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Theme Changer

 Topic: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK

 (Read 8976 times)
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  • Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     OP - October 13, 2009, 06:44 PM

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/13/geert-wilders-wins-appeal-ban-uk

    Tribunal rejects claim that far-right Dutch politician's presence coud 'lead to inter-faith violence'

    The far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders intends to travel to London next week after an immigration tribunal ruling overturned a ban on visiting Britain.

    The Home Office said it was disappointed after the tribunal rejected its claim that his presence could "inflame community tensions and lead to inter-faith violence".

    The Freedom party leader immediately announced his intention to meet Ukip's Lord Pearson of Rannoch to discuss a showing of his anti-Islamic film Fitna later this month in the House of Lords.

    Judge CMG Ockelton, who chaired the tribunal, said that Wilders's opinions were expressed strongly and in a way that was bound to cause offence but that the right of freedom of expression was important in a democratic society.

    "Substantial evidence of actual harm would be needed before it would be proper for a government to prevent the expression and discussion of matters that might form the opinions of legislators, policy makers and voters," he said.

    The ruling said there had been no evidence of public order problems or damage to community relations as a result of a previous visit by Wilders to Britain.

    "It was more important to allow free speech than to take restrictive action speculatively," said Ockelton.

    The judgment goes further, saying that even if there were evidence that Wilders posed a threat to public order it would still not have been necessary to ban him because the police would have been able to ensure no disorder took place and remove him if there was trouble.

    The decision to ban Wilders was taken under regulations introduced in 2006 which allow the exclusion of those who represent "a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society".

    Wilders, who faces trial in the Netherlands for discrimination and inciting hatred, was turned back at Heathrow in February when the then home secretary, Jacqui Smith, banned him from entering Britain. He had been coming for a screening in the Lords of his film which calls the Qur'an a "fascist book". Smith said his presence had the potential to "threaten community harmony and therefore public safety".

    Wilders said the ruling was a victory for freedom of expression and claimed Smith's decision had been politically motivated.

    The politician was represented in the case by a British Muslim barrister, Arfan Khan, and the costs of just under ?10,000 were funded by the Birkenhead Society, which "encourages free speech" and marks British Empire Memorial Day.

    The Home Office said it would decide whether to appeal in due course.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #1 - October 13, 2009, 07:56 PM

    They now have to allow Moussawi as well.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #2 - October 14, 2009, 07:49 PM

    Geert Wilders is an EU citizen.  Mousawi isn't.

    Geert Wilders shouldn't have been banned from entering Britain in the first place.

    .
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #3 - October 14, 2009, 08:08 PM

    What I was saying was when Douglas Murray and the Centre for Social Cohesion succesfully got Moussawi banned, they were critical of him being allowed in the country whereas Wilders had been banned weeks before.

    Now Wilders' ban has been lifted, so should his. It was just a tongue in cheek comment referring to this.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #4 - October 14, 2009, 08:12 PM

    It was stupid to ban Wilders to begin with.  I think politicians fail to take into account that the Internet exists when they make dumb decisions like that.  Wilders film was all over You Tube and Live Leak at the time, so whether or not he physically set foot in the UK was irrelevant to how much muslim opinion would be inflamed.  It was just a way for the Home Secretary to pretend she was doing something useful when she was actually doing bugger all, (apart from fleecing the tax payer).

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #5 - October 14, 2009, 08:23 PM

    Cant wait till he gets here.. lets hope CEMB welcome him and get some press coverage  Afro

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  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #6 - October 14, 2009, 11:17 PM

    Ok, this is fine on one condition. He should be made to change his hairstyle before travelling abroad. Kthnx.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #7 - October 15, 2009, 12:25 AM

    Cant wait till he gets here.. lets hope CEMB welcome him and get some press coverage  Afro


    Great idea, IsLame.

    fuck you
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #8 - October 15, 2009, 04:37 PM

    I hope the Council of Ex Muslims do not welcome him. His views go against the Council's position; "against Political Islam, not Muslims".

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #9 - October 15, 2009, 05:23 PM

    I hope the Council of Ex Muslims do not welcome him. His views go against the Council's position; "against Political Islam, not Muslims".

    I hope that as well. He's a hotly disputed man, I don't think it would be wise to associate with him.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #10 - October 15, 2009, 05:46 PM

    Geert Wilders shouldn't have been banned from entering Britain in the first place.




    It's even more absurd when you consider that Richard Pryor was allowed to come and go as he pleased.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #11 - October 15, 2009, 05:49 PM

    What's wrong with Richard Pryor?

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #12 - October 15, 2009, 06:28 PM

    He's dead Smiley


    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #13 - October 15, 2009, 06:43 PM

    I don't think he's that bad. Muslims are just so sensitive about their faith that they think anyone who criticises it is being racist and Islamophobic. One should be free to attack any set of ideas or beliefs. The line should be drawn at inciting violence or hatred against a set of people.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #14 - October 15, 2009, 06:50 PM

    He doesn't just attack ideas or beliefs though. He is a nasty piece of work. Regarding Muslims, he has been quoted as saying "there is a battle going on and we have to defend ourselves". If Ahmedinejad had said the same thing regarding Jews, everyone would be outraged at the crazy anti semite. He refers to Islam as a Trojan Horse in Europe, he advocates paying all settled Muslims to leave the Netherlands, and even advocated a tax on a tax on wearing a headscarf.

    He is not anti-Islam, he is anti Muslim.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #15 - October 15, 2009, 06:56 PM

    In that case I retract my supportive remarks about him and declare him a dickhead.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #16 - October 15, 2009, 10:06 PM

     grin12 Yup, that's about the size of it. He does say some things that make sense, but they're hidden among a stack of crap.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #17 - October 15, 2009, 10:19 PM

    I hope the Council of Ex Muslims do not welcome him. His views go against the Council's position; "against Political Islam, not Muslims".


    Well I think (and I hope) IsLame meant "welcoming him" in a looser sense. As in maybe welcoming the idea that he should be allowed to speak his mind, but protesting what he's actually saying. Support for free speech while denouncing the speaker sort of thing. I think the main point he was trying to make is that the CEMB should publicly comment on the situation in some manner to maximize publicity for CEMB. But I'm not a member, so not my call.

    fuck you
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #18 - October 15, 2009, 10:34 PM

    Whilst I agree with some of the things Wilders says he goes too far when he talks about repatriation.

    He is a symbol of how things can go wrong, and I think we could usefully present ourselves as an objective  mediator in the dialogue between these 2 groups of extremists (wilders et al) and the radical muslims.  At the same time get some media coverage of the organisation and our views that Islam should be secularised, and most importantly show other muslims who might be thinking of leaving Islam that we exist!

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #19 - October 15, 2009, 10:53 PM

    Yeah, I kinda figured you were talking along those lines and it makes sense to me. I found this site quite by accident, and before I did, I did not even realize there was any organization of moderate ex-Muslims out there, which intrigued me, as before that the only voices I heard were one of three-- (1) The FFI/LGF anti-Muslim/rabid-pro-Zionist extremist types, (2) the Islamic extremist types, and (3) the "Islam is peace" hippy-dippy uncritical apologist types. Was really cool to find out there was an organization in the Western world and internet forum pushing a fourth option-- and I really think more people need to hear that message.

    fuck you
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #20 - October 16, 2009, 04:29 AM

    The CEMB should stick a spanner in the works whenever possible.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #21 - October 16, 2009, 06:41 AM

    Whilst I agree with some of the things Wilders says he goes too far when he talks about repatriation.

    He is a symbol of how things can go wrong, and I think we could usefully present ourselves as an objective  mediator in the dialogue between these 2 groups of extremists (wilders et al) and the radical muslims.  At the same time get some media coverage of the organisation and our views that Islam should be secularised, and most importantly show other muslims who might be thinking of leaving Islam that we exist!



    So what's it gonna be, a meet'n'greet at the airport?

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #22 - October 16, 2009, 08:45 AM

    Yep, get snapped with Wilders with a banner saying 'its time for a dialogue'

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #23 - October 16, 2009, 08:46 AM

    I bet you don't - you should tho, more effective than another youtube vid.

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #24 - October 16, 2009, 09:13 AM

    Glad you agree with my point

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #25 - October 16, 2009, 05:24 PM

    What I was saying was when Douglas Murray and the Centre for Social Cohesion succesfully got Moussawi banned, they were critical of him being allowed in the country whereas Wilders had been banned weeks before.

    Now Wilders' ban has been lifted, so should his. It was just a tongue in cheek comment referring to this.


    Though ideally freedom of speech should be absolute, since we have decided to restrict it to some people, I believe there's a quite a difference b/n Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Indoctrination. Moussavi gets the guise of religion to convey his ideas while Wilders would remain more or less a right-wing politician.

    Wilders is 'just another politician' while Moussavi gets a platorm that is considered respectful by many people, where any crazy idea goes, and that is protected by the state under the name of religious freedom, a privilege which he abused.

    I can't make up my mind on this, but I'm in more favor of letting in Wilders to Moussavi. At least some 'dialogue' should be possible with him.

    But Zakir Naik should be definitely banned. Wink


    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #26 - October 16, 2009, 07:58 PM

    Quote
    Controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders has hailed his arrival in the UK as a "victory for freedom of speech".

    He told a packed press conference in Westminster he was "proud of the UK asylum and immigration tribunal" for overturning the ban.

    And he repeated his criticism of Muslim ideology and defended his call for the Koran to be banned in Holland.

    His press conference was moved inside amid angry scenes, with demonstrators chanting "Wilders go to hell".

    About 40 Muslim protesters gathered outside the Abbey Gardens buildings, opposite the Houses of Parliament, where the hastily rearranged press conference was held.

    Held back by a police line, and surrounded by camera crews from around the world, they chanted slogans such as "Sharia for the UK" and "Freedom go to hell" and held up placards saying: "Sharia for the Netherlands" and "Islam will be superior".

    ''Defend freedom'

    One protester, Sayful Islam, said they wanted to see Mr Wilders "tried in an Islamic court" for "insulting the Prophet", adding: "We need to put this dog on a leash".

    He described Mr Wilders as "the open voice of democracy" and claimed the Dutch MP's views were shared by "every government in Europe".

       
    I feel that the more Islam that we get in our societies the less freedom that we get


    Mr Wilders said he was not setting out to insult Muslims - the majority of whom were "law-abiding" - but he defended his right to criticise the actions of a minority who he said posed a threat to society.

    "My aim is not to insult anyone but it is to defend freedom," he said.

    Asked about the protests that greeted his arrival in Westminster, he said: "I am very proud that people - even if they totally disagree with me - can use their democratic right to protest."

    Explaining his views on Islam, he said: "I have a problem with the Islamic ideology, the Islamic culture, because I feel that the more Islam that we get in our societies the less freedom that we get."

    He denied his abortive attempt in the Dutch Parliament to get the Koran banned flew in the face of his commitment to free speech.

    "Even in the United States, where they have a first amendment, there is one red line, which is the incitement of violence and this was exactly my point," he told reporters.

    He also denied responsibility for the publicity which has greeted his visit, saying: "If anybody has responsibility for this publicity it is the UK government and the home secretary and not Geert Wilders."

    Mr Wilders, who faces trial at home for inciting hatred, was allowed into the UK after a ban on him was lifted.

    The Freedom Party leader was turned away from the UK in February on the grounds that his allegedly anti-Islamic views posed a threat to public security but that decision was overturned earlier this week.

    Although agreeing not to challenge the decision, the Home Office has said Mr Wilders' comments will be closely watched by the authorities.

    Mr Wilders was invited to the UK by UK Independence Party peer Lord Pearson.

    Asked whether he too wanted to ban the Koran, he said: "I disagree with Geert in fact, who has said that if Mein Kampf is banned in Holland, then so the Koran should be banned. I don't agree with that at all.

    "I want the Koran discussed very much more and I want it particularly discussed by the 98% or whatever it is of the Muslim community who are mild, peace-loving people.

    "But what I want them to do is to get up off their bottoms and take on their violent co-religionists who do base these acts of evil on the Koran."

    'Inter-faith violence'

    When he tried to visit the UK in February, Mr Wilders was back by immigration officials at Heathrow airport on the grounds that his views could stir up "inter-faith violence".

       

    However, on Tuesday the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal ruled there was no evidence to suggest he represented a real and serious threat to the "fundamental interest" of society.

    The judges said that even if there had been evidence, it would still have been wrong to turn him away because in the event of any trouble the police would have been able to deal with it.

    The Home Office said Mr Wilders' statements and behaviour during his visit "will inevitably impact on any future decisions to admit him".

    Officials say his case differs from that of a larger number of individuals - including Islamic extremists and white supremacists - who are on a list of people excluded from Britain for "unacceptable behaviour".

    The power to impose such exclusions was introduced in 2005, following the London bombings, and applies predominantly to non-EU nationals who would seek to "foster hatred or promote terrorism".




    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8308982.stm

    So, no riots on the streets and inter faith violence then.   Roll Eyes  Jackie Smith is a twat.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #27 - October 16, 2009, 10:34 PM

    Go Geert, I like him, he truly manages to bring these Muslim protesters out in such a good light! Wink
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #28 - October 16, 2009, 10:41 PM

    His views can be a bit too far-right for my liking though.
  • Re: Geert Wilders wins appeal against ban on travelling to UK
     Reply #29 - October 17, 2009, 04:55 AM

    The funny thing is that they are showing the same 'Freedom go to hell' signs which have been mocked for so long. They should be really serious about it Shocked

    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
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