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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello from EDL

 (Read 41215 times)
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  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #30 - November 10, 2009, 06:30 PM

    I don't know if we can make a clearer statement than waving the flag next to a sign that says "black and white unite," to be honest, although because it's more inclusive I personally prefer "all races unite for england."
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #31 - November 10, 2009, 06:32 PM

    I don't know if we can make a clearer statement than waving the flag next to a sign that says "black and white unite," to be honest, although because it's more inclusive I personally prefer "all races unite for england."


    How about "All races and religions unite for England"?

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #32 - November 10, 2009, 06:39 PM

    How about "All people unite for everyone"?
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #33 - November 10, 2009, 06:51 PM

    How about "All races and religions unite for England"?


    Doesn't have as much punch though does it? Could do an "all religions unite for England" separate placard, that would be good.

    @nineberry
    we're patriotic, and we believe in states with borders. that's something that's not going to change.
    that said, there's nothing wrong with a more general "unite against sharia" placard
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #34 - November 10, 2009, 06:59 PM

    oh, so you believe in borders.

    So can one carry a placard reading "All races unite for Upper Hampton Street"?   dance
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #35 - November 10, 2009, 07:07 PM

    How about "All races and religions unite for England"?



    Better than EDL. 'All religions support England', ARSE being the acronym Smiley

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #36 - November 10, 2009, 07:16 PM

    There are some good points, some bad points, some humorous, and some not so.

    I'd like to point out that we are not uniting for England, rather we are uniting (or trying to) against radical islam.

    It is my belief that some of the greatest victims of radical islam are muslims themselves.  Now I know I do not address muslims right now, rather ex-muslims, but I do believe that people of the muslim faith are mortified that their religion is being used by these extremists to promote their hatred toward others.

    They are using the Koran (I use the standardised western spelling I hope that is ok) to promote their hatred.  Anybody could if they so wished use the Bible to promote the same.  I think if the Spanish Inquisition were to start today that Christians would be horrified, and I therefore believe that Muslims are also.  Would that be a correct assumption?

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #37 - November 10, 2009, 08:01 PM

    Why do you specifically target Radical Islam? Radical Islam is by no means the biggest threat to this country, not by a mile. And why does what you stand for, and the name of your organisation suggest that England is under serious threat from Radical Islam and that England needs to be defended before it is too late?

    Nothing but a reactionary, fearmongering group trying to create divisions.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #38 - November 10, 2009, 08:08 PM

    Hi FreedomFry & pdbedl and welcome Smiley

    I have been impressed by some of the things you have said here.

    I was at the British Muslims for Secular Democracy demo against Anjem's thugs on Saturday 31st and met people who appeared to be EDL (though it seems they have been identified by press as "the English Democrats" for some reason??) and I was glad to say that the few I spoke to did seem to be genuine in their claims they were not racists and were happy to support the BMSD efforts.

    That said, I have been extremely wary and skeptic of the EDL and have spoken to Maryam (head of CEMB) about my reservations and so I know she shares my reservations.

    The bottom line is that she and I feel that confronting extremism from a Nationalist perspective is not going to fruitful in the long run and will attract many undesirable types. Your tactics have also been very questionable to say the least.

    When you are dealing with the popular perception, sending the right signals and portraying the right image is all-important. Even though you, Arthur and many others may have very good and noble intentions - the direction you are coming from and the tactics you have been using send a lot of signals that will inevitably be - and have - been very misunderstood - to say the least!
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #39 - November 10, 2009, 08:15 PM

    It is my belief that some of the greatest victims of radical islam are muslims themselves.


    Well said! Muslims are indeed the biggest victims of radical Islam.

    Now I know I do not address muslims right now, rather ex-muslims, but I do believe that people of the muslim faith are mortified that their religion is being used by these extremists to promote their hatred toward others.

    They are using the Koran (I use the standardised western spelling I hope that is ok) to promote their hatred.  Anybody could if they so wished use the Bible to promote the same.  I think if the Spanish Inquisition were to start today that Christians would be horrified, and I therefore believe that Muslims are also.  Would that be a correct assumption?


    Again well said.

    Although (as you will probably see from the many discussions here) we as ex-Muslims do believe that Islam does (at the very least) lend itself rather too easily to hard-line interpretation. The fact is that most Muslims do not follow hard-line interpretations and should not be blamed for the actions of the minority.
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #40 - November 10, 2009, 08:24 PM

    Hi FreedomFry & pdbedl and welcome Smiley


    Thank you for the warm welcome

    I was also add that I was at the British Muslims for Secular Democracy Demo recently and met people who appeared to be EDL (though it seems they have been identified by press as "the English Democrats" for some reason??) and I was glad to say that the few I spoke to did seem to be genuine in their claims they were not racists and were happy to support the BMSD efforts.


    If the lads you were with had a pint with you, they were indeed EDL, I have seen their report of the days events.  They spoke very highly of you chaps.

    This 'English Democrat' thing is some kind of multi-racial patriotic party from what I believe, I really haven't read too much about them.  They've been trying hard to latch onto the popularity of EDL but let me assure you they are a separate entity.

    That said, I have been extremely wary and skeptic of the EDL and have spoken to Maryam (head of CEMB) about my reservations and so I know she shares my reservations.

    The bottom line is that she and I feel that confronting extremism from a Nationalist perspective is not going to fruitful in the long run and will attract many undesirable types. Your tactics have also been very questionable to say the least.

    When you are dealing with the popular perception, sending the right signals and portraying the right image is all-important. Even though you, Arthur and many others may have very good and noble intentions - the direction you are coming from and the tactics you have been using send a lot of signals that will inevitably be - and have - been very misunderstood - to say the least!


    I understand.  Rome was not built in a day.

    If at the very least over the course of this discussion we all come away with a better understanding of each other then we at least have done some good in our little corner of the world, and that can only be a good thing.  Even a journey of a thousand miles begins with just one step.

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #41 - November 10, 2009, 08:33 PM

    Pdb, I was the one who convinced that super patriotic Muslim to come back to the pub with us (he had a coke). His name wasn't Hassan and he wasn't affiliated with the BMSD, just there to see what was going on. It's quite funny, he was actually called Choudary.

    The BMSD guy I met was called Faisal and it looked like he was in charge.
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #42 - November 10, 2009, 08:34 PM

    Although (as you will probably see from the many discussions here) we as ex-Muslims do believe that Islam does (at the very least) lend itself rather too easily to hard-line interpretation. The fact is that most Muslims do not follow hard-line interpretations and should not be blamed for the actions of the minority.


    Thank you for confirming what I believed to be right.

    I do fully believe that there is a massive majority of good within the Muslim population.  I will be honest (as I told you I would be at the very beginning) and say both that I am not alone in this belief, but also there is a great deal of mistrust toward to Muslim population from some within the EDL.  I would say this is about a 70/30 split, the majority of the same opinion as myself that the Muslim population as a whole is made up of good people with no intentions to harm us.  This is a rough estimate, though I do believe it would be fairly accurate.

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #43 - November 10, 2009, 08:35 PM

    Pdb, I was the one who convinced that super patriotic Muslim to come back to the pub with us (he had a coke). His name wasn't Hassan and he wasn't affiliated with the BMSD, just there to see what was going on. It's quite funny, he was actually called Choudary.

    The BMSD guy I met was called Faisal and it looked like he was in charge.


    Thanks for clearing that up mate, I did think you were one of those lads but wasn't sure.  thnkyu

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #44 - November 10, 2009, 08:57 PM

    Wasn't me at the pub, but would have jumped at the invitation.

    That is me at the back with a dark green jumper, white collar, specs and a silly smile on my face. (btw I have been to a few demos now - I am an ex-Muslim - and never would I wear a balaclava - what an awful image and message to send!)

    The lady in the red scarf next to me is one of our organisers of the One Law for All anti-Shari'ah Demo on the 21st.

    Below that are some of the EDL guys who were at the Demo. I have to say we were all a bit wary of them but they behaved themselves, and seemed friendly. One offered me the flag he was cloaked in - for a photo shoot we were having. I thanked him but declined - I'm not the flag waving (and even less the flag wearing) type Smiley




  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #45 - November 10, 2009, 09:04 PM

    The guy you're talking to in that picture is the same one I had a chat with. The BMSD one, not the one who came to the pub. From what he said to me his main concern with the EDL was with possible BNP connections. I hope I managed to convince him that there wasn't anything to worry about on that score.  He asked me if they as Asians and Muslims would be welcome at one of our demos and seemed a bit surprised when I said "yes of course."
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #46 - November 10, 2009, 09:11 PM

    Those are great pics mate, thanks for sharing  Afro

    I know what you mean about being wary.  At the Leeds demo, we were told by the police to go for a pint (ordered by the state, who can argue  yes )

    I got in there and saw opposite me was the roughest looking bloke, built like a brick dunghouse, hair all shaved off, a face only a mother could love (hope he isn't reading this lol).

    He started talking to me and I was amazed, he was intelligent, witty, a good family man, well spoken, hard working and very very pleasant.  I wish I had a pic of him, you'd probably run a mile.  Perhaps put his picture on the mantlepiece to keep the kids away from the fire.

    It just shows you what barriers can be broken down via communication, does it not?

    There isn't a single poster on that picture that I don't agree with.

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #47 - November 10, 2009, 09:12 PM

    The guy you're talking to in that picture is the same one I had a chat with. The BMSD one, not the one who came to the pub. From what he said to me his main concern with the EDL was with possible BNP connections. I hope I managed to convince him that there wasn't anything to worry about on that score.  He asked me if they as Asians and Muslims would be welcome at one of our demos and seemed a bit surprised when I said "yes of course."


    Yes I know the chap you mean - though he is not the head of BMSD (that is a guy called Shaaz Mahboob) The one you refer to is a really nice guy (as all the guys and gals I met are) and he is the one who appears in their spoof Muhajiroun demo saying "I have a message for those who insult Islam... let's agree to disagree"  grin12 - of course mocking al-Muhajiroun's "Behead those who insult Islam!")

    btw you have mistaken me - I'm to the far right of the picture with dark green jumper, white collar and specs.

    Smiley

    This was the BMSD spoof video incase you haven't seen it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn2JgvWZJ-0
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #48 - November 10, 2009, 09:15 PM

    ah right, just saw "green jumper"

    I loved that video. That was how I introduced myself first off, by telling him I was a fan of it.
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #49 - November 10, 2009, 09:33 PM

    Interesting. Literally draping yourself in the flag would be considered a pretty major violation of proper flag etiquette in this country and would be frowned upon by many self-proclaimed "patriots" here.

    In fact, technically speaking, it's a violation of Federal law:

    http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#176

    Though, Constitutionally, it's not really enforceable upon civilians.

    Then again, most countries don't venerate the flag as much as we do, which makes sense-- being the first modern and secular nation-state we never had a monarchial or religious object as an object of national veneration, so, over time, the flag became the object of national veneration. Though it wasn't until the late 19th century/early 20th century that the US flag became as venerated as it is today.

    What pisses me off it people who display the US flag improperly (leave it up at night, unlit, or in poor weather, lower it to half staff without statutory or executive authority to do so, or leave a big ass-flag on the back of your pickup truck for so long that it gets tattered). I mean, really, if you're gonna make an obnoxious display of your patriotism (which many Americans do), then fine, but follow the damn flag code and proper etiquette you ignorant bastard! [/rant]

    fuck you
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #50 - November 10, 2009, 09:38 PM

    I didn't know that about the US flag QMan, thanks for that bud.

    While we are sharing piccies, here is one of me at the Leeds demo.

    [image removed]

    I am the guy centre right with the poppy.

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #51 - November 10, 2009, 09:47 PM

    It just shows you what barriers can be broken down via communication, does it not?


    Indeed!
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #52 - November 10, 2009, 10:59 PM

    I'd be interested in any comments you have on this article:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/04/fatwa-english-defence-league

    Far right embraces fatwas

    The English Defence League claims to protest against threats and intimidation ? yet one of its organisers has issued a fatwa
     
    Jason N Parkinson
    guardian.co.uk

    The English Defence League (EDL) claims it is a non-racist, multicultural organisation engaged in "peaceful" protests against Muslim extremism. If that's the case could someone please explain why one of its organisers has issued a fatwa against a journalist?

    On Saturday, I covered the group's protest in Leeds. After the event, a well-known EDL organiser saw fit to email a death threat to me with the title "Fatwa". The email said: "A fatwa has been issued on you my communist friend. Enjoy any money you've made from EDL protests, as if you are spotted again you will be fed up." The email was signed "Simples". But a little investigation discovered it originated from an organiser of the English and Welsh Defence League divisions.

    Unfortunately this was not an isolated incident. Photographer and investigative journalist Marc Vall?e also received an email containing a death threat, only days after being pictured and named by the extreme right website Redwatch ? a long-running site with links to Combat 18. Redwatch was set up to identify, intimidate and target those who protest at, document or investigate far-right groups.

    A National Union of Journalist (NUJ) statement refers to verbal threats and intimidation aimed at photographers covering the EDL march at the weekend and other EDL protests this year.

    I find it almost comically ironic that these very tactics are exactly what the EDL claims to be "peacefully protesting" against. And now one of its organisers has issued a "fatwa". I thought only Islamic extremists did that? But this behaviour should come as no surprise from a group declaring it is not racist when chants like, "If you all hate Pakis clap your hands" and "I hate Pakis more than you" are commonplace during its demonstrations.

    The fact of the matter is these emails, the latest in a catalogue of racist chants, intimidation, violence and Nazi salutes, expose a darker side to the EDL. No matter how many people of varying ethnicity it pulls in on its protests, it will not disguise its roots in far-right and fascist politics or its football hooligan tactics. The trouble is some people believe the EDL propaganda. It has growing support from disillusioned young white people, as seen in Manchester, where its numbers were around 1,000.

    The recent BBC reports of EDL protests paint a very different picture to what I saw on the ground, they seem to be playing down the serious public order threat the EDL represents. It was claimed the numbers at Unite Against Fascism (UAF) counter-protests exceeded the EDL numbers two-to-one. The truth is in Manchester it was the opposite, the EDL also outnumbered the police.

    The BBC report on Saturday in Leeds mentioned nothing of the EDL supporters breaking out of the protest pen, police beating them back with batons and the hour-long street rampage that ensued, knocking over motorbikes, running over cars, damaging shop windows and physically assaulting members of the press.

    Perhaps someone should remind the EDL that like the right to protest, press freedom underpins the free democratic society it so boldly proclaims it is in the street to protect. Intimidation, violence, fatwas and threatening emails do not.
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #53 - November 11, 2009, 12:33 AM

    Our leadership are looking into pursuing a libel action over that article, that's about all I know. What do you expect, when the politicised NUJ have actually mobilised against us at past protests, as a part of that severly misguided "anti-fascist" bunch?
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #54 - November 11, 2009, 05:17 AM

    Nothing more to say Hassan other than that is a pure fabrication, no more no less mate.

    'Media Lies About The EDL Shocker'

    These last few months have certainly opened my eyes a lot let me tell you.

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #55 - November 11, 2009, 07:53 AM

    OK, guys. But as Q-Man said, 'actions speak louder than words'. I shall be keeping an open-mind - but also a close eye on the EDL.

    I still fear that no matter how well-intentioned and sincere you guys are, you will find it very hard to prevent the EDL running away from you and into the arms of those who have a racist or far-right agenda.

  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #56 - November 11, 2009, 08:12 AM

    That particular battle has already been won barring the mopping up.

    EDL is well and truly under control in that regard.

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #57 - November 11, 2009, 10:42 AM

     Pbdedl wrote
    Quote
    That particular battle has already been won barring the mopping up.

    EDL is well and truly under control in that regard


     Its not the first time these death threats have happened.Look at the way Julie Keller was bombarded with hate mail and death threats when she was mistaken for the woman with a megaphone in Manchester.The truth is its impossible to control an organisation like the ELD as by its very nature it is going to attract social misfits.I have no doubt the majority of the guys are sincere but it only takes one or two loose cannons to wreck everything.

     I would suggest you are going to need a lot of money if you are going to take libel action against the Guardian.In fact it might even be their gameplan,to put you into a corner where you are forced to take libel action and then use their huge resources to bankrupt the leadership.A far more postive approach would be to change the image of the EDL so it dosen't appeal to the far-right.The football lad image is a huge turn-off for the majority of people as its associated with hooliganism and binge drinking.We were discussing the EDL on another forum and these are the observations of someone who witnessed the Birmingham demo.

     
    Quote
    Im sure many of the EDL are ordinary people like you describe, but I was there at their last one in Brum, loads of nazi salutes, loads of hoolies, loads of fully clobbered up skins.

    Also loads of "anti-racists" beating up anyone who was white, they were the worst behaved, so dont go thinking Im one of the lefties!


     Due to the "nazi" image the EDL attracts the attention of the UAF and it ends up as the old commie/nazi confrontation and the real message is lost.The EDL needs an image that is in line with true English values,ie,a sense of decency,fairplay and rights for all.At the moment the EDL has got a horrible image and no clear message.

     



     
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #58 - November 11, 2009, 10:56 AM

    "At the moment the EDL has got a horrible image and no clear message."

     Afro



    Ha Ha.
  • Re: Hello from EDL
     Reply #59 - November 11, 2009, 11:39 AM

    That also is changing.

    At Manchester, the bulk of the police information on EDL was from the lies of the (now exposed for who they really are) UAF/SWP and the leftist media.  So they were very aggressive towards the EDL support doing things like using their batons on the backs of peoples legs as they walked past, and allowing/losing control of dogs which ripped quite a few peoples skin, needing many stitches in some cases.  They were also physically stopping people from getting to the demo.

    In Leeds, the police realised that EDL weren't quite as bad as was initially thought, and we were allowed our protest with much humour and wellbeing from the police as a whole.  There were zero EDL arrests on the day, there were several UAF/SWP.

    Our leadership had a meeting with the police yesterday and they report that (without going into details) the meeting went very well indeed and that things are looking very good indeed for the future.

    As a follow on from this, the media will now start to show the EDL in a better (truer) light.

    There has also been a good deal of infiltration by the police and MI5, and we very much welcome them in as we really do have nothing to hide, and our publicly stated goals are our true goals, no hidden agenda whatsoever.  This is being fast found out by the establishment, and so things can go much further now as the respectability of the English Defence League grows.

    With regard to Julie Keller, I will again be 100% honest and say that yes, she is a leading figure in the communist community. Some did report that it was her that was spoiling the minutes silence (whether it was or not her is up for debate, it very much sounded like her).  Her phone number was posted and before the moderators could remove it, some people had ordered kebabs and taxis, possibly pizza's etc to her house.  Nobody has said they made any kind of death threat.  From the UAF/SWP past record on lying, it would not surprise me at all if Ms Keller told a few little fibs about this in order to try make the EDL look bad.  Certainly there have been no arrests and as far as I know she remains totally unhurt by anybody, and certainly not dead.

    Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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