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 Topic: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.

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  • Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     OP - August 25, 2009, 09:09 PM
    Guy's have any of you seen this debate. I like Dan Barker and he's probably doing a better job than Dawkins. Harris and Hitchens because he comes from a theological background.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlaEPERULhc&feature=PlayList&p=489BBB19A923EE70&index=0

  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #1 - August 25, 2009, 09:10 PM
    ....part 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c5-vVwJ2eQ&feature=PlayList&p=489BBB19A923EE70&index=1
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #2 - August 25, 2009, 09:11 PM
    ....part 3

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONAcBRPbPLE&feature=PlayList&p=489BBB19A923EE70&index=2
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #3 - August 25, 2009, 09:31 PM
    The title itself is interesting 'Does god not exist?' bias :p i'm still on the first video.
    Thanks for the link!
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #4 - August 25, 2009, 09:37 PM
    Im watching the first video right now and suddenly my hope in humanity is back again!

    on another note, i wanna marry dan baker... and im a hetero man!
    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #5 - August 25, 2009, 09:42 PM
    Quote
    Im watching the first video right now and suddenly my hope in humanity is back again!

    on another note, i wanna marry dan baker... and im a hetero man!


    He's got a couple of books published as well. Not read them though.
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #6 - August 25, 2009, 09:54 PM
    Okay... second video...

    Dous this guy have ANY good argument for Theism? I dont like people who just repeat half an hour "You cant understand god, because you are to stupid as an atheist!"

    And the argument about atheism only one life. NATURALLY as an Atheist i want to live this life as good and long as possible... wow... stupid guy!
    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #7 - August 25, 2009, 09:59 PM
    Quote
    Dous this guy have ANY good argument for Theism? I dont like people who just repeat half an hour "You cant understand god, because you are to stupid as an atheist!"


    Yeah, I think the guy starts getting slightly emotional in his reply!
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #8 - August 25, 2009, 10:04 PM
    Okay, now he gets annoying.

    Its just gapfilling... he only tells over and over again that, the parts in the universe you dont understand? THATS GOD!!!

    He is a typical Gap filler... sheesh

    edit: Deer god this guy is so stupid... I am here so god exists?! THATS hes argument?
    because he is so complex, god MUST exist?! WTH? Science explains perfectly well how we came to be WITHOUT CREATION!!... man... long time since i got frustrated about a debate.

    and yes... he gets friggin emotianal

    edit2: Dan Barker on the other hand is brilliant...
    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #9 - August 25, 2009, 10:13 PM
    I was quite impressed with the restrained muslim audience -  where was this held?
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #10 - August 25, 2009, 10:17 PM
    He is getting emotional, and preaching :S

    He is babbling 'The relative world cannot exist without an absolute creator' o.o...

    Edit: this reminds me of a book i started reading called 'The thinker's guide to God' I can't remember the details, but it aruged about people's definition of God, I'll try and find that book.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #11 - August 25, 2009, 10:18 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on August 25, 2009, 10:13 PM
    I was quite impressed with the restrained muslim audience -  where was this held?


    I think it was on the west coast somewhere.
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #12 - August 25, 2009, 10:21 PM
    the USA, that explains it.. 
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    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #13 - August 25, 2009, 10:22 PM
    Oh here we go again...

    now he is attacking Dan personalie... Wow, worst debater EVER!

    Still saying that atheists cant see the *bigger picture*

    Oh, and i absolutly hate it when theist take statements out of context.
    Im talking about the angry about nature argument... STUPID!!

    Edit: OMG is this guy serious?! Only God can give us morality?! ONLY GOD?!
    Okay, i have to go beat a nun to death on a pile of dead puppies now! Why?! because i dont believe in God...

    Aaaaaand still. Life is complex so there must be a creator! *puke*

    Edit2: I cant believe there are people out there who are convinced by this absolute nonsense that there is a god. I mean... really?! REALLY?!
    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #14 - August 25, 2009, 10:30 PM
    Dan Barker has done well by keeping composed and articulate.
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #15 - August 25, 2009, 10:33 PM
    hahaha dan - 'pretend to be intellectual'   Cheesy

    Dan Barker is composed because he has nothing to feel threatened by, whereas the theist guy does, his faith is on the line.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #16 - August 25, 2009, 10:59 PM
    Quote from: 20yearstoolong on August 25, 2009, 10:30 PM
    Dan Barker has done well by keeping composed and articulate.

    +1
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #17 - August 25, 2009, 11:03 PM
    halfway through 2nd vid Afro
    ...
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #18 - August 26, 2009, 12:46 AM
    Watched most of it about 2 yrs ago, and couldn't stand the audience...!!!!
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #19 - August 26, 2009, 01:06 AM
    Right, so this guy says that god is outside space and time, this is similar to St. Thomas Aquinas (Christian philosopher and theologian) and his model of god as 'Wholly Simple'

    The points for this model given in 'The Thinker's Guide to God':

    -God is not made up of parts

    (My note - isn't the trinity made of 'parts of god'? Hmm maybe the trinity idea didn't exist then.. i don't know)

    -God does not have a body

    (My note - although im sure i heard that somewhere in the bible, there are indications of god having body parts? yeah apparently in genesis god walked in the garden of eden with adam)

    -God is not in space and time

    -God is not immutable

    -God has no potential

    -God is necessary
    (In the book this means god is not dependant on anything, nothing caused god to come into existence)

    It takes Aristotle's and Plato's view of anything perfect could not exist in space and time. Also if god does not exist in time he doesn't have potential to do anything, (this is another Aristotle's idea) because if yesterday, tomorrow etc doesn't exist, time doesn't exist for god, then he has no potential to change, he is fixed.

    Then god cannot be omnipotent can he? He can't intervene in this universe where time exists, how can he answer our prayers?

    My thought: If god is eternal and infinite, and nothing created god, and only god was at the begining, all there is. Then for god to create us, we must be created from god in the sense we are a part of god. The whole universe is just a part of god. If nothing comes from nothing. If god has no potential, he couldn't even really create us, could he?

    St. Francis took the opposite idea on it, that god is in time (makes sense since jesus as god came to earth...etc)

    Anyway we can still have a look at Aquinas' view for the islamic god...
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #20 - August 26, 2009, 01:19 AM
    Quote from: Emerald on August 26, 2009, 12:46 AM
    Watched most of it about 2 yrs ago, and couldn't stand the audience...!!!!


    That guy seriously annoyed me, i could say some things, but can't be bothered to waste energy lol. The audience were quite annoying too, yeah
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #21 - August 26, 2009, 02:10 AM
    Quote from: 20yearstoolong on August 25, 2009, 09:09 PM
    Guy's have any of you seen this debate. I like Dan Barker and he's probably doing a better job than Dawkins. Harris and Hitchens because he comes from a theological background.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlaEPERULhc&feature=PlayList&p=489BBB19A923EE70&index=0


    You know, the guy who introduces this event seems like a nice enough fellow.  This took place in New York City, not the West Coast.  But he's talking about 'no anger, no animosity' and so on and I'm thinking, you know, would you say the same if the atheist was someone who was raised in a Muslim family?  It's just words.  What do they say when people like Dan Barker and New York Atheists aren't around?  You know what they say - going to hell, immoral, all have gay AIDS butt sex, and so on. 
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #22 - August 26, 2009, 02:17 AM
    Ugh and that annoying thing where, in order to start the program, someone has to recite some 'relevant' verses from the Quran in his nasally, overwrought style while the Muslims in the audience sit there smugly, sure that the kafirs among them will be converted from the sheer beauty of this book that they don't understand and the non-Muslims, and probably some of the Muslims, struggle to stay awake. 

    And the topi with American clothes.  I hate that look.  That is just my personal feeling.  Nothing about Islam per se, hated it when I was Muslim too.

    I wonder if any Muslim there or any Muslim who has seen this since then has been prompted to think deeply about the existence of a deity, and had an introduction to reality. 
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #23 - August 26, 2009, 06:47 AM
    Okay, watched it to the end this morning.

    Man Bakers closing statement was brilliant, the other guys... not so much. He was just saying things that would appeal to the muslim audiance.

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #24 - August 26, 2009, 07:34 AM
    .....and there's more! I've not seen this one. It's the same two guys and two others.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oocFLfoT0Q4&feature=PlayList&p=E5AB5FD77DBAF50A&index=0
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #25 - August 26, 2009, 07:37 AM
    .....part 2 Theist Vs Atheist Debate: "Does God Not Exist? 2" (Part 2/4)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS-CaiQaBAw&feature=PlayList&p=E5AB5FD77DBAF50A&index=1
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #26 - August 26, 2009, 07:38 AM
    .....part 3 Theist Vs Atheist Debate: "Does God Not Exist? 2" (Part 3/4)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwG7CSvBUHI&feature=PlayList&p=E5AB5FD77DBAF50A&index=2
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #27 - August 26, 2009, 07:41 AM
    .....part 4 Theist Vs Atheist Debate: "Does God Not Exist? 2" (Part 4/4)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK1sS1VRb90&feature=PlayList&p=E5AB5FD77DBAF50A&index=3
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #28 - August 26, 2009, 02:08 PM
    Not seen any of these yet, but can't believe they wanna go again with Dan Barker!
  • Re: Dan Barker VS Hassanain Rajabali.
     Reply #29 - August 26, 2009, 03:54 PM
    Both debaters are fairly poor really, they get side tracked easily into other trickier areas. An atheist doesn't have to prove anything, the burden is on the believer. Intelligent design is not proof of a single all knowing, infinite diety.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
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