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 Topic: Is there such thing as right and wrong?

 (Read 3908 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     OP - September 28, 2009, 12:21 PM
    I just want to know whether all of you still believe there is such thing as right and wrong. please state your reason. thank you.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #1 - September 28, 2009, 12:37 PM
    No there is no such as thing as right & wrong, its always dependent on context
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  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #2 - September 28, 2009, 12:42 PM
    Not inherently no.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #3 - September 28, 2009, 12:44 PM
    Yes there is, but it's dependent upon the context ie it's wrong to kill but to kill in self defence is right.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #4 - September 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
     Like any animal that evolved to live in groups we have also evolved "morals".  Some notions of morality are hard wired into us at such a basic level that people who don't know any better think they're proof of God.

    So yes, there is an inherent concept of right and wrong.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #5 - September 28, 2009, 12:55 PM
    I do believe that there is such thing as right and wrong, because right is what we see as what is acceptable to us and wrong what is being perceived as unacceptable. For example, people don't accept when a particular race is being discriminated, right?
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #6 - September 28, 2009, 12:57 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on September 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
     Like any animal that evolved to live in groups we have also evolved "morals".  Some notions of morality are hard wired into us at such a basic level that people who don't know any better think they're proof of God.

    So yes, there is an inherent concept of right and wrong.


    I was just going to say exactly that! I was also going to add that on top of the basic morals, we also have morals which are socially constructed which are not universal to humans.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #7 - September 28, 2009, 02:58 PM
    Quote from: li on September 28, 2009, 12:55 PM
    I do believe that there is such thing as right and wrong, because right is what we see as what is acceptable to us and wrong what is being perceived as unacceptable. For example, people don't accept when a particular race is being discriminated, right?


    But then again that is your perception.  It may not be the case with other people.  Racial discrimination is a classical example of that.  Quite a lot of people I have met  were not bothered if a certain race, or another were being discriminated against.

    The thing is that everybody will act according to what they perceive as being the right way.  Even Hitler thought that he was doing what was right.

    And as other members have stated, we tend to see certain actions as right and others as wrong because they were the traits that helped us survive when we were all still living in tribes.  What contributed to the stability of the tribe and increased the chances of more members surviving was passed on.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #8 - September 28, 2009, 03:31 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on September 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
    Like any animal that evolved to live in groups we have also evolved "morals".  Some notions of morality are hard wired into us at such a basic level that people who don't know any better think they're proof of God.

    So yes, there is an inherent concept of right and wrong.

    Such as?
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  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #9 - September 28, 2009, 03:33 PM
    Not killing each other and not stealing off each other would be the two main ones.   I know there are transgressors, (just as there are rogue elephants and lone wolves, etc), but all human societies punish transgressions of those two, even the most primitive tribes.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #10 - September 28, 2009, 03:37 PM
    I suppose it depends on how we interpret the original question - i.e. on a state, as a group or a personal level..
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  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #11 - September 28, 2009, 06:21 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on September 28, 2009, 02:58 PM
    we tend to see certain actions as right and others as wrong because they were the traits that helped us survive when we were all still living in tribes.  What contributed to the stability of the tribe and increased the chances of more members surviving was passed on.

    This, but I believed in this even back when I used to follow Islam.
    "At 8:47 I do a grenade jump off a ladder."
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #12 - September 28, 2009, 07:27 PM
    So?  Im not saying that it must be the absolute truth but it does make some sense.

     That 'natural sense' of basic right and wrong actions definitely does not originate from religion though. 
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #13 - September 28, 2009, 09:17 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on September 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
     Like any animal that evolved to live in groups we have also evolved "morals".  Some notions of morality are hard wired into us at such a basic level that people who don't know any better think they're proof of God.

    So yes, there is an inherent concept of right and wrong.


    I agree with this. I think there is also an aspect of memeplex involved too, e.g. in some cultures it's acceptable to skip ques or get someone in line to get something for you or even not have a queue but just one big crowd.

    Also, since there is likely to be a deviation between characteristics within a population, then wrongs/rights between people of the same population will differ as will other between other cultures.

    I have a theory in obtaining the best morals: study highly successful and effective organizations. I'm pretty sure they'll have the least amount of cheaters, corruption, highest unity, shared faith, social/mental well being, group defence against the enemy (or competitors), etc, etc. I'm pretty sure this is a debatable, so as I say, just a theory!
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    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #14 - September 30, 2009, 04:37 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on September 28, 2009, 02:58 PM
    But then again that is your perception.  It may not be the case with other people.  Racial discrimination is a classical example of that.  Quite a lot of people I have met  were not bothered if a certain race, or another were being discriminated against.

    The thing is that everybody will act according to what they perceive as being the right way.  Even Hitler thought that he was doing what was right.

    And as other members have stated, we tend to see certain actions as right and others as wrong because they were the traits that helped us survive when we were all still living in tribes.  What contributed to the stability of the tribe and increased the chances of more members surviving was passed on.

    Evolution only provides a very basic morality, this basic morality can change due to your upbringing, environment, gene mutations, etc.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #15 - September 30, 2009, 05:00 PM
    Absolutely. I'm always right, and anyone who disagrees with or opposes me is wrong.
    fuck you
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #16 - November 01, 2009, 02:33 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on September 28, 2009, 12:37 PM
    No there is no such as thing as right & wrong, its always dependent on context

     How abt those former muslims that lives in islamic country, is it right to kill them? the answer is no, because there is right and wrong on the basic level

    Quote from: BerberElla on September 28, 2009, 12:44 PM
    Yes there is, but it's dependent upon the context ie it's wrong to kill but to kill in self defence is right.

     no, it is never right to kill, but people do that because they have no choice, it is because they want to live. Ironically, even in killing of the aggrassors, we still view that killing is wrong.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #17 - November 01, 2009, 02:41 PM
    its still dependent on the context - what if they were evil peole that were about to commit genocidal attrocities on a large scale and the only way of stopping them was by killing them?
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  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #18 - November 02, 2009, 02:10 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on November 01, 2009, 02:41 PM
    its still dependent on the context - what if they were evil peole that were about to commit genocidal attrocities on a large scale and the only way of stopping them was by killing them?

     this thread made me realised that the existance of right and wrong does not mean that one should ignore away one's comon sense, if that kind of evil did exists then it is a matter of whether we die, he live or he dies, we live. If there is a better way in dealing with that guy then, i'm sure that we will take that solution first but as yo say, there is none. We still see that killing is wrong but we will do anything when we finds that our lives is in danger and it just shows that we are creatures that believes in our own right to exist. But sadly, the law of apostasy in islam does not specifically apply to evil but to innocent people whom simply decided that the grass is greener on other side of the road:

    Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
    Narrated 'Ikrima:

    Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).'?I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"?

    if there's no right or wrong then surely, there's nothing wrong with this, right?
     
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #19 - November 03, 2009, 09:23 PM
    Interesting quote on the issue I guess.

    "Take any action allowed to be vicious: Willful murder, for instance. Examine it in all lights, and see if you can find that matter of fact, or real existence, which you call vice. In whichever way you take it, you find only certain passions, motives, volitions and thoughts. There is no other matter of fact in the case. The vice entirely... Read more escapes you, as long as you consider the object. You never can find it, till you turn your reflection into your own breast, and find a sentiment of disapprobation, which arises in you, towards this action... It lies in yourself, not in the object. So that when you pronounce any action or character to be vicious, you mean nothing, but that from the constitution of your nature you have a feeling or sentiment of blame from the contemplation of it."

    - David Hume, A Treatise of Human Nature
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #20 - November 03, 2009, 10:21 PM
    Quote from: Frollo on November 03, 2009, 09:23 PM
    Interesting quote on the issue I guess.

    "Take any action allowed to be vicious: Willful murder, for instance. Examine it in all lights, and see if you can find that matter of fact, or real existence, which you call vice. In whichever way you take it, you find only certain passions, motives, volitions and thoughts. There is no other matter of fact in the case. The vice entirely... Read more escapes you, as long as you consider the object. You never can find it, till you turn your reflection into your own breast, and find a sentiment of disapprobation, which arises in you, towards this action... It lies in yourself, not in the object. So that when you pronounce any action or character to be vicious, you mean nothing, but that from the constitution of your nature you have a feeling or sentiment of blame from the contemplation of it."

    - David Hume, A Treatise of Human Nature


    I like David Hume. I'm looking forward to reading "A Treatise of Human Nature". Being an empiricist he has views which are balanced and close to reality. Have you read is "Dialogues on natural religion" and "History of natural religion"?
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #21 - November 03, 2009, 10:59 PM
    Quote
    I like David Hume. I'm looking forward to reading "A Treatise of Human Nature". Being an empiricist he has views which are balanced and close to reality. Have you read is "Dialogues on natural religion" and "History of natural religion"?

    Unfortunatly I've only read his historical books, I've been meaning to read his other works for ages.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #22 - November 03, 2009, 11:11 PM
    Quote from: Frollo on November 03, 2009, 10:59 PM
    Unfortunatly I've only read his historical books, I've been meaning to read his other works for ages.


    Dialogues is well worth the read. It's in a three-way dialogue format. What other philosophy books have you read? I recently read "Beyond Good and Evil" and heard a lecture about Nietzsche. Fascinating person and seriously misunderstood. I have to read the rest of his books. By the way there is a thread called "Reading List" which you should contribute to if you like.
  • Re: Is there such thing as right and wrong?
     Reply #23 - November 04, 2009, 10:55 PM
    Quote
    Dialogues is well worth the read. It's in a three-way dialogue format. What other philosophy books have you read? I recently read "Beyond Good and Evil" and heard a lecture about Nietzsche. Fascinating person and seriously misunderstood. I have to read the rest of his books. By the way there is a thread called "Reading List" which you should contribute to if you like.

    I'm Currently reading Herbert Spencer's System of Synthetic Philosophy.  link
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