Soothsaying!

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- Omaar Khayaam
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Soothsaying!
OP - September 20, 2009, 08:09 PM

Guys, I dunno how this works, but I had a conversation with my sister today about my atheism and basically left it in her court to re-read the material and not to listen to whatever her "shaykh" tells her. Her knowledge in terms of the beginnings of Islam and Ibn Ishaq etc is very limited. But that doesn't bother me. What I'm perplexed about was that her "shaykh" managed to tell her three months that her brother was losing his faith. Now how does that work?
- Cheetah
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #1 - September 20, 2009, 08:10 PM

Cold reading, the same way "mediums" and the like do it.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #2 - September 20, 2009, 09:24 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on September 20, 2009, 08:10 PM
Cold reading, the same way "mediums" and the like do it.

Never understood how that actually worked. Strange thing though is he said that I was losing my faith. Trouble is, is that I lost my faith alot longer than that and i've been losing my faith slowly long ago. Anyhow I told her to read again and this time with an open mind. I wanted to tell her about Hassan's vids as well. She insisted that I should go see this "shaykh". I told her that I don't need to prove anything and if anything he should see me. The conversation ended with some ad-hom attacks with her saying that I was going through a phase and that I wouldn't see the scholar just in case he would refute me. To be honest before I even see the scholar i'll send her those docs i've put together and see whether or not she would be comfortable with the hadith etc. She said that reading too much causes confusion! Oh! and that I was looking at it using logic which was not the right way to look at it! Honestly even academics can be stupid!
- Cheetah
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #3 - September 20, 2009, 09:33 PM

Quote
Never understood how that actually worked. Strange thing though is he said that I was losing my faith.

Did you actually hear him say that? A lot of cold reading works by being just about accurate enough to feed off the confirmation bias of the readee. He may have said something a lot more vague than that, like "someone close to you is struggling with their deen".

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #4 - September 20, 2009, 09:38 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on September 20, 2009, 09:33 PM
Did you actually hear him say that? A lot of cold reading works by being just about accurate enough to feed off the confirmation bias of the readee. He may have said something a lot more vague than that, like "someone close to you is struggling with their deen".

My sister just told me that he said "Your brother is losing his faith". My sister wasn't aware that I was struggling with my faith. She only found out about my atheism because my mum told her. This "shaykh" told her this three months ago, which would have been June.
- Cheetah
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #5 - September 20, 2009, 09:49 PM

You mean according to her the sheikh told her that? That's what confirmation bias does, it messes with peoples' perceptions of an experience or memory of a conversation.

http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #6 - September 20, 2009, 09:58 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on September 20, 2009, 09:49 PM
You mean according to her the sheikh told her that? That's what confirmation bias does, it messes with peoples' perceptions of an experience or memory of a conversation.

http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html

You know I'd love to invite this fellow to my uncles house for a debunking? I'd love to debunk him in front of my sister, just to show her what a charlatan this guy is. I've come across this before when I asked a similar "shaykh" why my parents got divorced? He said that my mother talked too much and my father was stubborn. Which was spot on! But then I thought to myself that it was generally a common trait amongst Pakistani couples and he didn't unearth anything special.
- Cheetah
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #7 - September 20, 2009, 10:01 PM

Yes, and as it says somewhere on that link I gave you, just as scientists can sometimes get things wrong, pseudo scientists and other charlatans can sometimes get things right.

You should invite the Sheikh over for dinner.......

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #8 - September 20, 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on September 20, 2009, 10:01 PM
Yes, and as it says somewhere on that link I gave you, just as scientists can sometimes get things wrong, pseudo scientists and other charlatans can sometimes get things right.

You should invite the Sheikh over for dinner.......

I'll try and get more info from my sister and see if I can get some sort of trap set!
- Mixu Paatelainen
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #9 - September 22, 2009, 09:30 PM

I'd read this book if I were you. Its a brilliant book and debunks all that shit, as well as crap like alternative therapy etc.

Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #10 - September 22, 2009, 09:31 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on September 22, 2009, 09:30 PM
I'd read this book if I were you. Its a brilliant book and debunks all that shit, as well as crap like alternative therapy etc.

(Clicky for piccy!)

I think I've got an e-book version of this. But I hate reading e-books.
- Mixu Paatelainen
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #11 - September 22, 2009, 09:34 PM

I can't concentrate when reading ebooks, but it is worth buying. Its only about 6 quid and Derren Brown is a very clever man. Derren Brown actually played a part (albeit, not a massive part) in my apostising.

Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
- pakman
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #12 - September 22, 2009, 09:37 PM

Incredibly smart guy Derren is.

Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
- King Koopa
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #13 - December 26, 2009, 01:12 PM

Love Derren Brown. Used to watch all of his shows and wanted to be a mentalist. But it requires a lot of work and study. Obviously I never believed in magic, therefore I didn't think the Quran actually meant magic is real as in MAGIC IS FUCKING REAL. So I never stopped wanting to become a mentalist because of the Quran. Man, sometimes I wonde if I was ever really a proper muslim? Or was I one for only a very short period? It's funny how Allah never corrected me even though I have been praying to make me a better muslim for the past 7 years!! And look were I ended up! I guess it's that Qadr at work again or the magic of the Shaitan!!
- King Koopa
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #14 - December 26, 2009, 01:12 PM

@OK

Did you ever invite the scholar?
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #15 - December 26, 2009, 01:30 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on December 26, 2009, 01:12 PM
@OK

Did you ever invite the scholar?

No, not yet. But I've seen others.
- King Koopa
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Re: Soothsaying!
Reply #16 - December 26, 2009, 01:36 PM

How did those debates go
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