Quran mentions that the Planets are 11

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- josephus
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #60 - April 23, 2013, 10:09 AM

Good grief

Unless I'm much mistaken, not even the most hard-core advocate of scientific miracles in the Quran asserts that Surah Yusuf is suggesting that Joseph's dream means there are literally 11 planets - it's an effing literary metaphor, understood as such within the narrative itself, based on the various versions of the story, with emphasis on the word STORY, as found in Genesis, The Book of Jubilees, The Testament of Joseph and elsewhere.

The 11 stars are Joseph's brothers - all eleven of them - acknowledging his sovereignty over them; as go the dreams of those blessed by God, so goes reality. It's a terrific poetic metaphor in the context of a great story, and it's one of the reasons why the narrative has had enduring popularity for at least 2,500 years.
- Tonyt
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #61 - April 23, 2013, 02:30 PM

Quote from: Infidel on October 09, 2009, 03:02 PM
As regarding the actual meaning of Kawkab, in contemporary Arabic(MSA) it refers to planets and NOT stars. Not sure about the meaning in Classical Arabic and if it was any different.

I don't think the ancients were always able to distinguish the difference from stars and planets as planets usually look identical to stars in the night sky.

Definitely the Greeks knew what planets were, and probably the Babylonians too as they were keen astronomers and astrologers. But we have to remember that these stories were originally Hebrew, not Arabic. The word "Kowkab" is quite an early Semitic word as it is the same in both Arabic (كوكب) and Hebrew (כּוֹכָב).

Whatever the word means today in Arabic is irrelevant, the earliest version of the story is from Hebrew, and there the word simply means star, which probably includes both planets and suns in other solar systems, because to the non-expert they look the same in the night sky.
- ibn Bilal
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #62 - April 23, 2013, 02:58 PM

The word kawkab in the Qur'an is interchangeable with the word najm. Both are understood to mean “star,” or more appropriately to the non-expert desert observer, twinkly things in the sky. In surat saffat, the word kawaakib (plural of kawkab) is used to describe the stars. “Inna zayyanna-samaa-addunyaa bi zinatinil-kawaakib.” “Verily, we have adorned the lowest heaven with the beauty of the stars.” The amount of ignorance of the universe on behalf of the author that is displayed in this verse and the verses that follow it are astonishing. Never did the author have any idea that planets and stars were two different things.
- UberSlave
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #63 - April 23, 2013, 03:19 PM

^Muslims would now say that the whole observable universe is the lowest heaven. So all the stars that you are seeing even the galaxies that are 13 billion light years away are all in the lowest heaven. Don't you see how vast Allah's creation is? Subhan-Allah, Subhan-Allah.
- TheDashingRabbit
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #64 - May 07, 2013, 01:49 AM

^

They don't realize that declaring the entire known universe as the lowest haven would imply that muhammad crossed that physically on a flying horse during his night journey which just makes the quranic narrative alot more absurd.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- ibn Bilal
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #65 - May 07, 2013, 02:07 AM

Quote from: UberSlave on April 23, 2013, 03:19 PM
^Muslims would now say that the whole observable universe is the lowest heaven. So all the stars that you are seeing even the galaxies that are 13 billion light years away are all in the lowest heaven. Don't you see how vast Allah's creation is? Subhan-Allah, Subhan-Allah.

This argument simply does not hold water when we consider how the seven heavens are discussed in the quran.

Surah Nuh:

15. See you not how Allah has created seven heavens, one above the other? 16. And he has made the moon a light in THEM and has made the sun a lamp?

He said the moon and the sun (which are practically equals when you think about it--sarcasm) are lights and lamps in the (plural) seven heavens. So either the Qur'an is asserting (as it seems to be doing) that the sun and the moon traverse all seven heavens or there is no need to single out the moon as a "light" in the universe. It's not. Nor is the sun much of a lamp when you compare it to the other stars in the "heavens." In fact, if the universe is indeed the first heaven, then the sun is extremely insignificant therein, and the moon is practically invisible.

sun-vs-other-stars.jpg (81.65 KB, 600x420 - viewed 576 times.)
- osmanthus
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #66 - May 07, 2013, 06:02 AM

The astronomy isn't all that impressive. Now if the Quran had mentioned that some of the stars were lamps like the Sun, but way bigger, that would have been interesting. Or, if it had mentioned that the light from the moon was only reflected sunlight. Or any one of umpteen other things.

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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #67 - May 07, 2013, 10:31 AM

According to Naik, the Qur'an does mention moonlight to be only reflected sunlight. In his video "Is Qur'an God's word", he quotes Surah Al-Furqan 25:61, which says

"Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a lamp (siraaj), and a moon which has reflected light."

But Yusuf Ali's translation of that surah says

"Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp, and a Moon giving light."

So, like almost all of the so-called scientific miracles in the quran, this looks like a clever reinterpretation. But even it's true that the Qu'ran does mention moonlight to be reflected sunlight, it's not necessarily miraculous knowledge. Aristotle had figured that out, almost a thousand years ago before islam, by observing lunar eclipses.
- ibn Bilal
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #68 - May 07, 2013, 01:06 PM

The quran says nothing about reflected light. It is a bold faced lie. Perhaps one of the most obvious lies sNaik has told. The word he translates is "muneer" which has nothing to do with reflected light. In fact, it is used in other places in the quran to describe the word siraj, which is a lamp. Lamps don't reflect light.
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #69 - May 07, 2013, 01:16 PM

Isn't muneer the root word for the name Munir? Munir means shining doesn't it, ergo not reflecting, actually shining; emitting light?
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #70 - May 07, 2013, 01:18 PM

Exactly. Muneer=Munir. Choice of spelling is the only difference. No one has ever argued it has anything to do with "reflected."
- UberSlave
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #71 - May 07, 2013, 04:35 PM

A long time ago I heard a muslim try to explain that human observation of the stars was unreliable, he started going off about metaphysical shit that I didn't pay any attention because it was all bollocks. Anyway, he was ultimately trying to say that the observable universe can be distorted by all manner of things, light hitting the back of the eye, how the flawed brain interprets the signals..... I think even jinns came into the equation.
I guess it's something that muslims have to do to try and make Islam fit in with the modern word.
- Rob
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Quran mentions that the Planets are 11
Reply #72 - May 07, 2013, 09:21 PM

^
You were lucky. Might have been even more tedious if he'd looked at this site beforehand
Read this and weep.
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ13.html

The premise is we have a young universe. The speed of light has slowed dramatically over the years.
"Historical Measurements. During the past 300 years, at least 164 separate measurements of the speed of light have been published. Sixteen different measurement techniques were used. Astronomer Barry Setterfield has studied these measurements, especially their precision and experimental errors.1 His results show that the speed of light has apparently decreased so rapidly that experimental error cannot explain it!"
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