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 Topic: PMS vs Female leaders

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  • PMS vs Female leaders
     OP - October 08, 2009, 09:12 AM
    Interesting question for the ladies of this forum, and guys feel free to chip in if you can.  Wink

    Ok, now I'm not sure about the rest of you ladies, but I freely admit to having major PMS once a month.  I get tearful, moody, clumsy and in truth any decision I could make during this time could be negatively influenced by my PMS.

    It's not a guarantee that every month I will feel the same level, some months I am fine, others I am a total mess (haha on many levels Tongue), still though I would be lying for the sake of the feminist movement to say it didn't effect me in some way.

    When I was a muslim, although I felt huge rebellion at the explanations that I couldn't be a ruler based on this PMS thing, I could on some level make sense of what they were telling me.

    Sometimes I could accept it, and of course other times I would be livid at the idea that my gender was a cage.

    Do you get PMS?

    Do you think it negatively impacts the way you make decisions during this time?

    What are your thoughts on the whole female rulers vs PMS attitude of Islam?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #1 - October 08, 2009, 09:30 AM
    The problem with this notion is that if you apply it to political leadership then you must apply it to all forms of leadership. So women can't be managers, headteachers, ministers, doctors, judges etc. The Islamic idea is based on sexism not PMS. I doubt mo knew the details of PMS.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #2 - October 08, 2009, 09:32 AM
    Quote from: Bukhari vl.5, pg.136, Bukhari vl. 4 Page 97, Nisai vl. 8 Page 227, Tirmidhi vl. 5 Page 457
    A nation that has entrusted its affairs to a woman can never be successful.


    BS. Israel got on fine, and it's first ruler had titties. It hasn't rained fire and brimstone on Germany yet, and England got on fine with Queens before, going to war just like a man would Wink.

    PMS is just a modern justification for the above hadith. What of men's hormones? If a man has blue balls or someshit you think this would affect his judgment?
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #3 - October 08, 2009, 09:34 AM
    Quote from: pakman on October 08, 2009, 09:30 AM
    The problem with this notion is that if you apply it to political leadership then you must apply it to all forms of leadership. So women can't be managers, headteachers, ministers, doctors, judges etc.



    Oh well  Smiley
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #4 - October 08, 2009, 09:34 AM
    Quote from: pakman on October 08, 2009, 09:30 AM
    The problem with this notion is that if you apply it to political leadership then you must apply it to all forms of leadership. So women can't be managers, headteachers, ministers, doctors, judges etc. The Islamic idea is based on sexism not PMS. I doubt mo knew the details of PMS.


    Maybe he didn't know the symptoms, but to his mind he viewed women as "feeling, emotionally driven" creatures, and in all honesty the only time I can say I am purely emotional is during PMS time.

    Women are actually still viewed as more emotional than men, even in the west.  A woman who isn't emotional is a bitch according to both men and women.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #5 - October 08, 2009, 09:36 AM
    Quote from: awais on October 08, 2009, 09:32 AM
    BS. Israel got on fine, and it's first ruler had titties. It hasn't rained fire and brimstone on Germany yet, and England got on fine with Queens before, going to war just like a man would Wink.

    PMS is just a modern excuse. What of men's hormones? If a man has blue balls or someshit you think this would affect his judgment?


    Interesting, as a man how would you even know?  do you have some studies that disprove how I feel once a month?

    Do you have studies that explain how my hand eye co-ordination issues that crop up once a month, are all in my mind?

    I've had periods since I was 13, so please don't tell me that what I know for a fact that I feel, is just made up modern bullshit.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #6 - October 08, 2009, 09:37 AM
    He's just being PC Berbs, I reckon Wink
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #7 - October 08, 2009, 09:38 AM
    I mean a modern excuse for the hadith.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #8 - October 08, 2009, 09:41 AM
    Oh right haha I thought that was your personal opinion. Lmao  I'm pms'ing now, so I was about to start spitting bullets.  Cheesy
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #9 - October 08, 2009, 09:51 AM
    I just thought of the example of Bilqis, the Queen of Sheba, then I looked at the site where I c&p'ed that hadith from commented on it.

    http://www.al-inaam.com/library/fleadership.htm

    Also caused me to remember muslims favourite example of women being poor leaders was Aisha's Battle of the Camel. Roll Eyes

    You think Mo had some complex about women bossing him around after Khadijah? Wink
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #10 - October 08, 2009, 02:13 PM
    Quote from: awais on October 08, 2009, 09:51 AM
    You think Mo had some complex about women bossing him around after Khadijah? Wink

    Thats exactly what I think. 

    Ive seen the same thing happen with my brother, who loves playing the dominant role as a husband.  But cant help thinking that its because he was the shy type, who people always thought would be the one who would be dominated.
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  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #11 - October 08, 2009, 02:16 PM
    Well women do tend to be more emotional than men especially considering when they have PMS thus they will sometimes not make as good judgments, however I would not necessarily say this makes them less competent than men when it comes to making decisions as men also can have mood swings and what not.

    Women who are emotional are called bitches and men who have mood swings are pricks or dickheads.

    As for the hadith just mentioned well it does say 'never will a nation succeed with a woman as its leader'
    However Aisha is recorded to have led Muslim armies after the death of Muhammad.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #12 - October 08, 2009, 02:51 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on October 08, 2009, 02:16 PM
    As for the hadith just mentioned well it does say 'never will a nation succeed with a woman as its leader'
    However Aisha is recorded to have led Muslim armies after the death of Muhammad.

    Well that proves the hadith was right, Arabia is certainly not currently succeeding as a muslim nation  Wink 

    Havent read any posts about your boyfriend lately, are things settling down now?
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  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #13 - October 08, 2009, 06:36 PM

    Interesting idea is or should PMS in general be a factor in determining a womans ability as leader.

    I don't have PMS. I have a period of less then 3 days and wouldn't notice it at all if it wasn't for the discharge. I'm the kind of woman that women with PMS like to hate. 

    Anyhow, I think most women who have the determination to be in high stress leadership positions would find a way to rise to the occation.

    From my experience men and women are different on alot of levels. Does that make that one better at one thing then another? No just different.

    Lynna
    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #14 - October 08, 2009, 07:42 PM
    Quote from: Lynna on October 08, 2009, 06:36 PM
    From my experience men and women are different on alot of levels. Does that make that one better at one thing then another? No just different

    Perhaps, but your experience is based on existing cultural prejudices which may have cause of these differences.  I am yet to be convinced that if a girl is brought up as a boy, dressed like a boy, told she is a boy (as a child!), whether in this case any differences will be seen.

    I have seen many women who are more 'man' than women I know, and vice versa which points to a similar makeup.

    Or perhaps I am wrong, and the additonal y chromosome/testosterone vs xx chromosome and oestrogen makes all the difference.

    Maybe someone can enlighten me?


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  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #15 - October 08, 2009, 08:48 PM
    As much as men mostly dominates how games are played in this world--we're not without our own hormonal problems. Ladies deal with PMS and men deal with Testosterone levels. Men's Testosterone production starts to slow down from the age of twenty six and starts dropping significantly from the age of thirty. By the age of forty, many men are prescribed synthetic testosterone (anabolic steroids) to keep their testosterone levels at normal production. Low testosterone levels typically causes men to be depressed constantly, moody and also indifferent to many things. Not to mention, low testosterone levels causes a man to gain fat at a higher rate and building of strength and muscle mass is almost near impossible without testosterone. High levels of testosterone may cause a man to be victims of uncontrollable anger--especially those who are easily prone to anger issues.

    That being said, in my honest opinion, I think hormones can play a role in decision making, but this disadvantage is not only limited to women. Despite this however, there are still great leaders out there who are of both sexes. It all depends on how the responsibilities of leadership are handled.

    I partially agree with Pakman on his comment about Islam. I too think that Islam's attitude toward women has do with the sexist nature of men in the past. But, I think a lot of the undermining of women, especially when it comes to the subject of women and leadership, rose from the observation of PMS--it just wasn't properly understood and explained back then, thus is the reason why the Islamic culture (as well as cultures of all ancient religions) believe that women are just naturally incapable of leadership.
    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #16 - October 08, 2009, 09:08 PM
    Quote from: awais on October 08, 2009, 09:32 AM
    BS. Israel got on fine, and it's first ruler had titties.


    David Ben-Gurion was a tranny?
    fuck you
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #17 - October 08, 2009, 09:23 PM
    Quote from: Tommy on October 08, 2009, 08:48 PM
    But, I think a lot of the undermining of women, especially when it comes to the subject of women and leadership, rose from the observation of PMS--it just wasn't properly understood and explained back then, thus is the reason why the Islamic culture (as well as cultures of all ancient religions) believe that women are just naturally incapable of leadership.

    There is that, but you have to remember Mo's first wife Khadija ran a business empire and employed him.  I think he may have been using Islam to control his wife because she was wearing his trousers.

    He used Islam frequently like this e.g. special dispensation for seven wives instead of 4, having sex with his slaves etc.
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  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #18 - October 08, 2009, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on October 08, 2009, 09:36 AM
    Interesting, as a man how would you even know?  do you have some studies that disprove how I feel once a month?

    Do you have studies that explain how my hand eye co-ordination issues that crop up once a month, are all in my mind?

    I've had periods since I was 13, so please don't tell me that what I know for a fact that I feel, is just made up modern bullshit.

    i think he's saying that temporary hormonal imbalance is simply being used as an excuse for some women to be a wuss, not that it's imaginary

    and for any "i am a woman, so you have no idea how i feel" he can counter it with an "i am a man, so you have no idea how i feel either"

    and that might be true: for all you know maybe the dreaded feelings you have once a month are felt daily by many men but they might be brainwashed since childhood to hide them because they are considered a sign of failure ^_^
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #19 - October 09, 2009, 01:19 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on October 08, 2009, 09:12 AM
    Interesting question for the ladies of this forum, and guys feel free to chip in if you can.  Wink

    Ok, now I'm not sure about the rest of you ladies, but I freely admit to having major PMS once a month.  I get tearful, moody, clumsy and in truth any decision I could make during this time could be negatively influenced by my PMS.

    It's not a guarantee that every month I will feel the same level, some months I am fine, others I am a total mess (haha on many levels Tongue), still though I would be lying for the sake of the feminist movement to say it didn't effect me in some way.

    When I was a muslim, although I felt huge rebellion at the explanations that I couldn't be a ruler based on this PMS thing, I could on some level make sense of what they were telling me.

    Sometimes I could accept it, and of course other times I would be livid at the idea that my gender was a cage.

    Do you get PMS?

    Do you think it negatively impacts the way you make decisions during this time?

    What are your thoughts on the whole female rulers vs PMS attitude of Islam?


    There have been plenty of female rulers/leaders who did every bit as good a job as any man. I assume they had periods, at least for several decades, and it doesn't seem to have held them back at all. Draw your own conclusions.  Wink
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #20 - October 09, 2009, 04:22 AM
    My ex was (I daresay, is)  moodier than most women I've ever met.

    I don't really have PMS, though I may feel tired/down/unmotivated at that time of the month. Then again, I may feel tired/down/unmotivated at any time due to a countless number of factors.

    Anyway, I agree with most posters here. Moodiness may be a deterrent to reasonable decision-making, but having a vagina isn't.
    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #21 - October 09, 2009, 04:23 AM

    Oh, and I can totally relate to this.

    Quote from: BerberElla on October 08, 2009, 09:12 AM
    When I was a muslim, although I felt huge rebellion at the explanations that I couldn't be a ruler based on this PMS thing, I could on some level make sense of what they were telling me.

    Sometimes I could accept it, and of course other times I would be livid at the idea that my gender was a cage.

    "when you've got thousands of hadith/sunnah and a book like the Qur'an where abrogation is propagated by some; anyone with a grudge and some time on their hands can find something to confirm what ever they wish"- Kaiwai
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #22 - October 09, 2009, 04:34 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 08, 2009, 09:23 PM
    There is that, but you have to remember Mo's first wife Khadija ran a business empire and employed him.  I think he may have been using Islam to control his wife because she was wearing his trousers.

    He used Islam frequently like this e.g. special dispensation for seven wives instead of 4, having sex with his slaves etc.


    I don't think Mo devised Islam to control his wife's business--although that is a reasonable hypothesis. I personally think that Islam was just devised in order for Mo to take over people and just for personal power. I don't think he really had Khadija in mind all that much during the planning. I think Mo just discovered that his invention could also be used to his advantage to feed his lust for women--this happened much later.

    In regards to Khadija, I think her conversion to Islam merely came from her attraction for Mo--I don't think Islam it's self played any major role in her decision to become a Muslim. Khadija was much older than Mo anyways, and perhaps she was planning to turn over her business to him eventually. I say this because if you look at recent religious inventors like Joseph Smith and L.Ron Hubbard, their wives converted to their husband's religion as well. They certainly did not have any empire or high class businesses--at least not to my knowledge.

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #23 - October 09, 2009, 07:11 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on October 08, 2009, 09:12 AM
    Interesting question for the ladies of this forum, and guys feel free to chip in if you can.  Wink

    Ok, now I'm not sure about the rest of you ladies, but I freely admit to having major PMS once a month.  I get tearful, moody, clumsy and in truth any decision I could make during this time could be negatively influenced by my PMS.



    Then leaders who must have had male version of PMS would include:

    1- Hitler
    2- Mosilini
    3- Sadam
    4- etc etc
    5-
    ...
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #24 - October 09, 2009, 07:32 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on October 08, 2009, 09:08 PM
    David Ben-Gurion was a tranny?




    You didn't know? Later on they had the famous Arturo Goldstein (aka Golda Meyer).....it's an old Zionist tradition Smiley
    Ha Ha.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #25 - October 17, 2009, 04:19 AM
    Hi Islame,

    Interesting thought. What if a girl or boy was raised without them or anyone else knowing which they were.

    Quote from: IsLame on October 08, 2009, 07:42 PM
    Perhaps, but your experience is based on existing cultural prejudices which may have cause of these differences.  I am yet to be convinced that if a girl is brought up as a boy, dressed like a boy, told she is a boy (as a child!), whether in this case any differences will be seen.

    I have seen many women who are more 'man' than women I know, and vice versa which points to a similar makeup


    It seems I have a distant memory, during my teens, of reading a novel about just such a case. Actually I think it was about a group of children, both boys and girls, raised with out the normal cultural gender prejudices.  To bad the memory is too distant to remember any of the details.

    In reality I don't think such an experiment could not be carried out.  We are both our genetics and our culture.

    I think I was raised for the most part by liberal parents that didn't inflict to many gender boundaries.

    I'm much better at math and science then I am at languages. A variance from the traditionally held point of view.

    I'm a nurse now but my very first job I was the 11th woman hired by the state of California for freeway maintenance.  From a traditionally man's job to a traditionally woman's job.  But that is not what determines who I am and how I feel.

    Be that as it may be.

    I think woman and men are different form a basic biological stand point. There are differences in how women and men experience some illnesses such as heart disease.  Another good example of differences is the parts each play in procreation. The way body fat is stored on a woman compared to a man is different, can't be changed and still be healthy. This hoever has nothing to with superior and/or inferior. I think it just has to do with different.

    Do you have children?  Do you think your daughter could be a good national leader? do you encourage her to a traditioally male profession?

    until next time Lynna.

    If at first you succeed...try something harder.

    Failing isn't falling down. Failing is not getting back up again.
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #26 - October 17, 2009, 05:37 AM
    I think females should be leaders as they most of the time they are survivors. I read somewhere that in catatrophies, like earthquakes and famine, males die earlier, presumabley to continue raising the offsprings by breastfeeding or whatever. I need to look up a reference.

    Aren't the oldest human fossils, Lucy and the newest found Ardi both women? Huh?
    ...
  • Re: PMS vs Female leaders
     Reply #27 - October 17, 2009, 08:31 AM
    Your examples of differences are rooted around biological ones, which are less relevent to the point I was making.

    Quote from: Lynna on October 17, 2009, 04:19 AM
    Do you think your daughter could be a good national leader?


    Dont you think so Huh?   You must have heard of Margaret Thatcher and Indira Gandhi  ?

    What do you think?

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