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 Topic: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam

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  • Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     OP - October 09, 2009, 10:20 PM
    Hey guys,

    Could need some help from you ppl. I registered at a German board for Afghan expats or people of Afghan descent. Got myself into a discussion there, one of the topics is slavery in Islam. One person quoted a few ahadith about how well-treated slaves are in Islam and that it paved the way for abolishing slavery completely (lol):

    Quote
    During the battle of Badr the Prophet (sas) accepted ransoms from the mushrik prisoners of war and let them go, and the Messenger (sas) let many of the prisoners go for free, releasing them with no ransom. During the conquest of Makkah it was said to the people of Makkah: “Go, for you are free.”

    During the campaign of Banu’l-Mustaliq, the Messenger (sas) married a female prisoner from the defeated tribe so as to raise her status, as she was the daughter of one of their leaders, namely the Mother of the Believers Juwayriyah bint al-Haarith (sas). Then the Muslims let all of these prisoners go.

    It was narrated that Abu Dharr (ra) said: The Messenger of Allaah (sas) said: “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050).

    It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (ra) said: I heard Abu’l-Qaasim (sas) say: “Whoever accuses his slave when he is innocent of what he says will be flogged on the Day of Resurrection, unless he is as he said.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6858).

    ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers had a slave who would lead her in prayer. Indeed the Muslims have been commanded to hear and obey even if a slave is appointed in charge of their affairs.

    Ibn ‘Umar (ra) manumitted a slave of his, then he picked up a stick or something from the ground and said: There is no more reward in it than the equivalent of this, but I heard the Messenger of Allaah (sas) say: “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to manumit him.” Narrated by Muslim (1657).

    It was narrated that ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan tweaked the ear of a slave of his when he did something wrong, then he said to him after that: Come and tweak my ear in retaliation. The slave refused but he insisted, so he started to tweak it slightly, and he said to him: Do it strongly, for I cannot bear the punishment on the Day of Resurrection. The slave said: Like that, O my master? The Day that you fear I fear also.

    When ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (ra) walked among his slaves, no one could tell him apart from them, because he did not walk ahead of them, and he did not wear anything different from what they wore.

    A man entered upon Salmaan (ra) and found him making dough – and he was a governor. He said to him: O Abu ‘Abd-Allaah, what is this? He said: We have sent our servant on an errand and we do not want to give him two jobs at once.


    Could you find as many ahadith and verses related to slavery and their treatment and post them here, please? I will write a reply to them tomorrow.
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #1 - October 09, 2009, 11:05 PM
    I've done a word search for 'slave' on my blog, and this is what is had come up with, hope its ok ..

    Right to sex
    The Quran explicitly gave Muslim men the right to have sex with their female slaves:

    Quran 33:52"It is not permitted thee to take other wives hereafter, nor to change thy present wives for other women, though their beauty charm thee, except slaves whom thy right hand shall possess."

    In fact the prophet?s son Ibrahim, was born from Maria al-Qibtiyya, not one of his 7 wives but his slave.

    Maria was actually an Egyptian Coptic Christian who was a slave gift from Muqawqis, a Byzantine official, to the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the year 628.

    Racism
    (Ibn Hazm, Vol. 6, p. 469) "The master does not have the right to force the female slave to wed to an ugly black slave if she is beautiful and agile unless in case of utmost necessity"

    Rape

    Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319 (See also Quran 4:3 and 33:50) And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands as prisoners of war

    It rather shockingly shows that Muslims jihadists actually had sex with captured & enslaved women, whether married or not.

    In the following passage, Khumus is the war booty, a tax that is one-fifth of the spoils of war.

    Bukhari 5 :  59 ?Ali, Muhammad?s cousin and son-in-law, just finished a relaxing bath. Why? 

    Ali had taken a bath after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the war booty.
    Prophet?s response to the person who hated Ali for this sexual act?  Do you hate Ali for this? . . . Don?t hate him, for he deserves more than that from the war booty?

    Beating

    Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 7, #132
    The prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day."
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #2 - October 10, 2009, 02:21 AM
    Thanks very much Islame. I also searched for the word slave in Sahih Bukhari, found plenty of passages related to slavery, some of them do actually sound fair.

    But look at this one:

    Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:
    Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:
    A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.

     Cry
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #3 - October 10, 2009, 05:40 AM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 09, 2009, 10:20 PM
    Hey guys,
    One person quoted a few ahadith about how well-treated slaves are in Islam and that it paved the way for abolishing slavery completely (lol):


    So because there are a few 'good' hadiths concerning slaves that makes Islam divine? How could Islam pave the way to abolishing slavery when Islamic countries were the last of all nations to end slavery? And that was only with considerable pressure from Western nations.

    You can get some info from my page here:
    http://sites.google.com/site/islamicscripturesunveiled/Home/slavery
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #4 - October 10, 2009, 09:52 AM
    AG - your blog is an excellent resource - ever thought of getting it on YouTube (you could use a computerised voice using an anonymous account) to give it a greater audience?  If only to use it as an advertisement for your blog!

    I got 3000 views already http://www.youtube.com/ExMuslimUK#play/uploads, and my blog at best managed about 100 during its lifetime!
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #5 - October 10, 2009, 05:02 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on October 10, 2009, 05:40 AM
    You can get some info from my page here:
    http://sites.google.com/site/islamicscripturesunveiled/Home/slavery


    Thanks. I noticed that you didn't write anything about the following verse:

    24:33 And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His bounty. And such of your servants as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your slave-girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them, then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #6 - October 10, 2009, 05:26 PM
    Peace all,

    Perhaps you might be interested to weigh in on the discussion regarding the slavery commandments within the Torah (the thread labelled -- question for Lynna and History).

    Love 'n' Light,

    The T
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #7 - October 11, 2009, 07:23 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on October 10, 2009, 09:52 AM
    AG - your blog is an excellent resource - ever thought of getting it on YouTube (you could use a computerised voice using an anonymous account) to give it a greater audience?  If only to use it as an advertisement for your blog!

    I got 3000 views already http://www.youtube.com/ExMuslimUK#play/uploads, and my blog at best managed about 100 during its lifetime!


    I noticed your viewers growing, and your videos improving each time. Actually I don't have a problem doing videos, no need to computerise voice or anything, its just the time to do it, the confidence and the resources to make it look good.

    I was more thinking along the lines of putting it together as book and publishing it. But haven't ventured out to look for a publisher.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #8 - October 11, 2009, 07:49 AM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 10, 2009, 05:02 PM
    Thanks. I noticed that you didn't write anything about the following verse:

    24:33 And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His bounty. And such of your servants as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your slave-girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them, then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


    Well this is one of the better verses which does advise freedom for slaves if they are 'good and honest'. One would have to assume based on the tenets of the Qur'an that 'good and honest' would imply they had to be Muslim.

    I suppose if I had to include every verse about every topic I cover it would become too long and daunting for the reader. But I will look at including this one. Thanks

    The verse does go on to say don't force your slave girl into prostitution, but if you do, don't worry because Allah will forgive you. Also the reason for not forcing them into slavery has nothing to do with the dignity and rights of the slave but that the owner will gain good in this life. 

    Allah's standards are so endearing! He will forgive you for forcing your slave girl into prostitution, there's no blame for having sex with your slave - but worship an idol and he's off his rockers ready to have his messenger kill you and then have you burnt eternally.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #9 - October 11, 2009, 02:57 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on October 11, 2009, 07:49 AM
    Well this is one of the better verses which does advise freedom for slaves if they are 'good and honest'. One would have to assume based on the tenets of the Qur'an that 'good and honest' would imply they had to be Muslim.

    Yes, it's very likely that only good, believing slaves are meant with this verse. Slave masters or the rulers could make up their own rules anway and define what goodness is in a slave.

    Quote from: a.ghazali on October 11, 2009, 07:49 AM
    I suppose if I had to include every verse about every topic I cover it would become too long and daunting for the reader. But I will look at including this one. Thanks

    Well, there are at most 10 verses in the Qur'an that deal with slavery. None of them condemn the practice and even give permission to acquire women as war booty and have sex with them, regardless of whether they are married or not.
    You really should include this one, though, because it would only be fair.

    Quote from: a.ghazali on October 11, 2009, 07:49 AM
    The verse does go on to say don't force your slave girl into prostitution, but if you do, don't worry because Allah will forgive you. Also the reason for not forcing them into slavery has nothing to do with the dignity and rights of the slave but that the owner will gain good in this life.

    Yes, but it could also mean, that the slave girls will not be blamed.

    Quote from: a.ghazali on October 11, 2009, 07:49 AM
    Allah's standards are so endearing! He will forgive you for forcing your slave girl into prostitution, there's no blame for having sex with your slave - but worship an idol and he's off his rockers ready to have his messenger kill you and then have you burnt eternally.

    Exactly.  Cheesy
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #10 - October 11, 2009, 03:27 PM
    By the way, I created a document with ahadith from Sahih Bukhari, which contain the keywords "slave, captive, capture":

    http://salam.googlecode.com/svn/hadith/bukhari_slavery.html
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #11 - October 11, 2009, 05:44 PM
    Quote
    24:33 وليستعفف الذين لا يجدون نكاحا حتى يغنيهم الله من فضله والذين يبتغون الكتاب مما ملكت أيمانكم فكاتبوهم إن علمتم فيهم خيرا وآتوهم من مال الله الذي آتاكم ولا تكرهوا فتياتكم على البغاء إن أردن تحصنا لتبتغوا عرض الحياة الدنيا ومن يكرههن فإن الله من بعد إكراههن غفور رحيم

    24:33 WalyastaAAfifi alladhiina layadschiduuna nikahan hatta yughniyahumu Allahumin fadlihi waalladhiina yabtaghuuna alkitabamimma malakat aymanukum fakatibuuhum inAAalimtum fiihim khayran waatuuhum min mali Allahialladhii atakum wala tukrihuu fatayatikumAAala albigha-i in aradna tahassunanlitabtaghuu AAarada alhayati alddunyawaman yukrihhunna fa-inna Allaha min baAAdi ikrahihinnaghafuurun rahiimun

    24:33 And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, Lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful. (Pickthall)


    Could an Arabic speaker here elucidate this verse a bit more? Who is meant in the last sentence? Will the slave owner be forgiven or the slave who was forced to prostitution?
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #12 - October 11, 2009, 10:41 PM
    Hey guys, what do you think about this discussion?

    http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=2d8IJu

    Quote from: Eiyad
    ... As we explained earlier, Islam has given only two options with regard to prisoners of war: freeing with generosity or with ransom.


    Quote
    1: Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah,- their deeds will Allah render astray (from their mark).                               
    2: But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.                 
    3: This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.                                                         
    4: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.                               
    5: Soon will He guide them and improve their condition,                   
    6: And admit them to the Garden which He has announced for them.


    According to Ibn Kathir that verse was revealed in context with the Battle of Badr. In later battles, like the Battle of Khaybar, people were still taken captive and were enslaved. Muhammad took "Safiya bint Huyai", the chief mistress of the tribe, as his slave girl, freed and married her at the same time (her dowry was her manumission.) See: Sahih Bukhari 1:8:367

    Does anybody have more insight into this? How would you rebut this?
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #13 - October 12, 2009, 12:49 AM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 11, 2009, 03:27 PM
    By the way, I created a document with ahadith from Sahih Bukhari, which contain the keywords "slave, captive, capture":

    http://salam.googlecode.com/svn/hadith/bukhari_slavery.html


    Thanks for the resource Aziz, I have bookmarked it (I'm very much into slavery right now).

    Your site reminded me of one particular hadith which just blew my mind:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you." Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, "The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents.

    1. When a slave (lady) gives birth to her master.

    2. When the shepherds of black camels start boasting and competing with others in the construction of higher buildings. And the Hour is one of five things which nobody knows except Allah.

    The Prophet then recited: "Verily, with Allah (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour--." (31. 34) Then that man (Gabriel) left and the Prophet asked his companions to call him back, but they could not see him. Then the Prophet said, "That was Gabriel who came to teach the people their religion." Abu 'Abdullah said: He (the Prophet) considered all that as a part of faith.

    I guess you included this because of the first portent, which is that a slave gives birth to her master. What is your view of this first portent?

    Love and Light,

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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #14 - October 12, 2009, 01:47 AM
    I always interpreted it to mean mothers who wait on their spoiled ungrateful children's demands hand and foot.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #15 - October 12, 2009, 07:04 PM
    Quote from: The tailor on October 12, 2009, 12:49 AM
    Thanks for the resource Aziz, I have bookmarked it (I'm very much into slavery right now).

    You're welcome. Smiley

    So what do you think about slavery in Islam and slavery in the history of the religion? Do you think Allah (clearly) condemns and forbids it?

    Quote from: The tailor on October 12, 2009, 12:49 AM
    I guess you included this because of the first portent, which is that a slave gives birth to her master. What is your view of this first portent?

    I really don't know. Awais gave a possible interpretation, which is metaphorical. I think many Muslims would hate to think that it is meant literally, because then it would really mean that slavery will not be abolished until the end of the world. Or does it perhaps refer to non-Muslim slave women in non-Islamic cultures? Hm, western states were the first ones to abolish it, and then Muslim states followed due to international pressure.
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #16 - October 12, 2009, 07:09 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 11, 2009, 02:57 PM
    Well, there are at most 10 verses in the Qur'an that deal with slavery. None of them condemn the practice and even give permission to acquire women as war booty and have sex with them, regardless of whether they are married or not.
    You really should include this one, though, because it would only be fair.


    Aziz, I've updated the web page and included this verse with necessary comments. Please give feedback if you need. Thanks
     
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #17 - October 12, 2009, 07:38 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 11, 2009, 10:41 PM
    Hey guys, what do you think about this discussion?

    http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=2d8IJu

    According to Ibn Kathir that verse was revealed in context with the Battle of Badr. In later battles, like the Battle of Khaybar, people were still taken captive and were enslaved. Muhammad took "Safiya bint Huyai", the chief mistress of the tribe, as his slave girl, freed and married her at the same time (her dowry was her manumission.) See: Sahih Bukhari 1:8:367

    Does anybody have more insight into this? How would you rebut this?


    Qur'an 33:50 says that captives are lawful for sex. If they are not enslaved then how can that be?

    O Prophet! We have made lawful to you your wives and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war...

    Muhammad advises Dihya to take a slave girl from among the captives. How can it be for her to ransom her or free her? Muhammad himself took his choice of Safiya.

    Sahih Bukhari 8:367 - Dihya asked, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya. The Prophet said, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.'

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #18 - October 12, 2009, 09:27 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on October 12, 2009, 07:09 PM
    Aziz, I've updated the web page and included this verse with necessary comments. Please give feedback if you need. Thanks


    You wrote that Allah allows the prostitution of slaves, if they are willing to do that. I'm not really sure about this. First of all, zina is clearly prohibited in Islam. Furthermore, there are ahadith which mention that slaves who commit zina should be flogged a hundred times.

    Quote from: SB 8:82:823
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said, "If a lady slave commits illegal sexual intercourse and she is proved guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, then she should be flogged (fifty stripes) but she should not be admonished; and if she commits illegal sexual intercourse again, then she should be flogged again but should not be admonished; and if she commits illegal sexual intercourse for the third time, then she should be sold even for a hair rope."


    You write:
    Quote
    Well of course children born of slaves were automatically slaves and property of the owner of the slave.


    Do you have proof of this? I'd like to know for certain myself.
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #19 - October 13, 2009, 04:06 PM
    Thanks a lot guys, for not helping me. :(

    To me it looks like ppl here like to say how disgusted they are about slavery in Islam, they quote a few verses and a few hadiths and give their opinion, but when it comes to looking deeper into the issue in a scholarly and neutral manner taking the tafsirs and hadiths into account nobody seems to have a fucking clue. Now, I don't suggest and certainly don't expect that this wart of Islam will suddenly disappear if you dig deeper into the texts, but when I'm in a debate with someone else who quotes good stuff at me, I've got a fucking difficult time to rebut it.

    Sorry, I'm a little bit frustrated at the moment.

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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #20 - October 13, 2009, 04:11 PM
    Hey Aziz, I sent you some stuff at the beginning of the thread?
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #21 - October 13, 2009, 04:19 PM
    I know, and thank you for that. But that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

    Read this:

    Quote from: Hadith Qudsi 21
    On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said that Allah the Almighty said:

    There are three (1) whose adversary I shall be on the Day of Resurrection: a man who has given his word by Me and has broken it; a man who has sold a free man (2) and has consumed the price; and a man who has hired a workman, has exacted his due in full from him and has not given him his wage.

    (1) i.e. types of men.

    (2) i.e. a man who has made a slave of another and has sold him.

    It was related by al-Bukhari (also by Ibn Majah and Ahmad ibn Hanbal).

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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #22 - October 13, 2009, 04:31 PM
    Are there any classical scholars or early caliphs who didn't think that slavery is a huge injustice? Were there any who allowed it?

    Umar allegedly used to flog slave owners who refused to free their slaves when they desired it. But I couldn't find anything in Sahih Bukhari. Maybe it's in another collection.

    Were there any warfares and conquests after the death of Muhammad, where Muslims enslaved the defeated people?

    I need stuff like that...
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #23 - October 13, 2009, 07:40 PM

    What about the Devshirme ?

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Devshirme

    Quote
    Devshirme is from Turkish, meaning "gathering". Devshirme was a system that took place under the Ottoman Empire. The system of devshirme was introduced under Sultan Murad 2 in the 1420's. The sultan would collect Christian boys from the Balkans and turn them into his slaves. Usually the boys were around the ages of 8 or 10 but sometimes even as old as 20. The purpose of this was to ensure that the sultan would have loyal troops and civil servants. The devshirme collection was performed by a higher Janissary officer (who often would themselves be of devshirme origin.) Normally around the age of 20, when they were finished training, the boys would be placed in the army or civil service and could become landowners. A few would become governors or viziers after receiving an education in the palace school. The devshirme never were granted total freedom.

     
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #24 - October 13, 2009, 08:01 PM
    Yeah, that kind of material is good. Thanks.

    Anything from earlier history close to Muhammad's time?

    Quotes from caliphs or important scholars that show how slavery was more or less accepted?
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #25 - October 13, 2009, 08:17 PM
    Tried to google any hadith on the children of slaves being slaves, but can't find anything - so perhaps there are none.  Nevertheless it does seem to be commonly accepted - e.g. in this apologetic from http://www.twf.org/Library/Slavery.html
    (one can tell it is an apologetic because it says that eventually once the world has been entirely converted to Islam (and the correct sort thereof), there will be noone left to enslave).  Ms. Schimmel also leaves out one of the sources of slaves - Dhimmis who were unable to pay the Jizya.

    Annemarie Schimmel, Islam: An Introduction
    Slavery was not abolished by the Koran, but believers are constantly admonished to treat their slaves well. In case of illness a slave has to be looked after and well cared for. To manumit [free] a slave is higly meritorious; the slave can ransom himself by paying some of the money he has earned while conducting his own business. Only children of slaves or non-Muslim prisoners of war can become slaves, never a freeborn Muslim; therefore slavery is theoretically doomed to disappear with the expansion of Islam. The entire history of Islam proves that slaves could occupy any office, and many former military slaves, usually recruited from among the Central Asian Turks, became military leaders and often even rulers as in eastern Iran, India (the Slave Dynasty of Delhi), and medieval Egypt (the Mamluks). Eunuchs too served in important capacities, not only as the guardians of the women's quarters, but also in high administrative and military positions. -- p. 67

    I suspect you'll find as much as is commonly available on the answering islam website - since they have the energy to go into this stuff: http://answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm

    EDIT: answering islam does provide this clarification:
    "The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34)"
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #26 - October 13, 2009, 09:23 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 12, 2009, 09:27 PM
    Do you have proof of this? I'd like to know for certain myself.


    This is common practice in all incidences of slavery. This was one of the ways the slave pool grew. What was the child of a slave supposed to do, but continue in the profession of their parents. It happened in western slavery and was also the practice in islamic slavery.

    here is a comment on Brandeis University Boston website:

    Islamic law devotes special attention to regulating the practice of slave marriage and concubinage, in order to determine the paternity and/or ownership of children born to a female slave. A man cannot simultaneously own and be married to the same female slave. The male owner of a female slave can either marry her off to a different man, thus renouncing his own sexual access to her, or he may take her as his own concubine, using her sexually himself. Both situations have a specific effect on the status of any children she bears. When female slaves are married off, any children born from the marriage are slaves belonging to the mother?s owner, though legal paternity is established for her husband. When a master takes his own female slave as a concubine, by contrast, any children she bears are free and legally the children of her owner, with the same status as any children born to him in a legal marriage to a free wife. The slave who bears her master?s child becomes an umm walad (literally, mother of a child), gaining certain protections. Most importantly, she cannot be sold and she is automatically freed upon her master?s death.

    http://www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/Pages/islamandslavery.html
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #27 - October 13, 2009, 09:31 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 12, 2009, 09:27 PM
    You wrote that Allah allows the prostitution of slaves, if they are willing to do that. I'm not really sure about this. First of all, zina is clearly prohibited in Islam. Furthermore, there are ahadith which mention that slaves who commit zina should be flogged a hundred times.


    Prostitution of Muslim women was not allowed, but slaves or even non Muslims was allowed.

    A man can go unto his slave whenever he wants. She does not have to be married. Women captured in battle was used the very night. The Muslims were anxious as to whether the should use coitus interuptus but Muhammad said no go ahead because a child will be born regardless because it is Allah who will its.

    The verse in question says Not to 'Force' your slave girls into prostitution if the wish to remain chaste.

    Obviously this means if they are not concerned about their chastity then its OK to be a pimp for them. But do not force them against their will.


    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #28 - October 13, 2009, 09:38 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on October 11, 2009, 05:44 PM
    Could an Arabic speaker here elucidate this verse a bit more? Who is meant in the last sentence? Will the slave owner be forgiven or the slave who was forced to prostitution?


    Quote
    And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, Lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful. (Pickthall)


    When I first read this I thought it would be the Slave owner who would be forgiven. The reason being, it is the slave owner who is the only one here who needs forgiving. The poor slave is the victim. Why should the victim who is being used and abused need to be forgiven?

    It is the slave owner who is doing the forcing and therefore the one who is wrong and would need forgiving. Not the slave.

    However the way it is written seems to imply the 'them' he is referring to could be the slave. Therefore Allah is incriminating the poor slave with the crime also which is bad. They should not be liable and should not really need forgiving.
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  • Re: Hadiths and Verses about Slavery in Islam
     Reply #29 - October 13, 2009, 10:12 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on October 13, 2009, 09:38 PM
    It is the slave owner who is doing the forcing and therefore the one who is wrong and would need forgiving. Not the slave.


    Or it could just mean, that they don't have to worry as they will be forgiven and the sin will be upon the person who forced them. I think Ibn Kathir writes something to that effect in his tafsir.

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