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 Topic: Hypocrites and Apostates

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hypocrites and Apostates
     OP - August 27, 2009, 10:44 AM
    There is something about Islam and Muslims that is really winding me up at the moment. Actually there are many things, but this one is really annoying so I will share it with you all.

    Islam has reserved a special place for the hypocrites (munafiqueen), there are many verses talking about how evil they are and ahadith discussing how they should be treated. For Muslims a Munafiq is one who claims to be Muslim yet secretly does not believe.

    Yet on the other hand Muslims almost force people to become munafiqs by encouraging death sentances for apostates, saying women should leave their husbands if they abandon Islam, ruining whole families just because they rejects Islam.

    So if Muslims are not prepared to tolerate apostacy why the fuck do they moan about those that conceal it, what bloody choice have they given them.

    Now that is true hypocrisy.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #1 - August 27, 2009, 10:45 AM
    Well it's difficult to make a consistent and fair religion if:

    A) You are illiterate and can't write it down for yourself
    B) You aren't too intelligent
    C) You make it all up as you go along.

    I agree with you though, but this isn't the only vicious cycle in Islam. Far from it.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #2 - August 27, 2009, 12:50 PM
    I love how my family would rather me be a hypocrite then be honest.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #3 - August 27, 2009, 02:46 PM
    It's kinda funny that muhammed was an illterate why didn't allah just give him the gift of reading and writing, now that wouldve been a miracle  Roll Eyes
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #4 - August 27, 2009, 02:52 PM
    I doubt very much that Muhammad was illiterate. Him being illiterate just adds to the legend.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #5 - August 27, 2009, 03:05 PM
    Quote
    I doubt very much that Muhammad was illiterate. Him being illiterate just adds to the legend.


    Exactly, that is what I think. He had for a teacher, the cousin of Khadija "Waraka Ibn Nofel", the most knowledgeable, intelligent, knows-all and expert in previous Abrahamic religions. Not being able to read and Write not necessarily means illiterate. He could have just listened to zillions of lectures from the age of 15 till he was 40! You can have a PhD by 40!

    Edit:     Having said that, Waraka was known to promote the old Abrahamic religion and was not happy with the Jewish and Christian deviations. I think Waraka and Khadija had a very good interest in starting up Islam.

    Remember that Waraka who told Khadija to go and tell Muhamed that he was the long awaited prophet Ahmed. Except he was called Muhamed.
    ...
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #6 - August 27, 2009, 03:19 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on August 27, 2009, 12:50 PM
    I love how my family would rather me be a hypocrite then be honest.


    That's the unfortunate thing about Indo/Pak culture. It's nearly always about what others will think and very rarely considers the inviduals feelings.
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #7 - August 27, 2009, 08:24 PM
    I don't think it would have been unusual for Mo to be illiterate.   Literacy wasn't widespread in many places in the world until fairly recently.

    But they use it as a sign that he is the 'true prophet' while at the same time saying that Arabic is the extolled language and knocked the sox (not red sox) off all the people because it was the 'highest most eloquent form of poetry.'  It was an oral culture; chances are the poets themselves weren't necessarily reading and writing, but composing in their head and memorising like other people in that culture did.  And there is no proof that the poets or most other people in their culture could write. In fact, there's even evidence in the hadith that literacy was not that widespread among the Quraish. 
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #8 - August 27, 2009, 08:30 PM
    Mohammed belonged to the clan Banu Hashim,that was litterate.I think he could read and write.
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #9 - August 27, 2009, 08:43 PM
    Quote from: fading on August 27, 2009, 08:24 PM
    I don't think it would have been unusual for Mo to be illiterate.   Literacy wasn't widespread in many places in the world until fairly recently.

    But they use it as a sign that he is the 'true prophet' while at the same time saying that Arabic is the extolled language and knocked the sox (not red sox) off all the people because it was the 'highest most eloquent form of poetry.'  It was an oral culture; chances are the poets themselves weren't necessarily reading and writing, but composing in their head and memorising like other people in that culture did.  And there is no proof that the poets or most other people in their culture could write. In fact, there's even evidence in the hadith that literacy was not that widespread among the Quraish. 


    That is all true, but there is evidence to suggest that he was not illiterate. His job before he was a prophet was as a merchant. As a merchant, he would have had to know how to count. Hindu numerals were only invented in the 9th century and at this time, letters were used to represent numbers. So if he was able to count, it would be expected that he would know how to read and write a transaction.

    Also, the Qur'an stresses the importance of literacy, so it is highly unlikely that he would have been illiterate for the whole 23 years of his prophethood when he was telling people how important it is to read and write.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #10 - August 27, 2009, 09:13 PM
    Quote from: pakman on August 27, 2009, 10:44 AM
    There is something about Islam and Muslims that is really winding me up at the moment. Actually there are many things, but this one is really annoying so I will share it with you all.

    Islam has reserved a special place for the hypocrites (munafiqueen), there are many verses talking about how evil they are and ahadith discussing how they should be treated. For Muslims a Munafiq is one who claims to be Muslim yet secretly does not believe.

    Yet on the other hand Muslims almost force people to become munafiqs by encouraging death sentances for apostates, saying women should leave their husbands if they abandon Islam, ruining whole families just because they rejects Islam.

    So if Muslims are not prepared to tolerate apostacy why the fuck do they moan about those that conceal it, what bloody choice have they given them.

    Now that is true hypocrisy.


    Amen brother!
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #11 - August 27, 2009, 10:11 PM
    That's something I've been saying for a long time. I even went as far as to say that killing apostates was like sacrificing victims to this false idol of fundamental hypocrisy, which is pure shirk!
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #12 - August 27, 2009, 11:13 PM
    Mohammed could definitely write near his death, there is a hadith written near his time of death where he asks for paper to write on. I'll try to find it.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #13 - August 28, 2009, 06:04 AM
    Quote from: Quote from: Sahih al Bukhari Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573
    When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.

    Often called the hadith of pen and paper (or summat), in another version Mo asks for ink and quill.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #14 - August 28, 2009, 07:38 AM
    Quote from: RIBS on August 27, 2009, 03:05 PM
    Remember that Waraka who told Khadija to go and tell Muhamed that he was the long awaited prophet Ahmed. Except he was called Muhamed.

    I heard Muhammad's mother wanted to name her yet to be born son Ahmed, but after she died soon after giving birth, Muhammad was named such by his influential and powerful grandfather Abdul Muttalib.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #15 - August 28, 2009, 09:36 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on August 27, 2009, 11:13 PM
    Mohammed could definitely write near his death, there is a hadith written near his time of death where he asks for paper to write on. I'll try to find it.

    Lol. That Shia-favoured Hadith I fondly remember hearing about. Muhammad was near approaching death and he wanted to write something very important for all the Sahaba to use as a written decree over something/someone special.  far away hug

    Umar ibn Khattab (the original Shariah enforcer) detested this, probably worried that what Muhammad would write would change the course of Islam's political history, and said something like the Prophet is talking jibberish (He used the term Hazyan/Hadhyan in Arabic) and said the Quran is enough for us.  finmad

    Poor Muhammad didnt get the chance to write what he wanted to write.  Cry

    I wonder if it was to really signify that Ali ibn Abi Talib would be the successor, (if the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm was not already enough.) Mann kuntu mawla fa'haza Ali'yun mawla.  bunny
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #16 - August 28, 2009, 10:24 AM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on August 28, 2009, 09:36 AM
    Poor Muhammad didnt get the chance to write what he wanted to write.  Cry

    He didnt have much of a repertoire, so let me guess "Allah is the greatest and I am the last prophet "
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hypocrites and Apostates
     Reply #17 - August 29, 2009, 07:50 AM
    Quote from: awais on August 28, 2009, 06:04 AM
    Often called the hadith of pen and paper (or summat), in another version Mo asks for ink and quill.


    B'nollahi, I never ever heard this hadith until today!  Subhanollah, the many hadiths that really contradict the official story of Islam that I either didn't hear or didn't really 'get' until I left Islam (like the one about him punching Aishah). 
    [this space for rent]
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