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Theme Changer

 Topic: I like this woman!

 (Read 7975 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • I like this woman!
     OP - August 31, 2009, 11:40 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir_JNPn_GNM&feature=channel

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #1 - August 31, 2009, 12:43 PM

    Great find!

    I found the transcript and have reposted the best bits..



    Wafa Sultan: When I examined the Koran, the hadith, and the Islamic books under a microscope, I came to the absolute conviction that it is impossible ? impossible! ? for any human being to read the biography of Muhammad and believe in it, and yet emerge a psychologically and mentally healthy person.

    Do you remember the way that [the Prophet Muhammad] killed ?Asmaa bint Marwan? His followers tore her body apart limb from limb, while she was breastfeeding her child. When they returned to him shouting ?Allah Akbar,? he said: ?No two goats will lock horns over her.? As you know, goals lock horns over the most inconsequential thing. For Muhammad, however, the killing of a woman while breastfeeding was too trivial a reason for goats ?to lock horns over.? Is this a prophet of God?

    When Islam considers women to be deficient in reason, and I refute this assertion ? in that case Islam attacks me, and I am merely attacking back. When Islam calls to kill whoever does not believe in it, and I refute this, in that case Islam attacks me, and I am merely attacking back. I do not attack Islam. I criticize it, but unfortunately, we, the victims of Islamic upbringing, view any criticism as an attack.

    I always focus on the language ? the language of Islam. The language of Islam is a negative, dead language, replete with violence, anger, hatred, and racism. Man is the product of language, the outcome of the negative and positive language to which he is exposed in this lifetime. If his life is dominated by negative language, he will emerge as a negative, reckless, and non-productive person, who rejects everything. On the other hand, if positive language dominates his life, he will emerge as a positive, happy, and productive person. This is why the negative language of Islam has failed. It has failed to produce people with a spontaneous and positive outlook. It has produced negative people. If we take a look at Islamic societies, we see what that negative man did.

    I do not view Islam as a religion ? according to my notion of religion. Islam is a political doctrine, which imposes itself by force. Any doctrine whatsoever that calls to kill those who do not believe in it is not a religion. It is a totalitarian doctrine that imposes itself by force. When I read, for example, the verse: ?The adulterer and the adulteress ? flog each of them with a hundred stripes, and do not let compassion for them move you? - I do not discern any spirituality in this verse. Whena certain faith manages to can strip its believers of their last grain of compassion, it strips them of their spirituality as well.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021267.php


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #2 - August 31, 2009, 01:05 PM

    When Islam considers women to be deficient in reason, and I refute this assertion ? in that case Islam attacks me, and I am merely attacking back

    That`s my best part , cause that`s how i felt when i read some tafseer of verses about women..

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #3 - August 31, 2009, 01:37 PM


    Do you remember the way that [the Prophet Muhammad] killed ?Asmaa bint Marwan? His followers tore her body apart limb from limb, while she was breastfeeding her child. When they returned to him shouting ?Allah Akbar,? he said: ?No two goats will lock horns over her.? As you know, goals lock horns over the most inconsequential thing. For Muhammad, however, the killing of a woman while breastfeeding was too trivial a reason for goats ?to lock horns over.? Is this a prophet of God?
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021267.php



    Must admit though, I am unsure of the legitamacy of this story - I am unable to find a source that shows her body was reputedly torn from limb to limb?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #4 - August 31, 2009, 01:42 PM

    The story is mentioned in Sera books ,she wasnot tortured.. But she was among her babies when the man who stabbed her , had to lift her baby , stab her to death and put him back :S
    here is the arabic link am sorry i dont have an english one..

    http://sirah.al-islam.com/display.asp?f=mga1182.htm


    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #5 - August 31, 2009, 01:49 PM

    I cant read arablic - what is the source of the hadith so I can read it in english?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #6 - August 31, 2009, 01:55 PM

    woman called Asma? Bint Marwan (Asma? the daughter of Marwan) wrote a few verses criticizing Muhammad for the killing of Abu Afak. When Muhammad heard what she had called his gang members and said to them: "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?"

    One of his clans ?Umayr Ibn Adi? volunteered.  He went to her in the night and entered her house.  Her children were sleeping around her, and there was one whom she was suckling.  He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her.  He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back.  Then he offered the morning prayers with Muhammad.  After the prayer Muhammad said to him:  "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?"  He [Muhammad] said:  "No two goats will butt together about her.?

    (Assira Annabawiyah, Ibn Hisham: The life of the Prophet by Ibn Hisham) 

     I hope this can help u ..

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #7 - August 31, 2009, 02:01 PM

    Thanks  Afro Disappointed by Asma though, looks like she is exaggerating stories for effect..

    Good example of how Islam really grew, and how it tackled dissent and how vocal women used to be before Muhammed controlled them with his male supremacist vision

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #8 - August 31, 2009, 02:07 PM

    Thanks  Afro Disappointed by Asma though, looks like she is exaggerating stories for effect..


    Yes :( Sadly this happens from both sides ,, like for so long i thought the hadeeth saying "take half ur deen from aysha" was true
    Or the story of the jew who used to harm muhammed and he was good to him..
    we must search for evidence of what others say , but the story of torture was said to be for another woman named Umm qerfa , but also is not authentic..

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #9 - August 31, 2009, 02:13 PM

    you mean this:

    In early AD 628, during a raid, Zayd, Muhammad?s freedman and adopted son, was wounded and some of his men were killed by a tribe. Zayd vowed to abstain from sex until he took revenge. After Zayd recovered from his wounds, Muhammad sent him and a raiding band back to the tribe. An old woman named Umm Qirfa was taken prisoner. Would a Muslim leader spare her from death, not to mention from torturing her? No. Her death was cruel, says an Islamic source, matter-of-factly.

    The executioner appointed by Zayd "tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to camels, and they split her in two." (Tabari)

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #10 - August 31, 2009, 03:59 PM

    also this one is a good hadith she found:

    Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) went out after the sun had set and he heard some sound and said: It is the Jews who are being tormented in their graves (Book 40, Number 6861)

    Along with one that I use:

    "As you can clearly see the Jews are cursed, till the end of time, Allah tried to help them":Surah V Ayat 70

    Are both good arguments to use against the common defence of those who say the Qurans stance against Jews is only related to those at the time who spoke out against Islam.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #11 - August 31, 2009, 04:15 PM

    When Islam considers women to be deficient in reason, and I refute this assertion ? in that case Islam attacks me, and I am merely attacking back

    That`s my best part , cause that`s how i felt when i read some tafseer of verses about women..


    Dear Prosaic, that was exactly what made my wife leave Islam. She told me that IsLam and Mohamed are nothing but gynephobic bullshit...

    ...
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #12 - August 31, 2009, 07:36 PM

    you mean this:

    In early AD 628, during a raid, Zayd, Muhammad?s freedman and adopted son, was wounded and some of his men were killed by a tribe. Zayd vowed to abstain from sex until he took revenge. After Zayd recovered from his wounds, Muhammad sent him and a raiding band back to the tribe. An old woman named Umm Qirfa was taken prisoner. Would a Muslim leader spare her from death, not to mention from torturing her? No. Her death was cruel, says an Islamic source, matter-of-factly.

    The executioner appointed by Zayd "tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to camels, and they split her in two." (Tabari)



    i didnot know this one was in tabari , but i always see muslims saying it was false..But There are plenty of other incidents they cannot deny ..

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #13 - August 31, 2009, 07:39 PM

    Dear Prosaic, that was exactly what made my wife leave Islam. She told me that IsLam and Mohamed are nothing but gynephobic bullshit...


    It made me real sad at first , and i was in denial that this is what God think of me ..i used to be proud of having a whole sura in Quran named Al nisa2 ,, lol BUT now i know why!!! ,its to tell men how to deal with these half brained , un wise , creatures called women!

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #14 - August 31, 2009, 07:53 PM

    Great find Prosaic!

    The androcentric and misogynistic nature of Islam was what ultimately let me to believe that it was false.  Why would god create one half of the human race inferior to the other, and what is his problem with women in general?  Being god, he/she/it shouldn't even be concerned about such worldly matters.  Then again, the god of Islam is a vain and vengeful god, don't ya know?

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #15 - August 31, 2009, 08:03 PM

    Great find Prosaic!

    The androcentric and misogynistic nature of Islam was what ultimately let me to believe that it was false.  Why would god create one half of the human race inferior to the other, and what is his problem with women in general?  Being god, he/she/it shouldn't even be concerned about such worldly matters.  Then again, the god of Islam is a vain and vengeful god, don't ya know?

    Now i know hun :(

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #16 - August 31, 2009, 09:37 PM

    Quote
    Do you remember the way that [the Prophet Muhammad] killed ?Asmaa bint Marwan? His followers tore her body apart limb from limb, while she was breastfeeding her child. When they returned to him shouting ?Allah Akbar,? he said: ?No two goats will lock horns over her.? As you know, goals lock horns over the most inconsequential thing. For Muhammad, however, the killing of a woman while breastfeeding was too trivial a reason for goats ?to lock horns over.? Is this a prophet of God?


    Does anyone know of the source of this hadith where he says that? I would like that for my 'files.'  Just yesterday I read an article on Islam and apostasy and death by a Muslim scholar where it was the first time I had seen a Muslim admit that yes, Mo-meister had had her killed.  Any other time, they say that is a false story, she never existed, etc.  Anything I can find from Islamic sources about these things is like gold to me.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #17 - August 31, 2009, 09:39 PM

    Quote
    When Islam considers women to be deficient in reason, and I refute this assertion ? in that case Islam attacks me, and I am merely attacking back. When Islam calls to kill whoever does not believe in it, and I refute this, in that case Islam attacks me, and I am merely attacking back. I do not attack Islam. I criticize it, but unfortunately, we, the victims of Islamic upbringing, view any criticism as an attack.


    If Imam Ahmed, the new poster, is reading here, I would like him to sort of talk about this, because I think this gets to the heart of what we were trying to say on that other thread about debating Muslims.  It's that any question, any criticism, any challenge to PROVE is taken as a criticism (and in our day and age, words like 'racist' and 'hateful' are thrown into the mix).  I don't know about the rest of the former Muslims, but I know this was true for me.  This is how I wast rained in my Islam - that any criticism is an attack of the world's most understood and totally peaceful religion.  This is why it is nearly impossible to debate Muslims without them resorting to leaving the debate, censoring you, or in a large scale case, getting violent. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #18 - August 31, 2009, 09:44 PM

    When Islam considers women to be deficient in reason, and I refute this assertion ? in that case Islam attacks me, and I am merely attacking back

    That`s my best part , cause that`s how i felt when i read some tafseer of verses about women..


    Prosaic, this was also a bit of a struggle for me. In true Islamic fashion, I ignored it, when inside I was seething about this.  I KNOW that I am not less intelligent or more deficient in reason compared to a man just because of my gender, I knew it then and I know it now.  But as a Muslim who wanted to really believe in god and his prophet, I couldn't reject this, not in the Islamic milieu I was part of.  I spent years wondering why did he say this, what does it mean?  I knew many women who were far more intelligent than many men.  I also saw, especially living in the Middle East, men react to the most trivial things with explosive, unreasonable emotion, committing acts that made the situation worse.  Honour killings is an extreme and yet prescient example.  There are men who kill female relatives (and male ones) over mere RUMOURS about the person's behavior, so drunk on rage are they!

    The traditional explanation that women are 'more emotionally motivated' than men did not hold water with me.  Showing emotions doesn't mean you are less intelligent and anyway, that is a sort of 1950s meme where men are reasonable and women are just little emotional creatures that need to be kept in check.  I wouldn't buy it from a politician or a Christian preacher, why should I buy it from this guy who is dead and can't explain himself better? I came to the conclusion that Muhammad meant exactly what he said, the modern apologetics and intellectual dishonesty notwithstanding. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #19 - August 31, 2009, 09:45 PM

    woman called Asma? Bint Marwan (Asma? the daughter of Marwan) wrote a few verses criticizing Muhammad for the killing of Abu Afak. When Muhammad heard what she had called his gang members and said to them: "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?"

    One of his clans ?Umayr Ibn Adi? volunteered.  He went to her in the night and entered her house.  Her children were sleeping around her, and there was one whom she was suckling.  He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her.  He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back.  Then he offered the morning prayers with Muhammad.  After the prayer Muhammad said to him:  "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?"  He [Muhammad] said:  "No two goats will butt together about her.?

    (Assira Annabawiyah, Ibn Hisham: The life of the Prophet by Ibn Hisham) 

     I hope this can help u ..


    Thanks for this Prosaic (I didn't see it when I asked for it).   Afro

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #20 - August 31, 2009, 10:34 PM

    Fading yw Dear , and here is the arabic link from a reliable islamic site  Kiss
    http://sirah.al-islam.com/display.asp?f=mga1182.htm

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #21 - September 01, 2009, 05:40 PM

    You can do anything in the name of Allah...ANYTHING. Including orphaning kids as young as a few months old by killing their mother....Subhan wa fucking Taalah finmad

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #22 - September 13, 2009, 04:28 PM

    Fading yw Dear , and here is the arabic link from a reliable islamic site  Kiss
    http://sirah.al-islam.com/display.asp?f=mga1182.htm

    I've seen this link before, actually many people say this site is not reliable lol. I am not quite sure but as far as I have read most scholars reject the authenticity and legitimacy of this story.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #23 - September 13, 2009, 04:32 PM

    I've seen this link before, actually many people say this site is not reliable lol. I am not quite sure but as far as I have read most scholars reject the authenticity and legitimacy of this story.


    Rejection based on what exactly?
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #24 - September 13, 2009, 07:54 PM

    I've seen this link before, actually many people say this site is not reliable lol. I am not quite sure but as far as I have read most scholars reject the authenticity and legitimacy of this story.


    Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
    Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da?wah and Guidance


    its a fundi site , and if am to take reliable infos i will take it from here , Their quran , their prophet , their religion,their history, cannot take any one`s word against their`s.

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #25 - September 19, 2009, 12:26 AM

    apparently the source of the story is not strong i.e. Tabari which states she was tortured or ripped limb from limb.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #26 - September 19, 2009, 11:03 AM

    apparently the source of the story is not strong i.e. Tabari which states she was tortured or ripped limb from limb.

    u are mixing between 2 women , umm qirfa and 3Asma2 bint marwan.

    أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
  • Re: I like this woman!
     Reply #27 - September 19, 2009, 01:45 PM

    My bad, I'm guessing the one which states Tabari as the source is the one which Muslims regard as a dubious story.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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