Poppy

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Poppy
OP - November 02, 2009, 09:44 PM

Just curious, kept forgetting, will wear it tomorrow onwards.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #1 - November 02, 2009, 10:29 PM

What for? What's the significance?

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Re: Poppy
Reply #2 - November 02, 2009, 10:53 PM

Quote from: awais on November 02, 2009, 10:29 PM
What for? What's the significance?

Are you serious?

It's to remember all the men who died during WWI and in all wars after since then as well.

RIP all of them

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Poppy
Reply #3 - November 02, 2009, 11:04 PM

I've never heard of such a tradition, sorry. It's not something that's known in my neck of the woods.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #4 - November 02, 2009, 11:12 PM

Where do you live then?

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Re: Poppy
Reply #5 - November 02, 2009, 11:35 PM

U S and A

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Re: Poppy
Reply #6 - November 03, 2009, 01:25 AM

Awais we used to have this same tradition here, but only on Nov 11. The guys from the American Legion or VFW, one of them, used to hand out red tissue poppies to wear. Dunno if anyone does it anymore. Haven't had a poppy since I was in school.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #7 - November 03, 2009, 01:43 AM

Hm. I'll ask around, and see if they're doing anything at one of the local VFWs.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #8 - November 03, 2009, 08:29 AM

I'm not wearing one, I think it's time to forget.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #9 - November 03, 2009, 04:43 PM

I think that was an utterly stupid and nasty comment.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #10 - November 03, 2009, 05:36 PM

Quote from: ras111 on November 03, 2009, 04:43 PM
I think that was an utterly stupid and nasty comment.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #11 - November 03, 2009, 05:38 PM

I don't wear one, because wearing a poppy is glorification of wars which should never have been fought.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #12 - November 03, 2009, 05:43 PM

Quote from: ras111 on November 03, 2009, 04:43 PM
I think that was an utterly stupid and nasty comment.

'Nasty', has got nothing to do with it, neither is it 'stupid'.

Care to explain why it was so great that it should be remembered in 2009? And whilst your at it, what isn't 'nasty' about sending thousands upon thousands of kids to their deaths?

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Re: Poppy
Reply #13 - November 03, 2009, 06:58 PM

Because, what ever their reasons for joining, their fighting and their sacrifice helped contribute to us having some of the freedoms we have today.. Especially in WW2. It is also good that we remember them to remind ourselves where having idiot rulers could lead to..

When history is forgotten it is likely that it will be repeated. It was bad that they had to go, lets not make it worse by forgetting them and the lessons the survivors learned.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Poppy
Reply #14 - November 03, 2009, 07:22 PM

Quote from: ras111 on November 03, 2009, 04:43 PM
I think that was an utterly stupid and nasty comment.

Absent any clarifying context to Jack's statement, I don't think your conclusion is warranted.

Quote from: aliadiere on November 03, 2009, 05:38 PM
I don't wear one, because wearing a poppy is glorification of wars which should never have been fought.

I don't wear one because all my poppies are invested in opium production.

But seriously--

1. While wearing a poppy could be "glorification of war", it needn't be, depending on the wearer's intent-- could signify that the wearer is honoring the fallen soldiers, whether or not they think the war was justified.

2. What do you mean by "wars which should never have been fought"? Do you mean the UK should not have intervened in any conflicts, inclusive of WWII?

Quote from: ras111 on November 03, 2009, 06:58 PM
Because, what ever their reasons for joining, their fighting and their sacrifice helped contribute to us having some of the freedoms we have today.. Especially in WW2. It is also good that we remember them to remind ourselves where having idiot rulers could lead to..

When history is forgotten it is likely that it will be repeated. It was bad that they had to go, lets not make it worse by forgetting them and the lessons the survivors learned.

While I definitely agree with you on WWII, it's certainly arguable that UK's participation in WWI and other international conflicts caused more harm than good-- not sure I buy that argument, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either-- I think a strong case can be made that Allied defeat in WWI would have been preferable as it would have prevented the rise of the Nazis and the much worse horror they inflicted, would have prevented the creation of the Soviet Empire, and possibly would have led to better social development in the Middle East without post-WWI colonialism or Cold War politics interfering in the region's affairs. And I'm anything but convinced that Britain's other wars or military interventions since WWI (excepting WWII) were for the good or liberty of anyone.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #15 - November 03, 2009, 07:40 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on November 03, 2009, 07:22 PM
Absent any clarifying context to Jack's statement, I don't think your conclusion is warranted.

It was an opinion rather than a conclusion... As a firm believer in free speech, I have the right to say what I feel just as you and everybody else does...

Quote from: Q-Man on November 03, 2009, 07:22 PM

While I definitely agree with you on WWII, it's certainly arguable that UK's participation in WWI and other international conflicts caused more harm than good-- not sure I buy that argument, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either-- I think a strong case can be made that Allied defeat in WWI would have been preferable as it would have prevented the rise of the Nazis and the much worse horror they inflicted, would have prevented the creation of the Soviet Empire, and possibly would have led to better social development in the Middle East without post-WWI colonialism or Cold War politics interfering in the region's affairs. And I'm anything but convinced that Britain's other wars or military interventions since WWI (excepting WWII) were for the good or liberty of anyone.

You never know what could have happened had the allies been defeated, perhaps it wouldn't have prevented another ideological despot from coming to power else were. The fact is that we will never know. Still it is no excuse to forget the people who sacrificed themselves, whether their cause was noble or not, and what they suffered, while the authorities lived a good life.

I have not justified Britain's other wars either. The reason for the war is irrelevent, it is the people who signed up to defend and protect their society and if necessary suffer and die for future generations to live safely and for our societies values to be preserved, that we remember.. not how or what they died for..

If the war is unjust that is the politician's fault not the soldier's.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Poppy
Reply #16 - November 03, 2009, 07:42 PM

Quote from: ras111 on November 03, 2009, 07:40 PM
It was an opinion rather than a conclusion... As a firm believer in free speech, I have the right to say what I feel just as you and everybody else does...

Sorry, did someone here question your right to free speech?

Quote
You never know what could have happened had the allies been defeated, perhaps it wouldn't have prevented another ideological despot from coming to power else were. The fact is that we will never know. Still it is no excuse to forget the people who sacrificed themselves, whether their cause was noble or not, and what they suffered, while the authorities lived a good life.

I have not justified Britain's other wars either. The reason for the war is irrelevent, it is the people who signed up to defend and protect their society and if necessary suffer and die to uphold our values, that we remember.. not how or what they died for..

If the war is unjust that is the politician's fault not the soldier's.

Fair enough.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #17 - November 03, 2009, 07:51 PM

Quote
1. While wearing a poppy could be "glorification of war", it needn't be, depending on the wearer's intent-- could signify that the wearer is honoring the fallen soldiers, whether or not they think the war was justified.

People wear a poppy to raise money to support soldiers and their families, and to remember fallen soldiers. But I don't think it looks at the bigger picture; why these lads are having to go to wars. In my opinion, the majority of wars that have been fought in the last century have either been imperialistic wars, and the soldiers dying in Afghanistan now are simply dying to save the careers of politicians. I think the British Legion should devote at least some of its time questioning politicians on the need for sending soldiers to these dubious wars.

Quote
2. What do you mean by "wars which should never have been fought"? Do you mean the UK should not have intervened in any conflicts, inclusive of WWII?

World war one was a ridiculous war, fought over nothing and with disastrous consequences. This clip from blackadder pretty much sums up the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk37TD_08eA

Britain was justified in intervening in the Second World War because Germany was a legitimate threat to Britain and her allies; but as you said before, the Second World War only happened because the First World War fucked Germany up. Anyway, I am no expert on Modern History, not by a mile, please enlighten me if you can.

As for the other wars that Britain has been involved in since the Second World War such as the Suez Crisis, the Falklands War, and Iraq. I don't think any of these wars were morally justifiable and they belong to a long list of imperialistic wars.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #18 - November 03, 2009, 08:09 PM

Interesting poll so far.

I suppose I wear one out of respect that I don't just take this country for granted in what it has achieved, and how it has provided open arms to people elsewhere in the world with similar values for the better.

My view on war is that the reality is they are needed at times. And with regret, especially times like now in Afghanistan, Pakistan and possibly but hopefully not Iran.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #19 - November 03, 2009, 08:22 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on November 03, 2009, 07:51 PM
the Falklands War

I doubt whether you could consider that as being an imperialistic war.... It was Argentina who invaded the Falklands

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Re: Poppy
Reply #20 - November 03, 2009, 08:48 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on November 03, 2009, 07:51 PM

World war one was a ridiculous war, fought over nothing and with disastrous consequences. This clip from blackadder pretty much sums up the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk37TD_08eA

Blackadder was brilliant - why dont they make comedies like that or ones like Cheers & Only fools & horses anymore?

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Re: Poppy
Reply #21 - November 03, 2009, 09:14 PM

Because Friends, American Dad and Stewie are much more funnier.

Alright I admit, I've never really watched Blackadder. Show us a clip that beats Stewie beating up Brian:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x905ql_family-guy-stewie-beats-brian-part_fun

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Re: Poppy
Reply #22 - November 03, 2009, 09:22 PM

Friends, American Dad, and Family Guy are nowhere near in the same league as Blackadder. Family Guy was good up until series 3, after that they started believing their own hype. With American Dad, Seth McFarlane tried to make it seem like he was doing something different, but in reality it was the same as Family Guy. And Friends is good, not brilliant or groundbreaking, but just good.

Oh, and I never liked that Family Guy scene with Stewie beating up Brian. I thought it went on too long and got boring after a while.

So did the Peter fighting the Chicken scene - The first one was brilliant but every subsequent time they did it, it was so annoying, and I just wished they would get on with the episode! I think they wanted their own "Homer falling to the bottom of the gorge" moment.

Anyway, that was a massive derail!

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Re: Poppy
Reply #23 - November 03, 2009, 09:38 PM

Quote from: ras111 on November 03, 2009, 08:22 PM
I doubt whether you could consider that as being an imperialistic war.... It was Argentina who invaded the Falklands

Of course it was imperialistic. It was fought over a disputed territory which both Argentina and the United Kingdom claim.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #24 - November 03, 2009, 10:30 PM

Quote from: aliadiere on November 03, 2009, 09:38 PM
Of course it was imperialistic. It was fought over a disputed territory which both Argentina and the United Kingdom claim.

It is legally recognised as being British territory... Argentina invaded... It is more of a case of defence...

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Re: Poppy
Reply #25 - November 04, 2009, 01:03 AM

Yeah, yeah.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #26 - November 04, 2009, 08:24 AM

Quote from: ras111 on November 03, 2009, 07:40 PM
It was an opinion rather than a conclusion... As a firm believer in free speech, I have the right to say what I feel just as you and everybody else does...

If the war is unjust that is the politician's fault not the soldier's.

And yours was free speech of the ignorant kind, don't abuse it. That's my opinion.

I have a problem with the last statement and the way we are supposed to support 'our boys' - whatever they are up to in the name of their government.

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Re: Poppy
Reply #27 - November 04, 2009, 09:23 AM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 04, 2009, 08:24 AM
And yours was free speech of the ignorant kind, don't abuse it. That's my opinion.

Fair enough... the feeling is mutual, so it's best to disengage

Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 04, 2009, 08:24 AM
I have a problem with the last statement and the way we are supposed to support 'our boys' - whatever they are up to in the name of their government.

You are not supposed to or forced to do anything. The point I was trying to make there is that it is not the soldiers who are at fault but the people who send them there, and how it bears no to relevance to remembering the war dead or making the mistake of forgetting history or those left behind..

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Poppy
Reply #28 - November 04, 2009, 09:50 AM

By the same token, do you have respect for dead Taliban fighters?

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Re: Poppy
Reply #29 - November 04, 2009, 10:10 AM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 04, 2009, 09:50 AM
By the same token, do you have respect for dead Taliban fighters?

touche

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