Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.

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Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
OP - September 19, 2009, 09:34 AM

Guy please help me here...

I was involved in a major discussion last night with a group of Muslim friends, and pointed out that Muhammed must have known lots of facts about Christianity and Judaism from Khadeja's cousin waraka ibn nawfal, but could not find any references that document that Waraka was a scholar in religion and an authority in his time. Can you please point me to trysted sources that show how much waraqa knew about the old and new testament or the Taourat or any other religions?

Thanks! I am meeting them tonight and they seemed interested with the hypothesis that Mohamed was not illiterate after all. This is important to me.

Thanx

RIBS

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #1 - September 19, 2009, 09:42 AM

Hadith #3 Vol. 1 Bukhari
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/001.sbt.html

Quote
Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #2 - September 19, 2009, 09:46 AM

There seems to be a stack of stuff about him online and all of it seems to be saying he was pretty knowledgeable.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=svw&q=waraka+ibn+nawfal&start=10&sa=N

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #3 - September 19, 2009, 09:46 AM

Quote from: RIBS on September 19, 2009, 09:34 AM
Guy please help me here...

I was involved in a major discussion last night with a group of Muslim friends, and pointed out that Muhammed must have known lots of facts about Christianity and Judaism from Khadeja's cousin waraka ibn nawfal, but could not find any references that document that Waraka was a scholar in religion and an authority in his time. Can you please point me to trysted sources that show how much waraqa knew about the old and new testament or the Taourat or any other religions?

Thanks! I am meeting them tonight and they seemed interested with the hypothesis that Mohamed was not illiterate after all. This is important to me.

Thanx

RIBS

Well, try this site:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/waraqa.htm

Also, I think it'd be cool if you can point out to some Muslims that pre Islamic Arabia was an extremely religiously tolerant society, coz Waraqa could convert to Xtianity without any apparent persecution & even discuss Christianity with whoever he wanted, so could Mo's cousin Ubaydalla ibn Jahsh.

Also, from Islamic sources, we learn of Kaab ibn al Ashraf who had a Jewish mother, pagan father, according to halacha he was brought up Jewish.

Muslims love to claim that Mo & his followers suffered persecution & intolerance, but the fact remains that even from Islamic sources, we see religious tolerance vanishing only with Islam.

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #4 - September 19, 2009, 11:31 AM

http://montada.echoroukonline.com/showthread.php?t=6469

http://www.alkalema.net/maghol/maghol13.htm

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #5 - September 19, 2009, 11:45 AM

I think the muslims would say that Waraqah wasn't around very long after Mo proclaimed himself a prophet. Waraqah was already aged and died soon afterwards. I've not seen any evidence to the contrary and whatever charges are put up against it are usually dismissed as conjecture. Although very little is known about Mo's early life that it is open to speculation.
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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #6 - September 19, 2009, 11:59 AM

many thanks Guys for your references. I will sive through them and see if I find some trusted references that I can quote.

Omaar, it does not matter to me if he died early, my hypothesis to them was that Mohammed Married Khadija for about 15 years. I guess he must have been lingering around and take a lot of info about ancient knowledge that Waraqa might have had. I mean, people now can have a PhD degree in 3 years. So 15 years of study (even verbal, oral) can make one knowledgeable of many stories from other religions and also it is enough time to get all the presumably miracles of the Quran.

When I said this to them, they said the don't belive that Waraqa was knowledgeable, they demanded references that proof Waraqa was a scholar then. I guess this can remain a mere speculation or a hypothesis only.

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #7 - September 19, 2009, 12:14 PM

even if he did die early , still he left his work behind him .

http://www.islamqa.com/ar/ref/13488/%D9%86%D9%88%D9%81%D9%84

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #8 - September 19, 2009, 02:23 PM

Wait a second,..... Khadija said: "Allah won't let you down"? Is she a Muslim already? I am confused now.

قال لخديجة : أي خديجة ، ما لي لقد خشيت على نفسي
قالت خديجة : كلا أبشر فوالله لا يخزيك الله أبدا ، فوالله إنك لتصل الرحم ، وتصدق الحديث ، وتحمل الكلَّ وتكسب المعدوم ، وتقري الضيف ، وتعين على نوائب الحق

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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #9 - September 19, 2009, 02:42 PM

Quote from: RIBS on September 19, 2009, 02:23 PM
Wait a second,..... Khadija said: "Allah won't let you down"? Is she a Muslim already? I am confused now.

قال لخديجة : أي خديجة ، ما لي لقد خشيت على نفسي
قالت خديجة : كلا أبشر فوالله لا يخزيك الله أبدا ، فوالله إنك لتصل الرحم ، وتصدق الحديث ، وتحمل الكلَّ وتكسب المعدوم ، وتقري الضيف ، وتعين على نوائب الحق

I think the term "Allah" was already used in pre-islamic Arabia.
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Re: Waraka Ibn Nawfal: Urgently need a refrence.
Reply #10 - September 19, 2009, 07:12 PM

Yes the term Allah existed from b4, sabians even used to say la illah ela Allah , i read an article about them here once before ..

أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدآ عبده ورسوله
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