what it takes
OP - August 16, 2009, 04:16 AM
First a bit of background. Grew up as a shia moslem. Father was a bit of a pusher with the rules like the morning prayer and fasting. Fortunately mother wasn't so strict and mostly shielded me from the stuff. Always had an inquisitive mind since childhood, questioning everything, seeking proof and evidence. Also I detest absolute authority, which makes accepting religion a challenge. So I suppose that makes me an unconvinced moslem as a child and an atheist as an adult.
As I've grown older (mid-40's) I have become more hostile towards religion. Naturally islam gets the lion's share of my hostility since it's the one I was being deceived with. Left alone I won't fight religion, but if there ever was a war between religion and atheism, I won't be rooting for religion, islam or whatever.
So I listened to the recording (given in this thread: councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=6169.0) and the imam or whoever responding to a doubter's question sounds bored and indifferent. Same stuff I used to hear as a child, but at the root of it is the fact that it takes blind faith to believe and that makes it logical!
What strikes me is how at every turn these people use mundane metaphors and examples as persuasive argument but fail to mention that the divine domain should be vastly different from the human domain. When I walk into a building, I do not have the blueprint and the safety records, so I take a certain amount of risk entering, but:
1- I realize that there is a chance the building isn't safe and I feel no shame in expressing doubt. nor will there be death edicts issued upon my declaration of doubt.
2- I do not put blind faith in the builder, allowing him to command me to bow towards a black-clad cube in saudi arabia or go hungry for a month.
If these imams are 100% convinced of islam, then they should cast away their inane comparisons to the human realm and bring in the super-natural evidence. I mean they are talking about god's domain which is supposed to be absolutely untouchable and unassailable. Yet, all they have is a bunch of weak examples taken directly from human experiences, barely good enough to convince the weak and the gullible.
When I was a child what I wanted as proof of god was to see him. Eventually I learned that god's character has been skillfully constructed so a person can not sense him and must deduce its existence by looking at secondary evidence, say, trees or mountains. Nicely done.
But not so fast. Heaven and hell are described as real places with milk and honey and figs and fire and brimstone and other assorted goodies well within our range of sensory perceptions. So all I ask now is a verifiable tour of heaven and/or hell. Like a tour bus of sorts with a bunch of other trusted people present so I can confirm that it wasn't a dream. Even better if I can take my camera along and bring samples back. I don't even want to see people tortured and mutilated. Just a tour of the perimeter is good. This can't be that difficult for the almighty. I promise, upon return I will pray, fast, give up pork and alcohol and do whatever other silly rituals. But I still won't take part in any grotesque acts like beheading.
Topic: what it takes