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 Topic: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...

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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #30 - August 01, 2009, 09:29 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on August 01, 2009, 09:20 PM
    I'm curious, is the original poster Bangladeshi by any chance?


    I believe she is of Bangladeshi origin.
  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #31 - August 01, 2009, 09:30 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 01, 2009, 09:29 PM
    I believe she is of Bangladeshi origin.

    Good to know. Afro
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #32 - August 01, 2009, 09:31 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on August 01, 2009, 09:26 PM
    For her sake, I hope she has some direct family links to Bangladeshis to be producing this sort posts.

    Why?
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #33 - August 01, 2009, 09:36 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 01, 2009, 09:31 PM
    Why?


    Because it would be racially bias for her to slam a culture/race if she had no direct links to it. That would be like me collectively labeling Arabs or Blacks in a negative manner simply based on few bad experiences I may or may not have had with the two groups.
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #34 - August 01, 2009, 09:37 PM
    Quote from: AmdanAbla on August 01, 2009, 07:56 PM
    I`m addicted to Hyacinte.I have entire episodes on DVD.Everyday I put it on before go to bed and fall a sleep with a smile on me face.To the manor born is another addiction of mine(especially dear Audrey and Mrs Poo dance)


    lol I imagine she would be good for driving everything else from your mind before bed Smiley

    I'll have to check out To the manor born, thanks!
  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #35 - August 01, 2009, 09:46 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on August 01, 2009, 09:36 PM
    Because it would be racially bias for her to slam a culture/race if she had no direct links to it. That would be like me collectively labeling Arabs or Blacks in a negative manner simply based on few bad experiences I may or may not have had with the two groups.


    Even if she was a Bangali who lived her entire life in a Bangali community that doesn't mean she isn't bias and/or wrong.  We're not very good as sorting through our personal experiences and from that forming accurate descriptions of other's behaviour; and you can pretty much forget about accurately interpreting the causes for peoples' behaviour with "intuition" and personal experiences.  Modern science, with all the technology it has at its disposal, is far from being able to do that!
  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #36 - August 01, 2009, 09:51 PM
    Quote from: cwar068 on August 01, 2009, 09:46 PM
    Even if she was a Bangali who lived her entire life in a Bangali community that doesn't mean she isn't bias and/or wrong.  We're not very good as sorting through our personal experiences and from that forming accurate descriptions of other's behaviour; and you can pretty much forget about accurately interpreting the causes for peoples' behaviour with "intuition" and personal experiences.  Modern science, with all the technology it has at its disposal, is far from being able to do that!



    I see your point, and I agree to some extent. However, being a Bangali gives one sort of an unique position to criticize. Much like how ex-Muslims have an unique position for criticizing Islam. That being said, I do agree with you that the person can still be bias--or at least have a distorted view.

    But I do think it would've looked worse if she wasn't Bangali and was bashing the culture and the people based on simple minor experiences.
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #37 - August 01, 2009, 10:09 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on August 01, 2009, 09:51 PM

    I see your point, and I agree to some extent. However, being a Bangali gives one sort of an unique position to criticize. Much like how ex-Muslims have an unique position for criticizing Islam. That being said, I do agree with you that the person can still be bias--or at least have a distorted view.

    But I do think it would've looked worse if she wasn't Bangali and was bashing the culture and the people based on simple minor experiences.


    I think we pretty much agree!  I can imagine that if she is a Bangali and those opinions are important to her then it may make it harder for her to find a solution and think outside of those negative ideas. 
  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #38 - August 01, 2009, 10:16 PM
    Quote from: cwar068 on August 01, 2009, 10:09 PM
    I think we pretty much agree!  I can imagine that if she is a Bangali and those opinions are important to her then it may make it harder for her to find a solution and think outside of those negative ideas. 


    Well as I said few posts ago, I can understand where she is coming from, and I too agree to some of the things she mentioned because I noticed them as well. However, personal judgments based on few bad experiences doesn't necessarily mean the collective is rotten. Which is something I always remind my self, and also other ex-Muslims of whenever I can, before criticizing Islam.
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #39 - August 01, 2009, 10:25 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on August 01, 2009, 09:51 PM
    But I do think it would've looked worse if she wasn't Bangali and was bashing the culture and the people based on simple minor experiences.

    I used to agree with what you said above, but have recently undergone a metamorphosis and believe anyone can criticise cultures whether you are from them or not.  If someone criticises my ancestral culture, I would most probably agree with them unless they were wrong. Pakman recently criticised my home town, but it was water of a ducks back - he is entitled to his opinion.   

    For me now it depends on which angle they are coming from, if they are relating genuine experiences then it does not bother me, as all cultures ARE all different, some bits good , some  bad - but thats how we learn to about ourselves and introspection allows us to change for the better.  Reminds me of our thread on Islamaphobia vs. legitimate criticism of Islam.

    Talking about your example with Afro-Caribbeans - its male culture is egocentric, does that make me a racist?  Even if its not true, that makes me wrong, but racist??  Before anyone says it - I am not saying for one moment such generalisations apply to everyone, we are not talking about individuals, but to the culture itself.

    I believe the racist tag has become hijacked and was intended for people who discriminate on the basis of colour or nationality, I dont think it is fair to apply it to criticism of cultures, otherwise we will never learn and remain stagnant.
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #40 - August 01, 2009, 10:51 PM
    You completely misunderstood me Islame. I don't mind if someone criticizes a culture--as you said, and I agree, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    However the OP was bashing the culture and the people. She claimed Bangalis are all jealous people. That's generalization. It's no different than you saying "all black are jail bound." Does that make you a racist? Perhaps not a racist, but racially bias definitely.


    Quote from: IsLame on August 01, 2009, 10:25 PM
    Talking about your example with Afro-Caribbeans - its male culture is egocentric, does that make me a racist?  Even if its not true, that makes me wrong, but racist??  Before anyone says it - I am not saying for one moment such generalisations apply to everyone, we are not talking about individuals, but to the culture itself.


    If you're saying it doesn't apply to everyone, then make the distinction...something which the OP failed to do.

    You can criticize different cultures all you want. For your sake I hope you're accurate to save yourself from the embarrassment of being wrong. I criticize the Bangali culture too, but I make the distinction between the people and the culture itself. The moment when you bring the people in as being "something" negative, then yeah, you should have the "racist" card pulled on you.




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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #41 - August 01, 2009, 11:00 PM
    You're right, Ive just re-read her original post

    Quote
    firstly they are an incredibly jealous, and I mean JEALOUS people


    and there is no distinction between poeple and culture - in effect this will also apply to you & you're family  Roll Eyes
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #42 - August 01, 2009, 11:01 PM
    Glad you caught on Islame  Smiley
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #43 - August 01, 2009, 11:06 PM
    I usually get there in the end
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #44 - August 02, 2009, 07:24 AM
    Very good and thoughtful points, Tommy, cwar068 & IsLame Afro

    Criticism is hard to take at the best of times. But when it is done by someone who doesn't have a good understanding of the thing they are criticising or basing it on limited experience then it makes it even worse. (And even worse if they are basing their criticism on hatred and bigotry - as in the case of some critics of Islam.)

    (btw Marmalade this is not directed at you - this was a general statement Smiley )

  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #45 - August 02, 2009, 08:37 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 02, 2009, 07:24 AM
    Very good and thoughtful points, Tommy, cwar068 & IsLame Afro

    Criticism is hard to take at the best of times. But when it is done by someone who doesn't have a good understanding of the thing they are criticising or basing it on limited experience then it makes it even worse. (And even worse if they are basing their criticism on hatred and bigotry - as in the case of some critics of Islam.)

    (btw Marmalade this is not directed at you - this was a general statement Smiley )



    I'd like to ge to the bottom of this one.

    To summarise you are saying racism is ignorant ciriticism of a culture, yet it is not racist when it is intuitive criticism of a culture?  

    Who decides what is clever or stupid criticism?

    Can I say that I believe male Afro-Caribbean culture is macho & ego-centric?  

    I am not black nor do I have any direct experience of its culture, just what I have gleaned from observation, news & television?
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #46 - August 02, 2009, 08:53 AM
    I think all of us have a natural tendency to get defensive when others criticise our culture / country / beliefs etc. , but I don't agree that only members of a cultural group are entitled to voice criticism . Was it wrong for outsiders to criticise apartheid South Africa , nazi Germany or Pinochet's Chile ? I'm not bengali but I live in an area where around half the population is , am I supposed to pretend I don't notice them , or limit myself to saying how nice the food is ? We live in a multicultural society , that cuts both ways - your culture affects my culture . Plus I feel very strongly that all my fellow citizens are entitled to the same rights and protections as I am , and that they should be subject to the same laws . Cultural relativism can cover a multitude of sins
  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #47 - August 02, 2009, 01:46 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 02, 2009, 08:37 AM
    I'd like to ge to the bottom of this one.

    To summarise you are saying racism is ignorant ciriticism of a culture, yet it is not racist when it is intuitive criticism of a culture?  

    Who decides what is clever or stupid criticism?

    Can I say that I believe male Afro-Caribbean culture is macho & ego-centric?  

    I am not black nor do I have any direct experience of its culture, just what I have gleaned from observation, news & television?


    I'm not saying anyone has to 'decide' what is clever or stupid criticism.

    People can criticise what they like - how they like based on whatever small or large amount of knowledge they have.

    I'm saying criticism is more likely to be taken on board if it comes from someone who knows and understands what he is talking about and is not driven by other agendas (i.e. racist, religious etc...)

    Let's take criticising Islam as an example. From the point of view of a Muslim it is much easier to take criticism if it comes from someone who knows, understands and has some empathy with the person rather than - for example - someone who hates Pakis and wants them all out of the country.

    It's not rocket science.
  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #48 - August 02, 2009, 01:58 PM
    Related to this is when I took some Pakistani friends with me on a visit to Egypt (many years ago.). I spent a great deal of time talking about how awful things were, how terrible the bureaucracy, how anarchic the trafic was how so many ppl try to rip you off, how bent the coppers were and so on...

    All was fine until my Pakistani friends then decided to join me in criticising everything about the country (rather than saying how nice everything was - which they did at first.)

    This really upset me - and I then started defending Egypt and we ended up in an argument lol

    The thing is ppl are emotional about stuff like this - not cold and rational.

    If you want your criticsim to reach home then you need to think about how to present it.

    The problem is that a great deal of criticism is not aimed at changing 'hearts & minds' as they say - but just so ppl can rant and rave and let off steam.
  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #49 - August 02, 2009, 04:27 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 02, 2009, 08:37 AM
    Can I say that I believe male Afro-Caribbean culture is macho & ego-centric? 

    So can I say the above, if I have no direct experience of the culture? 
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #50 - August 02, 2009, 04:49 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 02, 2009, 04:27 PM
    So can I say the above, if I have no direct experience of the culture? 


    You can, because you're labeling a culture, not individual people. It's the same as me or you saying "Arab culture is sexist." No matter how wrong that claim may be, it still doesn't make our opinion racially bias. It's just massively distorted.
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #51 - November 26, 2009, 07:09 PM
    Sorry for the necro. But I'm Bangladeshi, so I gotta put in my 2c.

    As far as the OP is concerned I think your exaggerating a bit here. And your definitely stereotyping *every* bengali. I mean there is lots of truth to what you say, but it's still a bit unbalanced. Now, being born in the mideast and having been part of a circle of Bangladeshi families I would say personally I was lucky that my parents were very open-minded and compassionate people and the people we chilled with were the same as us. I have nothing but good memories as a kid about the Bengali community we associated with in the mideast. Coming to Canada that changed and I guess I got older and started noticing certain common traits among Bangladeshis. Small-mindedness, rudeness, jealousy, cheapness, superficiality, etc etc. However.. these are traits I noticed among pretty much ALL south asians. I would say my general impressions of Pakistanis and some north Indians are even worse. Only the Sikh punjabis are the ones that I found to be forthright and honest people. Rest of the south asians I felt were always backstabbing and dishonest types.

    Since coming to Canada I have associated less and less with the Bangladeshi community and find them to be rather boring and insulated. Pretty much since 20 (i'm 25 now) I have had minimal contact with Bangladeshis aside from my parents. I don't think I've been to a bengali "dawat" in over 2 years since my graduation and moving out of the parents. Not that I miss the, saris, panjabi, gossip and bangla tv. I inevitable used to end up babysitting the kids at these parties.. and damn, I don't know if its just me, but Bengalis tend to have the most annoying and hyper-active kids EVER!

    The only desis I'm still close with are the ones who are pretty much assimilated and culturally western like myself. I can't really relate to most other desis who are still 'in the loop'.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #52 - November 26, 2009, 07:22 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on November 26, 2009, 07:09 PM
    As far as the OP is concerned I think your exaggerating a bit here. And your definitely stereotyping *every* bengali. I mean there is lots of truth to what you say, but it's still a bit unbalanced.

    OK, would you mind providing something a little more balanced?
    Quote
    However.. these are traits I noticed among pretty much ALL south asians.. Small-mindedness, rudeness, jealousy, cheapness, superficiality, etc etc. I would say my general impressions of Pakistanis and some north Indians are even worse. Only the Sikh punjabis are the ones that I found to be forthright and honest people. Rest of the south asians I felt were always backstabbing and dishonest types.

    Thanks (although I would not have put it quite like that LoL, there is some truth in what you are saying  Wink)
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #53 - November 26, 2009, 07:35 PM
    Well I'm not really good at making generalizations that are 'balanced', since I think thats nearly impossible. Generalizations are by their nature unbalanced. But as far as what I said about south asians, its obviously exaggeration too Tongue but definitely not something I can even say would apply to 50% of people.

    Like a simple thing I notice among Bangladeshis that was true in the OP is the quick need for someone to diminish another. Bengalis are *rarely* happy for each other. Aunti goes "my son finished engineering" other auntie goes "oh lots of engineers nowadays, my son will be doctor soon hehe". I mean there's always this petty competition bullshit going on among the aunties and uncles.

    The other thing that annoys me about Bangladeshis especially, but true about south asians in general, is they have such a deep-seating inferiority complex when it comes to dealing with white people. Whenever they see a white girl in a sari come to an event they swarm around her and absolutely love her. Other times they are constantly suspicious of whites even over the most trivial matters. They also have an inferiority complex when dealing with Pakistanis. Of course this is mutual as Pakistanis look down on Bangladeshis as "darky" traitor musulmans and Bengalis know this very well.   Cheesy

    On the positive side I find the Bangladeshi community to be much more tolerant and open-minded when it comes to matters of religion. It's not un-common to see openly atheist bangladeshis saying what they please at parties or cultural events. There are fundamentalists too, but they know Bengalis will laugh off any attempt to shut down the conversations by takfiring anyone.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #54 - November 26, 2009, 07:51 PM
    I'm 100% Bangladeshi blood and I agree with a lot of what Marmalade-Lady says. One shouldn't generalize. But there is a normal distribution. And then there is a mean and a few deviations from it.

    I do agree with most of her thoughts including jealousy, arrogance, putting others down to feel big and lack of compassion. Quite honestly, I've seen it in myself even. My added thoughts are that the majority of Bangladeshi's lack emotional intelligence. I think the general lack of EQ definately directly correlates the corruption in Bangladesh (though there are other factors why it is a poor country, disease and yearly floods do not help).

    The only Bangladeshi's who deviate from this mean are usually people who live in cities and have higher ranking jobs in Dhaka. A relative works for HSBC in Dhaka, def high EQ. Another works for the army as a senior general, then another works at Standard Chartered - all have higher levels of EQ.

    But many of the unemployed, low service level workers in the UK I've noticed hold up to Marmalad-Lady's opinion. It's geographically and biologically related, I think.

    Kafirist: Yes Bangladeshi kids can have ADHD, I was most definitely one. Still am I think!

    I don't really associate myself with any Bengali's, even second generation.

    Quote
    On the positive side I find the Bangladeshi community to be much more tolerant and open-minded when it comes to matters of religion.

     Sorry I hugely disagree. Majority of Muslim Bengali's think nothing more that they are right and non-Muslims will go to hell.
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #55 - November 26, 2009, 07:58 PM
    I think there are a lot of differences between UK Bengalis and the Canadian ones. A vast majority here tend to be pretty highly educated. At least the one we associate with. But then again, our types are hardly that representative. There are hordes of newer and poorer Bangladeshis that live in the ethnic ghettoes in Toronto and Calgary's NE that we know nothing of.

    The ones my family associated with tended to be pretty tolerant people. And back home, one of my richest grand uncles is a pretty open and avowed atheist and communist.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #56 - November 26, 2009, 08:20 PM
    In defence of the OP can everyone keep in mind she is having a rant? Ranting leads to generalisations as it helps let off steam. I think many of you are taking her post a bit too seriously.
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #57 - November 26, 2009, 08:29 PM
    Good point. Forgot about the rant bit.

    Nah, not taking too seriously. I even said I agree with a lot of it.  whistling2
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #58 - November 26, 2009, 08:46 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on November 26, 2009, 08:20 PM
    In defence of the OP can everyone keep in mind she is having a rant? Ranting leads to generalisations as it helps let off steam. I think many of you are taking her post a bit too seriously.

    Well then take our responses as "rants" to the original OP. We're letting off our steam regarding her posts.  Tongue
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  • Re: Why I am also sick of Bangladeshi society...
     Reply #59 - November 26, 2009, 08:53 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on November 26, 2009, 07:51 PM
    The only Bangladeshi's who deviate from this mean are usually people who live in cities and have higher ranking jobs in Dhaka. A relative works for HSBC in Dhaka, def high EQ. Another works for the army as a senior general, then another works at Standard Chartered - all have higher levels of EQ.

    But many of the unemployed, low service level workers in the UK I've noticed hold up to Marmalad-Lady's opinion. It's geographically and biologically related, I think.


    +1.

    I think Bangalis in the UK, and in Saudi Arabia tend to have a general low reputation. It's a different picture in the U.S though.

    Btw, HO, I don't think there is anything such as 100% Bangali blood. Bangladesh's history is much like the history of U.S. Today's Bangladeshis are actually not really natives of the land. Then again, when you think about it, no one really is 100% of any particular race. They are all mixed. I've done a DNA test on myself and I came to discover that my sister and I are 20% Persian.
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