New York City/FinallyFree's sig

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New York City/FinallyFree's sig
OP - August 26, 2009, 11:21 PM

So, I was looking at FinallyFree's signature line, which reads, in part:"3) New York is the coldest and most inhumane city in the West" IsLame had also expressed his opinion that NYC was rude. This seems to be a common opinion both in the US and globally, and it is certainly often portrayed in film and television that way.

I have to say I disagree. NYC is not as friendly of a city on the East Coast as, say, Philly, it lacks the relatively genuine friendliness of many of the Midwestern cities, or the sickly sweet fake friendliness of the South, and people can be abrupt, loud and rude (especially in traffic-- I consider NYC traffic to be the worst on the East Coast), but I've never found the city to have a generally hostile vibe, nor found its residents, generally speaking, to be rude for the most part (at least when they're not in their cars). It's certainly friendlier than anywhere in New England, aside from Vermont, friendlier than Caracas, a bit friendlier than Montreal, not considerably unfriendlier than anywhere I've been in England, and I'm willing to bet it's friendlier than a lot of cities in Europe.

I lived in NYC for about a year (West Harlem, just South of Washington Heights) and have been visiting friends there since the early 90s, probably been there for work or pleasure 3 or 4 dozen times, and I just don't get where this common perception of of New York as such a horrible, hostile place comes from. Of course, then again, I also lived in Boston for much of my late teens and early adult life, so that may have created extremely low standards for what I consider to be a "friendly city"

Anyhow, I created this thread so that other folks that have either visited or lived in New York could give their input. I'd especially like to hear why FinallyFree thinks that.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #1 - August 26, 2009, 11:59 PM

Never been to New York, but I know it shares a reputation with Paris for being a city full of rude people with a dog eat dog culture. Parisians are quite proud of their snooty reputation, and having been to Paris I would say it is accurate. Parisians tend to be arrogant and rude especially behind the wheel of a car. I've never seen anything like the traffic in Paris outside of a bumper car ride at a funfair.

I always assumed New Yorkers were similarly proud of their reputation for being snotty gits?

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #2 - August 27, 2009, 12:57 AM

I have been to New York 4 times or so and I have ALWAYS experiences a friendly bunch of New Yorkans.

I completely agree with you Q-Man. I thought Los Angeles was more rude than NY.

I think the reason NYC might be seen as a bit rude is because it's so busy all the time, everybody is in a hurry, but even so I've never experienced anyone not stopping to hold the door for me, or hold an elevator. I love New York
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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #3 - August 27, 2009, 01:14 AM

Quote from: Cheetah on August 26, 2009, 11:59 PM
I always assumed New Yorkers were similarly proud of their reputation for being snotty gits?

Well, perhaps a NYC native like fading can answer this better than I can, but, yeah, to an extent that's true. They are somewhat proud of being loud and obnoxious and are very arrogant about their city, especially Yankees and Giants fans, but mostly this applies out of New York more than in New York-- like they have something to prove when they leave the 5 boroughs. I used to make fun of New Yorkers in Boston for starting every other sentence with "Ya know, back in New York..." and then would proceed to explain how this or that thing worked in New York and why it was better than Boston (and to my chagrin, honestly, they were often right).

But in New York City itself it's often a different story. Sure people take the same pride in being loud and obnoxious, but other than drunk Yankees and Giants fans, they're mostly tolerable having nothing to prove in their own city, and are quite happy to interact with people they've never met. You also have to consider that a good portion of New Yorkers are not from New York, and native New Yorkers are accustomed to that-- it's not just one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the US, it's been that way since the mid-18th century and has a culture of immigration (both from inside and outside the country) and tourism like no other city in the country. Chicago, San Fran and LA come close, but they are much newer cities by comparison. It's pretty safe to say that my interactions with New Yorkers both as a frequent visitor and as a resident were overwhelmingly positive. Again, this may be colored by having lived in Boston for so long-- I was definitely treated better by New Yorkers as a visitor than I was by Bostonians back home.

The biggest "New York" dickheads you meet aren't from New York at all, but North Jersey, though until "The Sopranos" gave Jersey a little gangster chic, most of them you'd meet elsewhere in the country would front like they were from New York-- some still do.

Quote from: heartbomb on August 27, 2009, 12:57 AM
I have been to New York 4 times or so and I have ALWAYS experiences a friendly bunch of New Yorkans.

I completely agree with you Q-Man. I thought Los Angeles was more rude than NY.

I think the reason NYC might be seen as a bit rude is because it's so busy all the time, everybody is in a hurry, but even so I've never experienced anyone not stopping to hold the door for me, or hold an elevator. I love New York

Yep, I definitely think that's part of it (the bolded). That and I think the portrayals of New York by the media cause visitors to view it through a certain lens when they go. For example, a lot of people from outside the Northeast think of New York as being more dangerous than Philly, largely due to a media image created in the 1970s and 80s when NYC was actually a very dangerous place to be, but nowadays you're much safer in Harlem than in most parts of Philly, and the infamous "Hell's Kitchen" is now "Clinton", a very high-priced area. One of my favorite bars/restaurants there is no more, replaced by some fuckin yuppie condo. The strip bars, porn shops, and street crime of Hells Kitchen, Times Square, and the Port Authority mostly gone, and G.G. Allin's line "42nd Street's got what I need-- dark alleys and a lot of disease" now an amusing anachronism.

Fact is that any city of that size there's so much going on and people are in such a rush they will seem somewhat hostile or uncaring compared with smaller cities.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #4 - August 27, 2009, 03:21 AM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 26, 2009, 11:21 PM
So, I was looking at FinallyFree's signature line, which reads, in part:"3) New York is the coldest and most inhumane city in the West" IsLame had also expressed his opinion that NYC was rude. This seems to be a common opinion both in the US and globally, and it is certainly often portrayed in film and television that way.

I have to say I disagree.

I had seen that and I was thinking 'No, that is just not true!' but sometimes fighting stereotypes about New York is an uphill battle. People think it's like it is in movies or that it's like it was in the 70s/80s when there was a lot of crime (which was the case in all the major cities when CRACK showed up on the scene), abandoned neighbourhoods, etc. I mean in all the years I wandered around New York, I only once ever saw a guy who looked like the stereotypical Mafioso! And I was never, ever mugged or anything like that myself. Nor have I ever seen drugs on every corner or anything like what you hear.

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(especially in traffic-- I consider NYC traffic to be the worst on the East Coast)

You know, there is a reason they call Boston drivers Massholes. I happen to be an excellent driver, honing my skills on the streets of Brooklyn and the Bronx, but Boston drivers scared the crap out of me.

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I lived in NYC for about a year (West Harlem, just South of Washington Heights) and have been visiting friends there since the early 90s, probably been there for work or pleasure 3 or 4 dozen times, and I just don't get where this common perception of of New York as such a horrible, hostile place comes from. Of course, then again, I also lived in Boston for much of my late teens and early adult life, so that may have created extremely low standards for what I consider to be a "friendly city"

Now you are speaking the gospel truth. I have also spent time in Boston. What a chilly bunch of people they are.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #5 - August 27, 2009, 03:26 AM

Quote from: Cheetah on August 26, 2009, 11:59 PM
I always assumed New Yorkers were similarly proud of their reputation for being snotty gits?

I think the general reputation of New Yorkers is that they are tough as nails, and New Yorkers are proud of this. They showed this true to the world after 9/11. The snotty part is more aimed at the artists, what people like the right wing call the 'liberal elite'. I don't think it has any bearing on reality because if you are talking about the media centers, well, whatever they report on is dictated by corporate interests and corporations don't like radical and liberal ideas. The thing is that in the New York area, a lot of people are liberal, not just the upper class ones.

You know, I think it speaks volumes that those shirts that have a picture of a gun that say 'Welcome to New York. Now go home' are sold in the tourist areas. I never saw a real New Yorker wearing that shirt.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #6 - August 27, 2009, 03:51 AM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 27, 2009, 01:14 AM
Well, perhaps a NYC native like fading can answer this better than I can, but, yeah, to an extent that's true. They are somewhat proud of being loud and obnoxious and are very arrogant about their city, especially Yankees and Giants fans

Ok but is that not 150% true of Red Sox / Patriots fans? Srsly, I have never seen a more sports crazy people than Bostonians. And other places too. I mean, they had live coverage of Brett Favre's car driving from the airport when he was going to sign with the Vikings and people in Wisconsin were going beserk, calling him Benedict Favre. Lakers fans have been known to riot. So I think it's true for all the cities with major teams. And not to say anything, but the Yankees ARE, historically speaking, the best franchise in baseball. And of course, none of our fans in America even stack up to those English football hooligans!

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I used to make fun of New Yorkers in Boston for starting every other sentence with "Ya know, back in New York..." and then would proceed to explain how this or that thing worked in New York and why it was better than Boston (and to my chagrin, honestly, they were often right).

Like for one we do not have those rotaries, which are from the circles of HELL and make no sense at all.

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I was definitely treated better by New Yorkers as a visitor than I was by Bostonians back home.

Bostonians are just rude. Really, some of the rudest people you will ever meet. There are places they will stare daggers at you if you walk through or drive through and you're not from the neighbourhood. Bostonians are rude in the sense that they are cold and will just not talk to you. New Yorkers will tell you exactly the truth about yourself or what needs to be said and that frankness can be jarring to people from parts of the country where people are more tactful or dress up their criticism in softer language.

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The biggest "New York" dickheads you meet aren't from New York at all, but North Jersey, though until "The Sopranos" gave Jersey a little gangster chic, most of them you'd meet elsewhere in the country would front like they were from New York-- some still do.

I did my internship in North Jersey. It's full of ex-New Yorkers. The reason they are such dicks is that they live all crowded like New York City and they pay sky high taxes like New Yorkers, but they don't have the cache of being able to say they are New Yorkers. You say you are from Weehawkin or Leonia and people are like 'What the fuck is that?'

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largely due to a media image created in the 1970s and 80s when NYC was actually a very dangerous place to be,

Exactly. In 1978, Jimmy Carter visited an area of the South Bronx called Charlotte Street and the whole area was leveled homes, abandoned, like an urban prairie. Like what Detroit looks like. This was like the lowest point of New York's modern history. You say 'Bronx' to people and they think it's still like that or that the whole city is like that. They don't know that Charlotte St today has nice split level houses and town homes on it. They think the whole city is like 'Ft. Apache, the Bronx' or whatever. That was 30 years ago.

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but nowadays you're much safer in Harlem than in most parts of Philly

Philly - they do not play down there. It's known as 'Killadelphia.' And the Muslims in Philadelphia have the worst reputation.

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and the infamous "Hell's Kitchen" is now "Clinton", a very high-priced area. One of my favorite bars/restaurants there is no more, replaced by some fuckin yuppie condo. The strip bars, porn shops, and street crime of Hells Kitchen, Times Square, and the Port Authority mostly gone, and G.G. Allin's line "42nd Street's got what I need-- dark alleys and a lot of disease" now an amusing anachronism.

Yeah when they first started calling it 'Clinton' we were like 'What the fuck?' and now you can't even tell that it used to be what it was. You can't even imagine that working class and lower class people lived there. (See 'State of Grace' with Sean Penn and Gary Oldman to get a taste). Times Square - don't even talk to me about that. We would go there when we were teenagers to 'see what was going on' and there would be prossies, pimps, runaways, kids from all over the city, there was video games, the martial arts guy, middle class guys looking for a good time, even artists. It's Disney now. Do you ever see a real New Yorker there who isn't behind the counter of Disney store? I know the crime going away is a good thing, but now it's like a plastic New York and tourists go there to eat at the fucking Olive Garden when they are only 40 blocks away from some of the best Italian food in the country! Even the East Village now it's like...

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Fact is that any city of that size there's so much going on and people are in such a rush they will seem somewhat hostile or uncaring compared with smaller cities.

Personally I think there is more respect for people in the sense that they leave you alone, people don't get up in other people's business, they let you do your thing. If you go other places in America, strangers will be all talking to you, preaching to you, asking you about the weather and you're just trying to do your thing like going to work or reading for school or whatever. I don't want to hear about Jesus or your grandmother's gall bladder when we're on line together at the supermarket. In New York, people leave you alone because they want to be left alone. But yet, we have seen that New Yorkers came together when it matters the most.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #7 - August 27, 2009, 04:02 AM

I like to brag to New Yorkers about how cool New Jersey is..... It confuses them

(I grew up in Jersey, and it does in fact rock)
I was also born in Philly, and do have to admit, it is truely the city of Brotherly love

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #8 - August 27, 2009, 04:49 AM

New Jersey apart from Bergen, Passaic, Essex, and Hudson counties is cool. Oh and also except for Camden.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #9 - August 27, 2009, 05:38 AM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 27, 2009, 01:14 AM
Fact is that any city of that size there's so much going on and people are in such a rush they will seem somewhat hostile or uncaring compared with smaller cities.

That is very true.
London is very similar in that respects. Especially the centre

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #10 - August 27, 2009, 10:40 AM

Oh God.

First it was the Geert Wilders signature, which I could understand at the time but now this??

Come on Qman, admit it, you just plain don't like me. Which I can understand,I don't like myself either and I'm not a popular person either on this internet realm or in real life, and it is the internet so you can say and do as you please. But I'll save you the hassle. Next time you don't like my signature, just send me a personal message, I am that easy to bully. I had a Bill Maher avatar on FFI and Planck told me that he would ignore me if I didn't get rid of it, presumably because Bill Maher is a festidious liberal. I got rid of it quickly. Similarly I had a signature that pointed out a mathematical error in the Quran but Baal explained that with Islamologic and Islamoreasoning it could be easily ignored, so I got rid of that too. Now I'm going to get rid of this one, but next time just PM me to save us both the hassle.

Right, I've been to New York on a fair few occassions, I liked it personally from the way I was treated, I was treated as a British tourist and thus I have no complaints, the prices were good and the people were pleasant. I was inspired to put that from the experiences of a Mr Jacob Holdt. Mr Holdt is a Dane who lived in America and travelled across it for years as a vagabond. He chronichled his experiences and stories as a large picture book called: "American pictures" he also gives lectures about American society at a number of universities worldwide. He mainly focused on racism and social discordance. His ideas are brilliant, and the way he explains racism and tension in America is so refreshing and exceptional. In one part of the book (which can be read online) he explains his complete disgust with the city of New York and the way poor people are treated, poor and minority people that is. He isn't trying to cause problems, he is simply chronicalling the lives of the miserable that are glossed over when it comes to movies and pictures and songs. He tells so many brilliant stories and shows the pitiless lives of these lost souls.

Now, the time I went to New York after that, I realised what was going on. I did see the way that these poor and homeless people are shunned and ignored in comparison to the sky scrapers, the glitz and the touristy places. I also diversified my travel to places outside manhatten and I could see serious poverty. It was like the book was coming alive.

Now, of course, London and just about every other Western city has it's own share of problems, and I hate London, living there was one of the most depressing expriences of my short life. But, the attitude towards poverty both by the locals and the government seems very different in London and New York, the way the cities themselves treat people appears different to me.

All in all though, this is based on a personal opinion and a perspective, mine and what I read in that book. I didn't mean to offend, upset, hurt or do any other damage to anyone.

I'm not going to argue about anything I said here because that would be akin to pissing in the wind, and I have more pleasurable ways of wasting my time.

I should really have been wiser about what I put, now, two things. Next time just pm me straight away if you have any issue with it and I will take it off, rather waste your own time, which I am sure is valuable.

My next signature will be blank, so as to not hurt anyone's feelings.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #11 - August 27, 2009, 01:21 PM

Quote from: fading on August 27, 2009, 04:49 AM
New Jersey apart from Bergen, Passaic, Essex, and Hudson counties is cool. Oh and also except for Camden.

Hay, Those are the best ones

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #12 - August 27, 2009, 03:07 PM

Quote from: FinallyFree on August 27, 2009, 10:40 AM
Oh God.

First it was the Geert Wilders signature, which I could understand at the time but now this??

Come on Qman, admit it, you just plain don't like me. Which I can understand,I don't like myself either and I'm not a popular person either on this internet realm or in real life, and it is the internet so you can say and do as you please. But I'll save you the hassle. Next time you don't like my signature, just send me a personal message, I am that easy to bully. I had a Bill Maher avatar on FFI and Planck told me that he would ignore me if I didn't get rid of it, presumably because Bill Maher is a festidious liberal. I got rid of it quickly. Similarly I had a signature that pointed out a mathematical error in the Quran but Baal explained that with Islamologic and Islamoreasoning it could be easily ignored, so I got rid of that too. Now I'm going to get rid of this one, but next time just PM me to save us both the hassle.

Right, I've been to New York on a fair few occassions, I liked it personally from the way I was treated, I was treated as a British tourist and thus I have no complaints, the prices were good and the people were pleasant. I was inspired to put that from the experiences of a Mr Jacob Holdt. Mr Holdt is a Dane who lived in America and travelled across it for years as a vagabond. He chronichled his experiences and stories as a large picture book called: "American pictures" he also gives lectures about American society at a number of universities worldwide. He mainly focused on racism and social discordance. His ideas are brilliant, and the way he explains racism and tension in America is so refreshing and exceptional. In one part of the book (which can be read online) he explains his complete disgust with the city of New York and the way poor people are treated, poor and minority people that is. He isn't trying to cause problems, he is simply chronicalling the lives of the miserable that are glossed over when it comes to movies and pictures and songs. He tells so many brilliant stories and shows the pitiless lives of these lost souls.

Now, the time I went to New York after that, I realised what was going on. I did see the way that these poor and homeless people are shunned and ignored in comparison to the sky scrapers, the glitz and the touristy places. I also diversified my travel to places outside manhatten and I could see serious poverty. It was like the book was coming alive.

Now, of course, London and just about every other Western city has it's own share of problems, and I hate London, living there was one of the most depressing expriences of my short life. But, the attitude towards poverty both by the locals and the government seems very different in London and New York, the way the cities themselves treat people appears different to me.

All in all though, this is based on a personal opinion and a perspective, mine and what I read in that book. I didn't mean to offend, upset, hurt or do any other damage to anyone.

I'm not going to argue about anything I said here because that would be akin to pissing in the wind, and I have more pleasurable ways of wasting my time.

I should really have been wiser about what I put, now, two things. Next time just pm me straight away if you have any issue with it and I will take it off, rather waste your own time, which I am sure is valuable.

My next signature will be blank, so as to not hurt anyone's feelings.

FF, I got nothing against ya. You're taking this the wrong way. Your sig just expressed a common sentiment I happen to disagree with, which inspired me to create this thread, and it's not like I think poorly of people who think poorly of NYC, I just disagree with them is all.

And thanks for your explanation.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #13 - August 27, 2009, 03:47 PM

Quote from: fading on August 27, 2009, 03:21 AM
I had seen that and I was thinking 'No, that is just not true!' but sometimes fighting stereotypes about New York is an uphill battle. People think it's like it is in movies or that it's like it was in the 70s/80s when there was a lot of crime (which was the case in all the major cities when CRACK showed up on the scene), abandoned neighbourhoods, etc. I mean in all the years I wandered around New York, I only once ever saw a guy who looked like the stereotypical Mafioso! And I was never, ever mugged or anything like that myself. Nor have I ever seen drugs on every corner or anything like what you hear.

Where did you live?

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You know, there is a reason they call Boston drivers Massholes. I happen to be an excellent driver, honing my skills on the streets of Brooklyn and the Bronx, but Boston drivers scared the crap out of me.

Yeah, I keep hearing that from New Yorkers. It's bullshit. New Yorkers just get confused by the streets in Boston since most of it's not on a grid. At least "Massholes" don't lean on their fuckin horns a split second after the light turns green. I've driven quite a bit in both cities, and they're both bad, but NY is worse-- of course Mexico City and Caracas make traffic in both Boston and NY look downright pleasant by comparison.

Quote from: fading on August 27, 2009, 03:51 AM
Ok but is that not 150% true of Red Sox / Patriots fans?

Pats fans aren't as bad as Giants fans, and Sox fans, well...ummm....GO SOX!!!! YANKEES SUCK!!!

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And not to say anything, but the Yankees ARE, historically speaking, the most evil franchise in baseball.

Fixed it for ya.

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And of course, none of our fans in America even stack up to those English football hooligans!

Guess you've never been to a Philadelphia Eagles game then. In the old stadium they just tore down, there were so many incidents of violence that they built a courthouse and jail underneath the stadium known as "Eagles Court". One time around the holidays, when the Eagles were losing badly, Santa came out during halftime-- he was booed and pelted with snowballs. Santa! Another time people started packing D-cell batteries and other debris into snowballs and pelting players for the hated Cowboys-- even the current governor of the state admits he was one of those throwing shit onto the field. There are tons more stories like that in Eagles lore. I saw a guy nearly get assaulted for wearing an opposing team's hat on the subway (AFTER that team LOST to the Eagles), and the guy threatening to kick his ass was a calm, well-dressed, stone-cold sober office worker on his way back from work.

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Like for one we do not have those rotaries, which are from the circles of HELL and make no sense at all.

I don't know why people complain about those-- they're easy. And I can't think of any that are in Boston proper, they're all on the outskirts.

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Bostonians are just rude. Really, some of the rudest people you will ever meet.

Yep, though it's a bit better nowadays than it used to be.

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There are places they will stare daggers at you if you walk through or drive through and you're not from the neighbourhood.

Hell, they do worse than that. When I first moved to Boston when I was in my late teens (lived in East Boston "Eastie" for the majority of the time), and I would go down to South Boston "Southie" I had drunk motherfuckers in the middle of the day trying to pick a fight with me because they didn't recognize me from the neighborhood. It's not as bad now that I'm friends with some Southie natives down there who are well-known and respected in the neighborhood, that and a lot of Southie has become completely gentrified, not the White Irish ghetto it used to be.

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Bostonians are rude in the sense that they are cold and will just not talk to you. New Yorkers will tell you exactly the truth about yourself or what needs to be said and that frankness can be jarring to people from parts of the country where people are more tactful or dress up their criticism in softer language.

I agree.

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Philly - they do not play down there. It's known as 'Killadelphia.'

I know, I've been living here for several years now. The crime rate's out of fucking control. There are good things about the city, though-- people are friendly, rent is cheap, bars are cheap and plentiful, and many ignore the smoking ban, and we don't have the stupid gun control laws here like in Boston, NYC, Baltimore or DC. And unlike Boston and NYC, the yuppies haven't taken over-- the working-class, for better or worse, still controls this city, and I do have some loyalty to my own class.

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Yeah when they first started calling it 'Clinton' we were like 'What the fuck?' and now you can't even tell that it used to be what it was. You can't even imagine that working class and lower class people lived there. (See 'State of Grace' with Sean Penn and Gary Oldman to get a taste). Times Square - don't even talk to me about that. We would go there when we were teenagers to 'see what was going on' and there would be prossies, pimps, runaways, kids from all over the city, there was video games, the martial arts guy, middle class guys looking for a good time, even artists. It's Disney now. Do you ever see a real New Yorker there who isn't behind the counter of Disney store? I know the crime going away is a good thing, but now it's like a plastic New York and tourists go there to eat at the fucking Olive Garden when they are only 40 blocks away from some of the best Italian food in the country! Even the East Village now it's like...

I know, I know, I know. I only went to Times Square once in the 80s, when I was a little kid with my ma, and it was a scary place as I recall. Even when I started visiting NYC again in the early 90s, Times Square and the East Village were still fairly rough places to be, and going to visit was a thrill. Now it's kinda boring. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly complaining that they cleaned up the crime, and I still think NYC's a great fuckin town, but I do miss the rough edge that gave the city a bit of dark excitement.

Quote from: Homer on August 27, 2009, 01:21 PM
Hay, Those are the best ones

IronBound in the house

Yeah, the Ironbound is pretty fuckin awesome, and parts of Jersey City aren't bad either. Fading might as well have said "Jersey's great except all the urban areas", although she strangely left out Trenton, which, besides the pizza, does, in fact, suck.

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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #14 - August 27, 2009, 08:19 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on August 27, 2009, 03:47 PM
Where did you live?

Bx baby.

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Yeah, I keep hearing that from New Yorkers. It's bullshit.

No. It is true. The title of this blog sums it up: http://www.masscrazydriving.blogspot.com/

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New Yorkers just get confused by the streets in Boston since most of it's not on a grid.

Now, now it is TRUE that the streets of the Hub make no sense to anyone who possesses any. The streets in the heart of the city proper are based on the old cow paths that were used by farmers and shepherds in the 1700s. New York has streets like this in Lower Manhattan - Water, Gouverneur, Wall, etc that were all the original pathways when New York was an agricultural place. The difference is that the rest of New York has normal streets like most everywhere else in the country - east, west, clearly one way, clearly two way. Boston - the street map looks like a giant bowl of spaghetti.

Here is a cool page on old, odd, little known (and sometimes disappeared) streets of Lower Manhattan: http://www.forgotten-ny.com/streetnecrology/lowermanhattannecrology/necro1.html

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At least "Massholes" don't lean on their fuckin horns a split second after the light turns green.

How would they have time to? They are too busy trying to KILL everyone else on the road!

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Pats fans aren't as bad as Giants fans, and Sox fans, well...ummm....GO SOX!!!! YANKEES SUCK!!!

BOO HISS RED SUX SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA97x7fLGYA

http://www.cafepress.com/redsuxnation

You know, all animosity aside, I hope we can all agree that the Mets suck.

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Fixed it for ya.

Red Sux Nation members, and many other haters, like to say that the Yankees are evil, and yet they hold 26 World Series titles compared to... 7 for Bawstin. The numbers don't lie. Yankees are the best. Yankees are WICKED.

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Guess you've never been to a Philadelphia Eagles game then.

No actually I don't like football and I don't care about any of the teams other than hating the Pats.

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I don't know why people complain about those-- they're easy. And I can't think of any that are in Boston proper, they're all on the outskirts.

Yeah I don't know about Boston proper, but there are some in Dot and JP. Definitely in the inner ring though - Watertown, Slummaville, Quinzzzeeee. I always felt like I was putting my life in the hands of the other drivers. I would go out of my way to avoid them.

http://www.mit.edu/~ocschwar/rotaries.html:

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Nowadays we use horseless carriages, and we alone decide whether to be polite or to be Boston Drivers. And so, the rotary has come to have a distilled concentration of everything that makes driving in Boston such a contest for survival. People drive so fast in the rotaries that their cars list visibly. Normal levels of Boston Driving are amplified considerably, because we all know that those who enter must yield, but nobody really obeys that. The truly unnerving part is that as you line up to enter, each driver coming by may still be in the rotary or may be planning to exit in the street right after yours. He won't signal. Turn signals are for the weak.

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a lot of Southie has become completely gentrified, not the White Irish ghetto it used to be.

Yeah I did see that. Did you see 'Gone Baby Gone?'

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I know, I've been living here for several years now. The crime rate's out of fucking control. There are good things about the city, though-- people are friendly, rent is cheap, bars are cheap and plentiful, and many ignore the smoking ban, and we don't have the stupid gun control laws here like in Boston, NYC, Baltimore or DC. And unlike Boston and NYC, the yuppies haven't taken over-- the working-class, for better or worse, still controls this city, and I do have some loyalty to my own class.

I actually pondered moving to the greater area, even though I have this legendary dislike of Philadelphia. The city always seemed like a grey colored and depressing place to me, but I do like that you would still be in the North East but have slightly better weather than other cities like NY or Boston. I'm not sure if I would now though. I'm kind of off city living now. After all these years, I want a quieter and slower pace, even though I still like the convenience and opportunities of the cities. The problem is that the areas around Philly (other than Camden) are pretty expensive, at least they are to me (Montco, Chester, Bucks).

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I do miss the rough edge that gave the city a bit of dark excitement.

It is a different place. And so expensive too. I was looking for a co-op there earlier this year and I couldn't find anything in my price range, not even a 1 BR, and not even in the Bronx, which would have been too small anyway.

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Yeah, the Ironbound is pretty fuckin awesome, and parts of Jersey City aren't bad either. Fading might as well have said "Jersey's great except all the urban areas", although she strangely left out Trenton, which, besides the pizza, does, in fact, suck.

I have made it a life goal of mine to avoid Trenton and in all my years, I have been able to do this. I've been to Camden, but never, ever to Trenton. Jersey City is alright, I used to go there back in the day with friends who lived over there, and hang on the waterfront at Exchange Place, smoking weed and looking at the Towers. I actually used to really like Newark. And Paterson, we used to go there a lot to explore, eat Arabic food, and we'd hang out at the falls. Just again, I'm kind of worn out from city living. I like the Jersey shore - nothing beats playing skee ball at the shore, but now it is so overdone. You can't even get a place down there for all the million dollar bungalows that line the streets. I remember when they used to be like little fisherman's shacks, or places where a working family had their little summer cottage, cheap motels, etc. Now it's all for rich people, I guess. And the western part of NJ is quiet, peaceful. You couldn't pay me to live in New Jersey though. I was just talking to a real estate agent who's selling a house for this woman that my friend knows and the seller, whose house is in Central or North Jersey, I can't remember, pays $23 K in taxes every year. That's fucking insane.

[this space for rent]
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Re: New York City/FinallyFree's sig
Reply #15 - August 28, 2009, 02:39 PM

Quote from: fading on August 27, 2009, 08:19 PM
Bx baby.

Cool, what part?

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No. It is true.

No it's not.

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New York has streets like this in Lower Manhattan - Water, Gouverneur, Wall, etc that were all the original pathways when New York was an agricultural place.

Yeah, I know. I found it frustrating when I went down there, moving from a nice, easy-to-navigate grid to, well, basically the Financial District/Chinatown of Boston.

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The difference is that the rest of New York has normal streets like most everywhere else in the country - east, west, clearly one way, clearly two way. Boston - the street map looks like a giant bowl of spaghetti.

Yeah, I used to drive a cab in Boston. What a pain in the ass. My career was brief.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA97x7fLGYA

Figures a Yankees fan would use such a totally wussy song in that video.

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You know, all animosity aside, I hope we can all agree that the Mets suck.

Considering the fact that since moving here, I've "adopted" the Phillies as my NL team, yeah, we can.

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Yankees are WICKED.

Yeah, wicked retahdid

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No actually I don't like football and I don't care about any of the teams other than hating the Pats.

I can understand hating the Sox, but what you got against the Pats?

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Yeah I don't know about Boston proper, but there are some in Dot and JP.

Come to think of it, you're right. How long did you live in Boston? Not many outside of Boston call Dorchester "Dot". And where did you live?

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Definitely in the inner ring though - Watertown, Slummaville, Quinzzzeeee.

Get with the times-- it hasn't been "Slummaville" for a while.

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I always felt like I was putting my life in the hands of the other drivers. I would go out of my way to avoid them.

I don't get what the big deal is and why so many people complain about them.

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Did you see 'Gone Baby Gone?'

Yeah, and I wasn't expecting much, but I actually thought it was quite good.

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I actually pondered moving to the greater area, even though I have this legendary dislike of Philadelphia. The city always seemed like a grey colored and depressing place to me, but I do like that you would still be in the North East but have slightly better weather than other cities like NY or Boston. I'm not sure if I would now though. I'm kind of off city living now. After all these years, I want a quieter and slower pace, even though I still like the convenience and opportunities of the cities. The problem is that the areas around Philly (other than Camden) are pretty expensive, at least they are to me (Montco, Chester, Bucks).

Well, Philly itself is pretty cheap, and there are many parts of the city where it's quiet and the pace is slower. There are a few areas in the suburbs that aren't too damn pricey-- on the PA side Conshohocken and Norristown aren't too bad, and on the Jersey side, Palmyra, Pennsauken, and Burlington aren't too bad either.

Where you livin now?

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I have made it a life goal of mine to avoid Trenton and in all my years, I have been able to do this.

A union brother from Trenton has a joke-- there's this bridge in Trenton with big neon letters on it that says "Trenton Makes, The World Takes" (back from when Trenton was a major industrial city) and he says it should now read "Trenton Uses What The World Refuses"

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I've been to Camden, but never, ever to Trenton.

Camden. You know you're in the Puerto Rican hood when you see roosters running around on city streets. There's actually a very nice bar by the shipping container terminals called the "20 Horse Tavern". It's weird, it's in the middle of dumpy area, with nothing but docks and run-down residential houses nearby, but the bar/restaurant itself is actually very nice, as nice as any yuppie bar you'd find across the river.

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Jersey City is alright, I used to go there back in the day with friends who lived over there, and hang on the waterfront at Exchange Place, smoking weed and looking at the Towers.

It's my understanding that JC is the new Village, now that NYC's become too pricey for the starving artist set.

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I actually used to really like Newark.

Have you ever seen so many restaurants in your life? And I'm not just talking about the Ironbound (but especially the Ironbound). How the fuck they can pack (and sustain) so many restaurants in a run-down deindustrialized city is fuckin beyond me.

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And Paterson, we used to go there a lot to explore, eat Arabic food, and we'd hang out at the falls.

It's crazy how many Turkish restaurants they got there, too. Yeah, Paterson's kinda cool. Never went to the falls, though-- you talkin about Little Falls?

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I like the Jersey shore - nothing beats playing skee ball at the shore, but now it is so overdone. You can't even get a place down there for all the million dollar bungalows that line the streets. I remember when they used to be like little fisherman's shacks, or places where a working family had their little summer cottage, cheap motels, etc. Now it's all for rich people, I guess.

Well, I dunno about housing but you can still find cheap motels, especially off-season.

fuck you
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