case


    But it is a trying to be arab thing though. Muhammad was a very arab person. He dressed like an arab, he had arab customs etc. So to try and be like Muhammad is to try to be like the best arab.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #27 - July 30, 2009, 08:14 PM
    Good point but some people take it too far, for example wearing a thawb, using a miswak, trying not to laugh too much (hadith) I've even heard of some people trying to eat a lot of certain foods because they are mentioned in Hadith as foods the prophet enjoyed, for example, dates, honey and even butternut squash (which was one of the prophets favourite foods)

    I mean, c'mon  Cheesy!
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #28 - July 30, 2009, 08:16 PM
    Quote from: FinallyFree on July 30, 2009, 08:14 PM
    Good point but some people take it too far, for example wearing a thawb, using a miswak, trying not to laugh too much (hadith) I've even heard of some people trying to eat a lot of certain foods because they are mentioned in Hadith as foods the prophet enjoyed, for example, dates, honey and even butternut squash (which was one of the prophets favourite foods)

    I mean, c'mon  Cheesy!


    You just reminded me of a time when I bought some Honey Nut Cheerios and told my mate I bought them because it is sunnah to eat them! (I was joking by the way).
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: A Question to Non-Arab Ex-Muslims (and Muslims)
     Reply #29 - July 30, 2009, 08:20 PM
    Quote

    You just reminded me of a time when I bought some Honey Nut Cheerios and told my mate I bought them because it is sunnah to eat them! (I was joking by the way).



    Nice one lol. You must have been in with a faily easy growing crowd, if I had said that around the salafi community growing up I would have got a slap (ironically though slaps are haram considering the face is "Presented to Allah" during Salat but most Muslims don't seem to care about this rule).

    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »