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 Poll

  • Question: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
  • Yes
  • No
  • I'm Somewhere in the middle
  • Not Sure

 Topic: Would you describe yourself as a communist?

 (Read 10096 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     OP - September 16, 2009, 11:25 PM
    Just trying to get a feel of what's the general opinion of everyone here regarding Communism.

    I'm somewhere in the middle.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #1 - September 17, 2009, 12:09 AM
    No. "Somewhere in the middle" means you aren't a Communist any more than it means you are an extreme right winger.  Wink
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #2 - September 17, 2009, 12:14 AM
    Well by 'somewhere in the middle' I meant personally if anyone has few communist views and some which are non-communist.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #3 - September 17, 2009, 12:24 AM
    Yes I understand. Personally I think something like that is the most sensible option. I'm not in favour of extreme, purist ideologies of any sort. They tend to be unrealistic IMO.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #4 - September 17, 2009, 12:59 AM
    I voted for "somewhere in the middle". I find the best system is a system of checks and balances where no one person, group or institution has absolute power. Not government and not corporations. Both capitalism and communism have worked to oppress more people with power structures that consolidate socio-economic power in the hands of the few at the expense of everyone else.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #5 - September 17, 2009, 01:31 AM
    I agree with Alat, but I voted no. Perhaps I don't understand communism correctly but the one thing I have against communism is that the truth of the economy is lost. As a result communism can't attract investors to pool capital and spur innovation like in a free market. Google is a fine example.
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    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #6 - September 17, 2009, 02:01 AM
    That was very well put HighOctane.


    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #7 - September 17, 2009, 02:50 AM
    Thanks  Afro Incidentally, one of the Google founders, Sergey Brin, is a Russian born American. Sometimes I wonder how much innovation could come out of Russia or even China when one looks at what Hong Kong has achieved under British rule.
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #8 - September 17, 2009, 02:58 AM
    Yeah, Sputnik, first man in space, the world's first real assault rifle that is still, by far, the most popular around the world, 7 Nobel Prize-winning physicists-- the USSR really stifled innovation.  Roll Eyes By contrast, beyond some minor refinements in military technology, I can't think of a single major innovation to come out of Russia after capitalist counterrevolution in 1991.
    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #9 - September 17, 2009, 02:59 AM
    Which one did you pick Q?
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #10 - September 17, 2009, 03:12 AM
    I picked somewhere in the middle, because some Communist ideologies could be realy rosey, but either way I think it would be really difficult to make a Communist society operate with few kinks, but then again even democracy is like that.

     wacko
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #11 - September 17, 2009, 03:48 AM
    Quote from: Tommy on September 17, 2009, 02:59 AM
    Which one did you pick Q?


    I picked "Not Sure".

    Although I consider myself a libertarian socialist, not a Communist, and had I been in Russia in 1917, I probably would have been with the Black Army and been liquidated by the Reds, it's all relative...

    It's hard to say whether Russia would have been better or not had the February and October Revolutions never occurred, but there's a strong argument to be made that, aside from the easing of travel restrictions outside the country, that Russia was better off under Communist rule than it is today-- considering the skyrocketing of crime, incarceration rates, homelessness, etc. after 1991.

    Eastern Europe, with the exception of Yugoslavia, was definitely worse off with Communism, as it was (with the exception of Yugoslavia and Albania) the imposition of Russian imperialism more than anything else. But, even then-- had not the Communists controlled Eastern Europe would the Western European capitalist powers have been as motivated to introduce some socialistic reforms to smooth the most inhumane, rough edges of capitalism within their own societies? And if Eastern Europeans had to suffer under Soviet imperialism as a trade-off for the Red Army smashing the Nazi war machine, was it not worth it?

    China I think was probably worse off for Communism. The Communist system in Cuba is definitely better than what it replaced. Yugoslavia was definitely better off with Communism than what came before OR after. In Africa, Latin America, the Middle East and Afghanistan I would say the Commies were definitely on the right side of history.

    So I think it's more complicated that just saying Communism is good or bad or that somewhere in between capitalism and communism is where we need to shoot for. Although my ideology is very much opposed to Communism on some basic levels, and also shares some fundamental similarities, I can't judge Communism on a purely ideological basis-- I feel like consideration of relative practical circumstances and outcomes is equally important. Although I'm a fan of deontological thinking at a basic level, there's pragmatic side to me that cannot completely ignore consequences and relative conditions.
    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #12 - September 17, 2009, 04:00 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on September 17, 2009, 02:58 AM
    Yeah, Sputnik, first man in space, the world's first real assault rifle that is still, by far, the most popular around the world, 7 Nobel Prize-winning physicists-- the USSR really stifled innovation.  Roll Eyes By contrast, beyond some minor refinements in military technology, I can't think of a single major innovation to come out of Russia after capitalist counterrevolution in 1991.


    Sure, there are some ridiculously smart Russians out there! But as I understand it, a command economy yearning for superpower status, focusing R&D narrowly, without the truthful economic support eventually caused a stagnated & bankrupt economy. R&D needs to be broad throughout all industries as demanded by the market.

    Additionally, the costs of superpower status?the military, space program, subsidies to client states?were out of proportion to the Soviet economy. The new wave of industrialization based upon information technology had left the Soviet Union desperate for Western technology and credits in order to counter its increasing backwardness.

    Interesting to note Russia's GDP growth over the recent years:


    Look forward to your post, I'm pretty sure you understand the situation better seeing you know Russia well. AK-47 must a Mujahideen's favorite toy!
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #13 - September 17, 2009, 05:30 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on September 17, 2009, 03:48 AM
    I picked "Not Sure".

    A Commie American!, Ive heard it all
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #14 - September 17, 2009, 07:47 AM
    I wouldn't support communism ever

    But I would support some kind of totalitarian regime as long as it was incorruptable and allowed permanent prosperity for the people. Also, no ethnic or racial discrimination and complete equality

    Having said that, I don't see it ever happening-unless we build robots capable of such governing.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #15 - September 17, 2009, 08:06 AM
    No way. Hoary, naive old ideology, if there ever was one.
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #16 - September 17, 2009, 03:11 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on September 17, 2009, 04:00 AM
    Sure, there are some ridiculously smart Russians out there! But as I understand it, a command economy yearning for superpower status, focusing R&D narrowly, without the truthful economic support eventually caused a stagnated & bankrupt economy. R&D needs to be broad throughout all industries as demanded by the market.

    Additionally, the costs of superpower status?the military, space program, subsidies to client states?were out of proportion to the Soviet economy. The new wave of industrialization based upon information technology had left the Soviet Union desperate for Western technology and credits in order to counter its increasing backwardness.


    To start, I am no expert on Russia-- not even close. While it's true that the USSR's command economy did narrowly focus R&D* and made many errors, I would attribute the cause of the Soviet economy's collapse to three main things:

    1. Stagnation and decay during the middle and late Brezshnev era. Though Stalin was scum and made some huge miscalculations when it came to the economy, and Khrushchev also made some huge errors, both periods were characterized by dynamism in Soviet society.

    2. The end of detente/The Soviet-Afghan War (and the Solidarnosc movement to a lesser extent). This simply pushed their budget beyond the breaking point after decades of stagnation and decay under the Brezshnev bureaucracy.

    3. Risky and naive moves made by Gorbachev. If Andropov had lived longer, I think that may have bought the USSR at least a few more years, maybe even a decade or more if they were lucky.

    *In the areas in which they did focus R&D, however-- they made some pretty fuckin impressive innovations. The type and scale of which I have yet to see come out of the post-Soviet Republics.

    Quote
    Interesting to note Russia's GDP growth over the recent years:
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Okay, I've got several issues with this graph:

    1. First of all, my response to you was about technological innovation, and GDP is not necessarily any indicator of that.

    2. GDP is not necessarily a good indicator of quality of life, either. For instance, crime and incarceration rates in Russia are still very, very high by European standards (both much higher than during the Soviet era), and those sort of things aren't going to come across in this graph.

    3. The graph starts in 1992, a full year after the dissolution after the Soviet Union (although things really started tanking in 1990, a year before dissolution), and since the discussion was Communist Russia vs. "capitalist" Russia, not Yeltsin vs. Putin, a chart from 1923 onward would be much more helpful if we want to include GDP growth as part of the analysis.

    Quote from: HenriMonier on September 17, 2009, 07:47 AM
    I wouldn't support communism ever


    Never say never...erm...or "ever". If you were in Afghanistan in 1981, you wouldn't support the PDPA over the mujahadeen? If you were in Yugoslavia in 1942, you wouldn't have supported the Partisans over the Chetniks, Ustase and Wehrmacht? If you were in Brussels in 1941 and had an opportunity to help the Red Orchestra, you'd refuse?
    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #17 - September 17, 2009, 03:20 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on September 16, 2009, 11:25 PM
    Just trying to get a feel of what's the general opinion of everyone here regarding Communism.


    I would never want to live under a Communist regime.

    I think the idea behind it was well-intentioned but it has proven to be a failure everywhere it has been tried - often resulting in a repressive, totalitarian regime.

    I like Churchill's quote: "Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

    My politics are middle of the road (in a European sense - in a USA sense I am a Whacky Leftie!)

     dance




  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #18 - September 17, 2009, 03:25 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on September 17, 2009, 03:20 PM
    I would never want to live under a Communist regime.

    I think the idea behind it was well-intentioned but it has proven to be a failure everywhere it has been tried - often resulting in a repressive, totalitarian regime.


    I would strongly dispute the assertion that Communism was a failure in Yugoslavia or that the regime was totalitarian (or even much more repressive than most Western European powers at the time).

    I would also venture to say that in many (though certainly not all, maybe not even most) cases, even where it was a "failure", it was a marked improvement over either what came before (e.g. Cuba) or what came after (e.g. Russia) or both (e.g. Afghanistan).
    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #19 - September 17, 2009, 04:03 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on September 17, 2009, 03:25 PM
    I would also venture to say that in many (though certainly not all, maybe not even most) cases, even where it was a "failure", it was a marked improvement over either what came before (e.g. Cuba) or what came after (e.g. Russia) or both (e.g. Afghanistan).


    Devil or the deep blue sea.

    In the first two cases people are/were just in a different kind of hell. Basic material standard but no freedom. What has come after Communism in Russia must also be considered an effect of Communism and does therefore not improve its standing.

    I know too little of the third case to want to comment.

    Communism, Fascism, Islamism have one common trait: Denying people's equal worth based on some criteria: ethnicity, political view, religious affiliation, sex. They also have lousy track records in real world implementations.

    Give me democracy and free speech any day.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #20 - September 17, 2009, 04:15 PM
    Quote



    Never say never...erm...or "ever". If you were in Afghanistan in 1981, you wouldn't support the PDPA over the mujahadeen? If you were in Yugoslavia in 1942, you wouldn't have supported the Partisans over the Chetniks, Ustase and Wehrmacht? If you were in Brussels in 1941 and had an opportunity to help the Red Orchestra, you'd refuse?



    Not to play the devils advocate (that's your job   Wink) but I wouldn't support the Communists in any of those situations.

    In Afghanistan, if I were an Afghan and I see foreign invaders in my land I would sell my soul to the devil to expel them-well not the devil, but the Mujahideen would have my support until all foreign invaders were gone.

    In Yugoslavia it would very much depend-if I were a Bosniak or Croat then I would be in favour of the Chetniks, Ustase and Wehrmacht. The problem is that if I wereone of these ethnicities I would most likely regard the Serbs and the Romas as enemies and therefore I would be in favour of the Ustase. If I were a Serb though then I would likely support the Partisans.

    In Brussels in 1941 if I were a Belgian then I would support the Nazis. I would be living fairly peacefully and the German side would seem to be winning, at that time it wouldn't be likely for anyone to beat them anytime soon. Plus you have to remember that Nazi attrocities were often hiden from ordinary citizens, to them the Jews, Romas, Slavs etc etc were being deported or relocated-I wouldn't really care-it was 1941 and the people had a different mindset-modern sympathy for other groups only really came into question after the attrocities of WW2 and in 1941-they were happening but I would have no idea. So as an ordinary citizen I would support the Nazis.

    You challenged me for realism and I gave you realistic answers. As we all know, you can't judge the past by standards of the present-and if you want me to put myself in hypothetical scenarios of the past, I will put myself wholeheartidly in them and look at what a 1941 citizen would do in 1941, not what a 2009 Middle class Brit would do in 1941.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #21 - September 17, 2009, 04:18 PM
    Quote from: SE-man on September 17, 2009, 04:03 PM
    Devil or the deep blue sea.

    In the first two cases people are/were just in a different kind of hell. Basic material standard but no freedom.


    Freedoms are difficult to exercise without basic material standards. I would also like some proof that Cubans were "freer" under Batista, or that Russians were freer under the Tsar or today. There are fewer travel restrictions on Russians today than during Soviet rule, but you still need a visa to leave the country, and visas for internal travel-- furthermore there is a much higher incarceration rate today than during Soviet rule, and while the KGB may be gone, I see little evidence that the FSB is much less repressive than its predecessors (journalists and other dissidents are murdered with alarming regularity), and now Russian citizens also have to worry about oppression from the private sector (organized crime, etc.) as much as from the government. Russia may be a little freer today than under, say, Brezshnev-- but even if that's true, it certainly ain't by much.

    Quote
    What has come after Communism in Russia must also be considered an effect of Communism and does therefore not improve its standing.


    No, it must be considered as an effect of hundreds of years of history, not just 70 years of Soviet rule, as well as the effect of contemporary conditions. Sorry, I know you are looking for an "out" to put the blame for all the ills of post-capitalist restoration Russia ("it's all the Commies' fault"), but it ain't that simple.

    Quote
    I know too little of the third case to want to comment.


    Women treated as equal human beings vs. women treated as chattel slaves for men-- what else do you need to know?
    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #22 - September 17, 2009, 04:24 PM
    I'd support Communism to get rid of Islamic extremism, like in Afghanistan, which would've been much better off had it remained Commie till 1991!

    Otherwise, Communism is another ideology which stifles human freedom, makes people unable to fulfill their potential & wrecks nice nations, exactly like I....!(at least, minus the misogyny, & religious intolerance is shown to all religions, not just other religions  Tongue)Just compare North & South Korea, or China's economic growth in its Commie phase with other East Asian nations, or Brazil & Cuba!
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #23 - September 17, 2009, 04:26 PM
    Quote from: HenriMonier on September 17, 2009, 04:15 PM
    You challenged me for realism and I gave you realistic answers. As we all know, you can't judge the past by standards of the present-and if you want me to put myself in hypothetical scenarios of the past, I will put myself wholeheartidly in them and look at what a 1941 citizen would do in 1941, not what a 2009 Middle class Brit would do in 1941.


    Okay fair enough, but giving a "realistic" answer doesn't necessarily mean that you should give an answer without regard to any ethical or political principles, which is basically what you did. It's not like all working-class people during WWII made decisions based totally on self-interest without factoring in political or ethical principles. Certainly many Belgians did give up their lives to help Soviet intelligence during WWII when it would have been much, much safer and easier to not help, and they knew it. And although the factions in the Balkans during WWII did largely fall along ethnic lines, that wasn't totally the case. The Partisans were largely Serbs but they were led by a Croat-- because obviously political principle trumped tribal allegiance or pure self-preservation for Tito. There were also Bosniaks who served in the Partisans.
    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #24 - September 17, 2009, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on September 17, 2009, 03:11 PM

    *In the areas in which they did focus R&D, however-- they made some pretty fuckin impressive innovations. The type and scale of which I have yet to see come out of the post-Soviet Republics.


    Well you do know the history well. I haven't looked into the miscalculations, but I think it's due to there being no "truth in the economy". Supply & demands must happen through market forces, not just because a leader orders a certain amount of steel to be made.

    As to R&D of late:

    Post-Putin years
    ... the IT industry has recorded a record year of growth concentrating on high end niches like algorithm design and microelectronics ... Russia is now the world's third biggest destination for outsourcing software behind India and China. The space launch industry is now the world's second largest behind the European Ariane 5 and nuclear power plant companies are going from strength to strength, selling plants to China and India ...
    The civilian aerospace industry has developed the Sukhoi Superjet, as well as the upcoming MS 21 project to compete with Boeing and Airbus.

    R&D might not be as ground breaking with symbols of superiority - but it is responding to the global market where there is demand. When GDP increases and more tax comes in them more can be invested in public services and deal with crime, etc. Sure, the graph should be extended, best I can find. I haven't looked into the crime issue properly but I suspect the dwindling economy (due to the communist years) and corruption has caused this. Complete opinion here though, I'll look into it sometime, unless you can show evidence for the crime being due to a free market. In looking this up I'm surprised to see Brazil with the highest murders:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide_rate_by_country.svg
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  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #25 - September 17, 2009, 04:41 PM
    The two are nearly the same to me.

    Sorry Qman, but I wouldn't give a hoot about politics at either time, and being me unless there was some serious ethical issues (let's face it, in the 1940s the deportation of another ethnic group isn't a huge issue for most people) I would go with the most viable situation for me and my family. I know it may sound selfish and very introverted but that's the kind of person I am.

    Judge me as you may.
    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #26 - September 17, 2009, 04:43 PM
    Quote from: Rashna on September 17, 2009, 04:24 PM
    I'd support Communism to get rid of Islamic extremism, like in Afghanistan, which would've been much better off had it remained Commie till 1991!


    That's not saying much. You'd probably murder your own grandma, stab little kids and punch puppies in the face to oppose Islam.

    Quote
    Just compare North & South Korea, or China's economic growth in its Commie phase with other East Asian nations, or Brazil & Cuba!


    Oh yeah, that's a fair comparison-- compare a huge, resource-rich nation with a tiny island nation that is being embargoed by its largest potential trading partner.
    fuck you
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #27 - September 17, 2009, 04:59 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on September 17, 2009, 04:43 PM
    That's not saying much. You'd probably murder your own grandma, stab little kids and punch puppies in the face to oppose Islam.


    Evidence I'd do any of these? Or I have ever done stuff like these?

    Its not I who goes around stabbing\lashing women who don't dress properly like ghosts or dare talk to non related men, nor do I blow up little girls' schools shouting "Allahu Akbar"! Wink

    Islamic extremists in Afghanistan(& some other places) do & I think tha a good dose of Communism would do them good!
    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #28 - September 17, 2009, 05:00 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on September 17, 2009, 04:18 PM
    Freedoms are difficult to exercise without basic material standards. I would also like some proof that Cubans were "freer" under Batista, or that Russians were freer under the Tsar or today.


    Batista was a dictator. The Tsar was a despot. People were in hell.
    Communism came. People got a slight material standard improvement with wealth being spread more equally. OK, a good start, I'll give you that. But they still did not have freedom of speech or the ability to influence the state's development. They still had to worry about secret police. No further positive development came after that initial improvement.

    Quote
    No, it must be considered as an effect of hundreds of years of history, not just 70 years of Soviet rule, as well as the effect of contemporary conditions. Sorry, I know you are looking for an "out" to put the blame for all the ills of post-capitalist restoration Russia ("it's all the Commies' fault"), but it ain't that simple.


    As I remember History from school: Russia before the revolutions had no democratic experience. It was governed by a despot Tsar as his own personal property. After the first revolution, development could have gone in a social democratic, reformist, way. Then Lenin and his ilk did their part. Enter dictatorship. A dictatorship that mismanaged the country, resulting in a final collapse and extreme financial difficulties.

    I can't help but track the difficulties of today's Russia to these 70 years of mismanagement and keeping any democratic tendencies down. When finally dictatorship broke down they were not ready to handle it. Despite attempts at help from other parties, the transition failed. So crime, ruffian politicians and finally a Strong Man resulted. Had there not been a second revolution, maybe we would have seen a democratic Russia today? We will never know.
  • Re: Would you describe yourself as a communist?
     Reply #29 - September 17, 2009, 05:07 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on September 16, 2009, 11:25 PM
    Just trying to get a feel of what's the general opinion of everyone here regarding Communism.

    I'm somewhere in the middle.


    Hi,

    I do describe myself as a communist, yet more often as a socialist.

    One of the greatest tasks of genuine revolutionaries everywhere is to dispel the myth that the Soviet Union was in any way, shape, or form socialist/communist. Tell me how a society with: Money, wages, banks, exchange values, commodities, exploitation, classes, a state, an army can be socialist or communist? To name a society in which those features existed socialism-communism (defined by the absence of those features) - to call it what it is precisely not - is the most perverse lie of our age. Nothing less than a deliberate means to empty the idea 'socialism', or 'communism', of any meaningful content. In fact, to deny it any meaning it might have whatsoever.

    The Bolshevik revolution and many others, applying Marx's ideas to situations they barely applied, with varying degrees of self-consciousness, failing to do so, and then butchering the same ideas in order to pretend it was otherwise, set us back. They were the coming to power of new classes in quasi feudal countries. Bourgeois revolutions, without a bourgeoisie.

    Yet more perverse and contorted is the idea that to even attempt to understand, confront, or meaningfully solve human alienation is responsible for that very thing. That the project to fundamentally reshape the political universe we live in, our most urgent necessity, is dangerous. That the struggle for total emancipation is the source of oppression, rather than the only solution to it.

    As uncertain, as difficult this project is (it can even be said to have 'dangers'), the alternative is to let things stay on their course - for an unsustainable, irrational system to continue to run the world. A system which is more likely to kill everyone, than feed everyone. To allow capital to penetrate and shape everything - from every domain of social reality, to every relationship - from every sphere of life, down to the very substance of life itself. _That_ is suicidal.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
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