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 Topic: Debates and arguments in dream.

 (Read 2500 times)
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  • Debates and arguments in dream.
     OP - October 12, 2009, 09:41 AM

    Guys,

    Over the past year or so since my apostasy, I've had many dreams about getting into debates and arguments about religion and God. I have these dream at least 2-3 times a week and is with people I know such as family and friends. The format of the dream is generally the same throughout. With the theist going first and trying to question my motives and why I have apostated. I don't remember the dream in detail, but can usually make out that it erupts into an argument. Have you ever experienced anything like this?
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #1 - October 12, 2009, 09:47 AM

    You could be getting that dream, because you are watching religious debates - some say our dreams are just the brains way of filing away our thoughts for the day.

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  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #2 - October 12, 2009, 09:48 AM

    The one I keep getting is putting off studying for my exams till the last day, and then trying to cram it all in on the last day.  After the exam I curse myself for putting myself in that position.

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  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #3 - October 12, 2009, 09:54 AM

    Your dreams are rather intellectual in comparison to mine.

    Last night I dreamt about killing my stepfather-I also dreamt about going to an Indian restaurant and getting thrown out for saying "chapati" wrong.

    I congratulate you on your superior dreams

    I must however agree with my colleague Islame-dreams are meaningless (on a "spiritual level") and a reflection of our own thoughts and sub-consciences-so you must be watching and dwelling on religious debates. Similarly, I constantly dwell on how much I hate my stepfather and I never have been able to pronounce "chapati" right-last night I was thinking about this.


    "I am ready to make my confession. I ask for no forgiveness father, for I have not sinned. I have only done what I needed to do to survive. I did not ask for the life that I was given, but it was given nonetheless-and with it, I did my best"
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #4 - October 12, 2009, 09:58 AM

    Your dreams are rather intellectual in comparison to mine.

    Last night I dreamt about killing my stepfather-I also dreamt about going to an Indian restaurant and getting thrown out for saying "chapati" wrong.

    I congratulate you on your superior dreams

    I must however agree with my colleague Islame-dreams are meaningless (on a "spiritual level") and a reflection of our own thoughts and sub-consciences-so you must be watching and dwelling on religious debates. Similarly, I constantly dwell on how much I hate my stepfather and I never have been able to pronounce "chapati" right-last night I was thinking about this.




    Agreed, I don't see the dreams as having any spiritual basis whatsoever, what I do find strange though is that the dream never reaches a conclusion and just flares up into an argument.
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #5 - October 12, 2009, 10:12 AM

    No, never about debating religion, but I have had a dream in which mohammed and my ex husband were trying to kill me with swords, chasing me across the desert trying to chop my head off.  Cheesy

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #6 - October 12, 2009, 10:18 AM

    No, never about debating religion, but I have had a dream in which mohammed and my ex husband were trying to kill me with swords, chasing me across the desert trying to chop my head off.  Cheesy


    Wow! I'm interested in what Mo looked like. I have heard people say that they have seen a vision of Mo in their dreams. Apparantly there is a hadith in which if someone sees him in a dream, then it's a true vision because satan can't immitate him.

    http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=408

    Quote
    Seeing the Prophet (saw) in a Dream
    Abu Ameenah Bilaal Philips
    Article ID: 408 | 7247 Reads
     

    Seeing the Prophet (pbuh) in a dream is a blessing from Allah because it is a true dream.


    Abu Huraira (ra) narrates: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Whoever has seen me in a dream, has in fact seen me, for Satan does not appear in my form" (Sahih Muslim, vol. 4 p 1225 no 5635)


    This is an area of visions which has, to some degree, been a source of confusion and trials among muslims. People claim to have seen the Prophet (pbuh) and to have received special guidance from him. Some claim their visions were in dreams while others claim to have actually seen him in a waking state. Those who make such claims are usually revered by the masses. Following such claims, they often introduce a variety of religious innovations and attribute them to the Prophets (pbuh) instructions in their dreams. The basis of these claims rests in the aforementioned hadith. There is no doubt that this hadith is authentic and reliable, and thus cannot be denied or distrusted; but there are, however, some points which should be noted concerning its meaning:


    (a) The hadith indicates that Satan can enter the dreams of human beings in various forms and invite them to misguidance.


    (b) The hadith states that Satan cannot take the actual form or appearance of the Prophet (pbuh)


    (c) The hadith also confirms the fact that the Prophets (pbuh) form may be seen in dreams


    Since the Prophet (pbuh) made this statement about dreams to his companions, who were familiar with his appearance, it means that if one who knows EXACTLY WHAT THE PROPHET (PBUH) LOOKS LIKE, sees something fitting that description in a dream, he can be sure that Allah has blessed him with a vision of the Prophet (pbuh) [Imaam an Nawawee quotes al-Qaadee expressing this opinion. See Sahih Muslim Sharh an Nawawee vol. 8 p30].


    After quoting the hadith on seeing the Prophet (pbuh) in a dream, Ibn Seereen was reported in Sahih al Bukhari as saying: "Only if he sees the Prophet (pbuh) in his actual form" [Bukhari vol.. 9 p104 no 122, Abu Dawood vol. 3 p 1396]


    It was also reported that when someone told Ibn Seereen that he saw the Prophet (pbuh) in a dream, he would ask the person to describe whom he saw. If the person mentioned characteristics known to Ibn Seereen, he would tell him that he had not seen the Prophet (pbuh) [Fath al Baaree vol. 12 p400].


    Kulayb also reported that once he told Ibn Abbas that he had seen the Prophet (pbuh) in a dream and Ibn Abbas asked him to describe whom he saw. When he mentioned that the figure looked like al Hasan ibn Alee, Ibn Abbas told him that he had in fact seen the Prophet (pbuh) [Fath al Baaree vol. 12 p400]


    One of the Quranic transcribers, Yazeed al Faarisee, related that he saw the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) in a dream during the era of Ibn Abbas and informed him. Ibn Abbas said, "Allahs Messenger (pbuh) used to say, 'Satan is unable to imitate my form, so whoever dreamt that they saw me, actually saw me'. Can you describe the person that you saw?" Yazeed replied, "Yes. I saw a man of medium height, of light brown hair, with a nice laugh, black eyes, a nicely rounded face. His beard filled from here to here (from one cheek to another) and almost filled his neck" [at this point the haidth narrator, Awf, interjected that he could not remember the other characteristics Yazeed mentioned]. Ibn Abbas said, "If you saw him while you were awake you wouldn't have been able to describe him better!" [al-Fath ar-Rabbaanee bol 17, p 225, nt1]


    Allah has denied Satan the ability of taking the actual form of the Prophet (pbuh). However it is possible for Satan to appear in the dreams of those unfamiliar with the Prophets (pbuh) appearance, and claim that he is Allahs messenger. [The narration of Ibn Abee Aasim from Aboo Huraira that the Prophet (pbuh) said, 'Whoever sees me in a dream has seen me, for I may be seen in every form' is not authentic according to Ibn Hajar - see fath al-baarree vol. 12 p400]. He may then prescribe religious innovations for the dreamer or inform him that he is the Mahdee (the awaited reformer) or even Prophet Jesus, who is to return in the last days.


    The number of individuals who have started religious innovations or made such claims based on dreams, are countless. People are particularly inclined to accept such claims because of their misunderstanding of the above mentioned hadith.


    Since the sharia (Islamic law) is complete, the claim that the Prophet (pbuh) has come in dreams with new additions must be false. Such a claim implies one of two things:


    (1) Either the Prophet (pbuh) did not fulfil his mission in his lifetime, or


    (2) Allah was not aware of the future of the ummah, and thus did not prescribe the necessary injunctions during the Prophets (pbuh) lifetime.


    Both of these implications are expressions of disbelief which contradict the basic principles of Islam, i.e. the Prophet (pbuh) fulfilled his mission in his lifetime and Allah knows the future.


    [A note from me : Islamic law has 2 sections. Those matters which we take from the Prophet (pbuh) e.g. prayer - we know how he did it so we emulate it. And those matters which did not exist at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) e.g. internet usage. For this we use Islamic principles to determine what is and what isn't acceptable e.g. can visit muslim websites cannot visit playboy website]


    As for seeing the Prophet (pbuh) in the waking state, such a claim may find support in the following narration of the hadith on seeing the Prophet (pbuh) in a dream:


    Abu Huraira stated that he heard the Prophet (pbuh) say, "Whoever sees me in a dream will see me when awake, and Satan cannot imitate me in form" [Bukhari vol. 9 p 104 no 122]. Ibn Hajar and other scholars said 'will see me when awake' means that the one who saw the Prophet (pbuh) in a dream will see the interpretation of his dream come true because it was a true dream. [Fath al-Baaree vol. 12 p400].


    An Nawawee stated [in Sharh an Nawawee vol. 8 p30] that it meant either:


    (1) The people of his time would see him. The hadith would then mean 'Whoever saw him in a dream among those who were unable to make the migration (hijrah) to Madeenah, would be blessed by Allah with migration to Madeenah. Then he would see the Prophet (pbuh) with his own eyes,"


    (2) He would see the fulfilment of his dream in the waking state, in the next life, or


    (3) He would have a special opportunity to see the Prophet (pbuh) in the next life and benefit from his intercession


    Futhermore, in other authentic narrations of this hadith,, the Prophet (pbuh) was reported to have said, "(it will be) as if he saw me when awake" [Muslim vol. 4 p1225 no 5636]. This addition emphasises that just as one who sees him while awake, would indeed have seen him, similarly one who sees him during sleep has really seen him.


    Any visions of the Prophet (pbuh) in the waking state would no doubt be Satanic appartitions, regardless of the outcome. During the Prophets (pbuh) miraculous journey to Jerusalem and into the heavens, Allah did show him a number of the former Prophets and Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) communicated with them. Those who claim to see the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) in the waking state, in fact, attempt to elevate themselves to his level, since none of the companions or the early generation of the righteous scholars made such claims for themselves. And the Prophet (pbuh) dubbed them the best of generations.


    Any innovations in the religion of Islam, whether based on visions of the Prophet (pbuh) or otherwise are totally unacceptable according to the many statements of the Prophet (pbuh) prohibiting them. For example, Aisha reported that Allahs Messenger (pbuh) said, 'Whoever innovates in this affair of ours (i.e. Islam) something not belonging to it, will have it rejected' [Bukhari vol. 3 p.535 no 861, Muslim vol. 3 p.931 no 4266]

  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #7 - October 12, 2009, 10:53 AM

    Wow! I'm interested in what Mo looked like. I have heard people say that they have seen a vision of Mo in their dreams. Apparantly there is a hadith in which if someone sees him in a dream, then it's a true vision because satan can't immitate him.

    http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=408



    Well in my dream he had a black beard, dark eyes, dark hair that was shoulder length and kind of shiny.  He was wearing typical arab clothes.  I know that hadith aswell, haha I made the same connection once I woke up in a sweat too.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #8 - October 12, 2009, 10:56 AM

    Well in my dream he had a black beard, dark eyes, dark hair that was shoulder length and kind of shiny.  He was wearing typical arab clothes.  I know that hadith aswell, haha I made the same connection once I woke up in a sweat too.


    The question I would pose to the muslims is, whether or not they can connect the dots? If say we got 5-6 people who all saw the vision of Mo in a dream and can remember what he looked like, would they be able to draw that image on a paper and then compare the sketches to see if the individual drawings look similar? Now that's a thought!
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #9 - October 12, 2009, 11:10 AM

    No, never about debating religion, but I have had a dream in which mohammed and my ex husband were trying to kill me with swords, chasing me across the desert trying to chop my head off.  Cheesy

    Do the Indiana Jones shit on them.  dance

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #10 - October 12, 2009, 11:45 AM

    The question I would pose to the muslims is, whether or not they can connect the dots? If say we got 5-6 people who all saw the vision of Mo in a dream and can remember what he looked like, would they be able to draw that image on a paper and then compare the sketches to see if the individual drawings look similar? Now that's a thought!


    I well I should presume they would all be similar as virtually everybody perceives Muhammad as being a dark haired bearded Arab.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #11 - October 12, 2009, 12:23 PM

    Yeah, infact I believe my dream image of him was simply influenced by the descriptions of him I had grown up with.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #12 - October 12, 2009, 02:29 PM

    That's really interesting Omar - I get those all the time but as day dreams. Gives me a chance to rehearse my arguments.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #13 - October 12, 2009, 07:16 PM

    The question I would pose to the muslims is, whether or not they can connect the dots? If say we got 5-6 people who all saw the vision of Mo in a dream and can remember what he looked like, would they be able to draw that image on a paper and then compare the sketches to see if the individual drawings look similar? Now that's a thought!


    Haraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #14 - October 12, 2009, 08:08 PM

    I've had these dreams a couple of times when I am getting really exasperated talking about Islam with people and they are not getting me.

    I also had a dream where I was in a fight and I got stabbed, and when I got stabbed I started saying shahadah and people around me were saying "its too late now". Anyone else have these sorts of dreams?

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #15 - October 13, 2009, 02:33 AM

    The one I keep getting is putting off studying for my exams till the last day, and then trying to cram it all in on the last day.  After the exam I curse myself for putting myself in that position.

    And that was just a dream? You kidding, right?

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Debates and arguments in dream.
     Reply #16 - October 13, 2009, 08:23 AM

    Its a recurring dream, but also happened in real life..

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