Small Chat conversation with a Muslim

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- Sameer
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Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
OP - October 20, 2009, 07:49 PM

As usual the GOD exist or not stuff...

I said,you prove to me where is GOD ..

Like as usual,that guy started to paste the verse of Quran..I know those people know that only..

I said,you show where is GOD man....

He said there is proof ... Ali ibn Abu Talib, peace be upon him, was one witness.
There are thousands of others.

Another story,there you go...I mean.If that man Ali ibn Abu Talib was one witness to see GOD...He must have taken a video of GOD..Wont he ?

The Main thing,when i said ...Ur Allah is watching Rapes/killings on Earth.Why cant he punish here ?

That guy is saying... ..these are Tests for Humans...
Bad guys,rapers will be punished in Hell....

? a joke...I mean.....So Rapes/killings is a TEST ?

Then ? about the pain that a girl is suffering here when she is killed/raped ...That is a Test ? wow..If their god(Imaginary) can watch these ...How he can be merciful ?

? a stupid brainwashed people these are...........
hmm...Some time only wasted for me as i talked with that guy...My goodness here after i will never talk with these brainwashed.
- Kafir-Supersta
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #1 - October 20, 2009, 08:40 PM

A friend of mine, ex-Muslim, had the following dialogue.

Muslim: Prove me that there is no God.
My friend: I shall prove that there is no God, if you prove that you are not a pedophile.
Muslim: Speechless.
- allat
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #2 - October 21, 2009, 02:15 AM

Quote from: Kafir-Supersta on October 20, 2009, 08:40 PM
A friend of mine, ex-Muslim, had the following dialogue.

Muslim: Prove me that there is no God.
My friend: I shall prove that there is no God, if you prove that you are not a pedophile.
Muslim: Speechless.

Good one. I might use that in the future.

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
- RIBS
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #3 - October 21, 2009, 03:02 AM

Quote from: Kafir-Supersta on October 20, 2009, 08:40 PM
A friend of mine, ex-Muslim, had the following dialogue.

Muslim: Prove me that there is no God.
My friend: I shall prove that there is no God, if you prove that you are not a pedophile.
Muslim: Speechless.

But this could be used by either ways. If you ask a Muslim prove that there is a god, he could ask you to prove that your not a pedophile.... Tricky?

...
- kaiwai
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #4 - October 21, 2009, 07:22 AM

Quote from: Kafir-Supersta on October 20, 2009, 08:40 PM
A friend of mine, ex-Muslim, had the following dialogue.

Muslim: Prove me that there is no God.
My friend: I shall prove that there is no God, if you prove that you are not a pedophile.
Muslim: Speechless.

Reminds me of the Ayn Rand quote of, "you can't prove a negative". its a logic flaw but the problem is that Muslims want to objectively prove God's existence rather than making it a private experience. But this is part and parcel with Islamism.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- Manat
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #5 - October 21, 2009, 10:13 AM

Because Muslims feel they need to prove there is a god in order to justify the imperialist agenda of the quran and sunnah. You can't tell people they should willingly submit to a caliphate or to shariah without giving them a reason why. The reason is god. Hence, very lame attempts by Muslims to prove god. If you really start to try and dig into these arguments, they start from the premise that god is necessary. How can you "prove" god if that is where you start?

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- kaiwai
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #6 - October 21, 2009, 10:32 AM

Quote from: Manat on October 21, 2009, 10:13 AM
Because Muslims feel they need to prove there is a god in order to justify the imperialist agenda of the quran and sunnah. You can't tell people they should willingly submit to a caliphate or to shariah without giving them a reason why. The reason is god. Hence, very lame attempts by Muslims to prove god. If you really start to try and dig into these arguments, they start from the premise that god is necessary. How can you "prove" god if that is where you start?

Even if one does accept one of the ontological arguments such as the cosmological argument - it only establishes at the very least a deist god and nothing approaching Allah/Hashem/etc.

"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #7 - October 21, 2009, 06:57 PM

Quote from: RIBS on October 21, 2009, 03:02 AM
But this could be used by either ways. If you ask a Muslim prove that there is a god, he could ask you to prove that your not a pedophile.... Tricky?

I thought the point was that it was showing the difficulty in proving something that you are not i.e. it is easier to prove something that is as opposed to something you're not/doesnt exist.

Taking this example, if he was a pedophile and a court was asked to prove it, then you could have witnessess/photographic evidence etc.

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- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #8 - October 22, 2009, 06:31 AM

Quote from: Manat on October 21, 2009, 10:13 AM
Because Muslims feel they need to prove there is a god in order to justify the imperialist agenda of the quran and sunnah. You can't tell people they should willingly submit to a caliphate or to shariah without giving them a reason why. The reason is god. Hence, very lame attempts by Muslims to prove god. If you really start to try and dig into these arguments, they start from the premise that god is necessary. How can you "prove" god if that is where you start?

The reason that God is made a necessary existence is because theists tend to find the notion of an infinite regress impossible. But that's not our problem, sticking God in the place of an infinite regress is like a sleight of hand because you are not allowing the possibility of any other natural cause like multiverse etc. Simply by saying that God is necessary doesn't answer any question and shifts the mystery one step back to another mystery.
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #9 - October 22, 2009, 10:33 AM

Nah, I think the fact that the god-idea rationalizes the infinite, is a bit of a low priority accident.

One of many accidents that led to godhood. Fear of death, fear of afterlife, quest for political control, quest to belong to a larger group. All those accidents imo would kaibosch the human thought process long before we start wondering about infinity.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
- Sameer
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #10 - October 23, 2009, 05:24 AM

Quote
Posted by: Baal
One of many accidents that led to godhood. Fear of death, fear of afterlife,

That is the greatest joke for me whenever i hear about the fear of afterlife...heaven..hell..so on

After death only,anyone can know if there is a hell or heaven...........Well..after death,no one knows anything....This is my view...and also for many atheists..i think....

The joke is...Those people who say ..Iam striving to go to jannah...and some one who tells..U will go to hell....These people are talking confident like...They are contacting people from Hell and Heaven from here ....
- Baal
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #11 - October 23, 2009, 02:20 PM

The heaven/hell divide, ends up causing a cycle that generates even more fear from death.

Almost like, you employed religion to alleviate fear and bring comfort. Yet religion turned on you, amplified the fear several times fold, and then kaibosched the fear to make itself seem more useful. It is often hard for the atheist, even one with a recent religious past, to remember or relate to how much fear a believer still faces, in the face of death/heaven/hell.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
- Baal
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #12 - October 23, 2009, 02:25 PM

To add to my above post, it is not useful when talking to believer to tell them they still face 'fear' or worse, 'irrational fear'. The word 'fear' will always make them defensive, as fear also denotes 'cowardice' and 'weakness of character', so nobody will admit/accept/realize that they fear.

It is much more constructive to use the word 'worry about death' and 'worry about afterlife'.

i.e. Religion attempts to alleviate the worry about death and the afterlife.
i.e. Religion fails to alleciate our worry about death, since believers are constantly worried about burning.
i.e. Religion fails to comfort us about death, and instead of celebrating the lives of our dead ones, we will spend time worrying about whether they were good enough to goto heaven, or they burning in hell, or worse, the torture of the grave.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
- Sameer
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Re: Small Chat conversation with a Muslim
Reply #13 - October 24, 2009, 04:42 AM

Quote
Posted by: Baal
i.e. Religion attempts to alleviate the worry about death and the afterlife.
i.e. Religion fails to alleciate our worry about death, since believers are constantly worried about burning.
i.e. Religion fails to comfort us about death, and instead of celebrating the lives of our dead ones, we will spend time worrying about whether they were good enough to goto heaven, or they burning in hell, or worse, the torture of the grave.

Well said.Those are good points,I noted it down
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