Liberalism

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- Glen
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Liberalism
OP - August 21, 2009, 10:29 AM

I am a fan of liberal thought for the most part. I think as long as someones religion/culture is harmless to other people im all for embracing the differences in people.

I love living in the UK sometimes and seeing that people are becoming more liberal in the way they view the world and other people compared to even 10 years ago. Dont get me wrong, i still think many people are very small minded still but id say people here are more tolerant than before.

However, liberals i find are always at the mercy of being, well, fucked over. This is the danger in liberalism.

You see, a liberal government somethimes seem to think that just because they think everyone, even though they are different, are all equal and should embrace diversity...the people they give help to dont play by the same rules.

Liberals can view people and the world in a compassionate way which i agree with; but you have to not be too naive because the people you help out and give aid will take advantage of it, they will use the good nature against them as many people, in fact id say most of the worlds population are NOT liberal!

Any thoughts? do you think a balance has to be found? if so can you still be called liberal?
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #1 - August 21, 2009, 11:00 PM

Its a difficult question that I dont have the answer for. I know what the right thing to do is, but without being duplicitous its sometimes the wrong thing to do on a practical level.

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- Glen
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #2 - August 22, 2009, 07:00 PM

yep i think i know what your saying and i agree...
- Baal
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #3 - August 22, 2009, 07:19 PM

Quote from: Glen on August 21, 2009, 10:29 AM
I am a fan of liberal thought for the most part. I think as long as someones religion/culture is harmless to other people im all for embracing the differences in people.

I love living in the UK sometimes and seeing that people are becoming more liberal in the way they view the world and other people compared to even 10 years ago. Dont get me wrong, i still think many people are very small minded still but id say people here are more tolerant than before.

However, liberals i find are always at the mercy of being, well, fucked over. This is the danger in liberalism.

You see, a liberal government somethimes seem to think that just because they think everyone, even though they are different, are all equal and should embrace diversity...the people they give help to dont play by the same rules.

Liberals can view people and the world in a compassionate way which i agree with; but you have to not be too naive because the people you help out and give aid will take advantage of it, they will use the good nature against them as many people, in fact id say most of the worlds population are NOT liberal!

Any thoughts? do you think a balance has to be found? if so can you still be called liberal?

Hello Glen,

Being multi-cultural should not mean all-cultural. Just because someone is multi-cultural it does not meant they should accept all culture.

This is some examples of the All-Cultural idiot:
"I will embrace every culture, except Nazis, Nazis were really bad."
"I will embrace all culture, and all those revolutionaries, but chairman Mao, what a monster, he is really bad."

To be Multi-cultural, means you should ONLY accept, other cultures that believe in Multi-culturalism. If they do not play nice with other cultures, they are not to be accepted in your multi-cultural culture.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #4 - August 22, 2009, 07:50 PM

Quote from: Glen on August 21, 2009, 10:29 AM
You see, a liberal government somethimes seem to think that just because they think everyone, even though they are different, are all equal and should embrace diversity...the people they give help to dont play by the same rules.

I suppose everybody should share a certain core of basic values. See the problem is that everybody sees diversity as something that is necessary positive but that might not always be the case. For example a homophobe and a liberal have a diverse opinion on how LGBT people should be treated. That doesn?t mean however that both views are equally "positive" and should be embraced unquestionably even though they are diverse. One could say the same for "cultures" in general. Kenan Malik wrote a great essay on this called "All cultures are not equal" (http://reddiarypk.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/kenan06082009/. Point is nobody's values and points of views deserve respect a priori, and there is nothing non-liberal about it, quite the contrary.
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #5 - August 22, 2009, 07:59 PM

I'm increasingly coming round to the view that the whole idea of 'multiculturalism' is a well intentioned disaster . I think we need one culture , a culture that accepts diversity and allows space for different beliefs , but one that empasises certain values ( freedom of speech , belief / non belief , gender equality,sexuality ) as non negotiable core values
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #6 - August 22, 2009, 08:04 PM

Quote from: Glen on August 21, 2009, 10:29 AM
Liberals can view people and the world in a compassionate way which i agree with; but you have to not be too naive because the people you help out and give aid will take advantage of it, they will use the good nature against them as many people, in fact id say most of the worlds population are NOT liberal!

i worry about the same here in the usa. i hate the right-wing nut jobs, but sometimes i think the libs go too easy on the extremists to their own detriment. as much as i hate the jesus bangers here, i see them as necessary tools against the turbanites. most libs are just too damned tolerant and apologetic and that's a recipe for being swallowed up. jmo
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #7 - August 23, 2009, 12:13 AM

Liberalism doesn't have to mean being a wimp. The problem with too many liberals is that in their quest for tolerating differences, they end up not standing for anything, they end up believing that they have to tolerate intolerance. That's where I draw the line.

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Re: Liberalism
Reply #8 - August 23, 2009, 12:39 AM

Yep. Baal put it rather well.

Quote
To be Multi-cultural, means you should ONLY accept, other cultures that believe in Multi-culturalism. If they do not play nice with other cultures, they are not to be accepted in your multi-cultural culture.

Sums up the situation IMO. If people are not going to extend the same courtesies to you as you would like to extend to them then they can go forth and multiply.

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Re: Liberalism
Reply #9 - August 23, 2009, 01:14 AM

Quote from: Glen on August 21, 2009, 10:29 AM
Any thoughts? do you think a balance has to be found? if so can you still be called liberal?

I will tolerate almost anything.
The one thing i will not tolerant is intolerance itself as mentioned above.
If by courtesy society extends tolerance to someone/something and they do not play nice, then bets are off.

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- Glen
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Re: Liberalism
Reply #10 - August 23, 2009, 10:31 AM

hey all thanks for your thoughts on this!

I happen to agree with all of you mostly.

However, when we say liberalism and multiculturalism only applies to cultures and people who share a belief in the importance of difference - which i agree with...what happens if and when a culture that actually isnt tolerant rises up?

What happens then? do we all become partial nazis and try to clean them out of our society?

I think multiculturalism is in fact nothing more than just the rich faceless 'liberals' way of getting as many people to come to the west to work and maximise their profits. Ok - alot of people do have a better life over here, but i find that really - culture, national identity and so on mean nothing in the face of economic growth.
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