Hello from EDL

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- FreedomFry
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #60 - November 11, 2009, 12:47 PM

pdb is right that the danger of the actual EDL organisation being hijacked by those with "a racist or far-right agenda" is negligible. However the danger remains that they will crash our demos and hijack the public image, even as they remain despised by most of the members. Hopefully we can use protest wardens and the like to sort this out.

What I've really picked up from this conversation is that there seems to be a definite disconnect between the view from the inside and the view from the outside regarding what problems the EDL needs to tackle to broaden it's appeal. From my perspective, the main danger are several people, not in any positions of leadership but active on the forum (and we try to maximise free discussion), who are trying to take the EDL down a road that would make it more like SIOE. These folks are always on about 'taqiyya' and Mohammed's terrible example as the 'perfect man,' and the commandments to Jihad in the Koran, and other concepts which may apply to the extremists but I strongly doubt have any relevance at all to the way most ordinary Muslims live their lives. They seem to be coming at it from the perspective that the extremists represent "true Islam" and that all the people we would refer to as 'moderate,' 'nominal' or 'cultural' Muslims are thus not actually Muslims (or are practicing taqiyya!). I have been arguing (and this ties in to judging people by their actions) that we should define Islam as "what Muslims believe (accepting all those who consider themselves Muslims as Muslims)," not define Muslims as "those who believe in Islam (which we define first)." I hope that that distinction makes sense. If we accept that the extremists are right in their interpretation of Islam (as many non-Muslims in the UK have) then of course Islam is incompatible with British culture and we should be generally against Islam. Those Muslims who enjoy the freedom here and just want to live their lives and not wage jihad would thus not be true Muslims and being against Islam wouldn't cover them, since they're not Muslims. This is what some people are trying to push. Indeed, on the 31st the same day I talked to the BMSD people I went over and chatted with an SIOE guy who I had met before and he was convinced that the BMSD stuff was taqiyya (although I told him to watch the video and he might change his mind). I showed him the "Muslims welcome/Extremists out!" sign I had brought along and he said, "that's where we differ." But I don't think it was because he is against all Muslims just because he believes that only the extremists are actually "Muslims."
I am definitely interested in what sort of opinions regarding this I might get on an ex-Muslim forum. Maybe you agree that the extremists represent true Islam which is why you chose to leave? I really don't know what to expect.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #61 - November 11, 2009, 01:00 PM

Quote
I have been arguing (and this ties in to judging people by their actions) that we should define Islam as "what Muslims believe (accepting all those who consider themselves Muslims as Muslims)," not define Muslims as "those who believe in Islam (which we define first)."

That's a good way to look at it. If you start from the point of trying to define "true Islam" you end up in the same kind of mental rut as the extremists themselves.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #62 - November 11, 2009, 01:19 PM

I'm also not to keen on this demonization of the liberal left - as Guardian reading, middle of the road woolly liberal myself - I find that very off-putting.

I know elements of the liberal left has been responsible for a lot of the PC nonsense and bowing to cultural relativism and even the Islamists themselves - but it would be just as wrong to pigeon-hole the whole of the liberal left as "Far-Left"/Commies/SWP etc...

That is if you truly want a broad base of support.

There are some very strong opponents of the Islamic Radicals amongst the left also - and perhaps I should point out that one of the Trustees of the British Muslims for Secular Democracy - who you rightly would like to support in their efforts against Radical Islam - is the woolly left liberal Guardian columnist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.

Regardless of what you may think of her - I'm sure you agree that no movement that hopes to gain the mass support of the British People will ever succeed unless it broad-based and not seen as part of the usual left v right.

Perhaps I should also point out that although most rank and file CEMB members/supporters are middle of the road politically - Maryam and the original activists who launched and drive CEMB all come from a leftist background. (Though I hasten to add that Maryam has made it clear that the CEMB is an "Issue" based group - and not driven by any particular political ideology.)
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #63 - November 11, 2009, 01:36 PM

Quote from: FreedomFry on November 11, 2009, 12:47 PM
I went over and chatted with an SIOE guy who I had met before and he was convinced that the BMSD stuff was taqiyya (although I told him to watch the video and he might change his mind). I showed him the "Muslims welcome/Extremists out!" sign I had brought along and he said, "that's where we differ." But I don't think it was because he is against all Muslims just because he believes that only the extremists are actually "Muslims."

You will never convince this type of person that Muslims are not all extremists or a threat. They see every single Muslim as either an extremist or an extremist waiting to happen.

There is nothing a Muslim can ever do to re-assure these people.

I have left Islam - and even make videos criticising it - yet even I have been accused of being a "Taqiyya Tactician" by some of these nuts. (Simply because I insist that there are many different interpretations of Islam - moderate as well as extremist. And for this "crime" I am obviously working for the enemy. They of course know more about Islam having read a few BNP pamphlets than I do having spent a life-time as a Muslim and studying Islam.)

These people must be kept far, far away from EDL if you have any shred of hope of gaining mass support.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #64 - November 11, 2009, 01:41 PM

The 'left' have demonised themselves via their lying.

I'll give an example, onto our forum came one day a guy called 'skinhead72' who it turned out very quickly was a nazi of the most disgusting type.

He posted his drivel about gays and jews etc, and there followed about 90 posts telling him to go get his head out the toilet and a few other choice words. He was left in no uncertain terms about his position on the forum. He soon scuttled off back under his stone.

Next thing we see is a leftist blog, which goes on to highlight the posts of skinhead72, and puts it across as though he was a representative voice of EDL. They didn't mention a single one of the posts telling him to 'go away'. Not one.

So I fully reserve the right to have issues with those who very clearly seek to paint the wrong picture. Now I would be delighted if the media reported the EDL warts and all, so long as it was the truth. I would be overjoyed if they spotted the one git who did a nazi salute in Leeds and put a picture up of him. But they are going round inventing stories about what I know to be good people. It is a disgrace because it could lead to somebody being murdered for being a nazi when they are everything but.

I know one of the lads there who has been called a nazi who is married to an Indian woman. It is very frustrating to say the least.

They are not alone I hasten to add. Right wing media has also done a good deal of misrepresentation, though they at least have stopped short of actually lying.

This appears to be a major problem in the British media today.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #65 - November 11, 2009, 01:44 PM

See that's good that leftists will stand up on this issue, and really negates the main grievance that the EDL has with a lot of them, which is that of hypocrisy. As leftists they should be standing up for the rights of women, should be standing up for the rights of gays, and yet too many side with those who want to take these away, putting it mildly. Most of the EDL actually come from a very non-political place (although neither of the 2 you have on this thread do) and there has been a lot of confusion from people just entering the political arena by joining the EDL that they are labelled right-wing for wanting to oppose Islamic extremism. Surely that is a cross-spectrum cause? That is the stance we've taken. Still, some on the left are far too ready to side with anyone who is against "the West."

Edit: pdb, I think he's pointing out that that's an unrepresentative sample of 'the left.' But yes, another grievance is that it has mainly been self-described leftists dishonestly demonising us.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #66 - November 11, 2009, 02:04 PM

Quote
From my perspective, the main danger are several people, not in any positions of leadership but active on the forum (and we try to maximise free discussion), who are trying to take the EDL down a road that would make it more like SIOE. These folks are always on about 'taqiyya' and Mohammed's terrible example as the 'perfect man,' and the commandments to Jihad in the Koran, and other concepts which may apply to the extremists but I strongly doubt have any relevance at all to the way most ordinary Muslims live their lives

I agree.I will be perfectly open with you and admit that I post on your forum under the name "Polious"(Arthur is already aware of this). That forum is the EDL's biggest problem as it attracts all kinds of nuts who will end up destroying it.No sooner do you get rid of one nut job and another pops up,perhaps the same person posting under another name and using a computer at their workplace.A typical example is a poster called "Gurt Wilders" who I was having a conversation with the other day.He couldn't argue with my points so he decided to cut and paste large parts of an article written by an expert on Islam.It turns out the expert was a Jewish professor,hardly the sort of person who's viewpoint is likely to be objective! By having people such as Wilders,who seems intelligent but slightly misguided, you run the risk of attracting braindead morons who then jump in with some inane reply such as "what a load of fucking bollocks" or "UAF cunt" etc.The trouble is these sort of people are unlikely to have mixed with Muslims and get all their information from the tabloid press so its pretty obvious what their viewpoint is going to be.

I also saw a post from a person who claims to represent "Casuals united".In the letter he goes on about about Nazi scum fucking off from our demos and not being welcome.He then talks about a fight outside of a pub in Whitehall with people claiming to be from Combat 18.What is strange about this is that he says we shouldn't be fighting our own kind.Own kind? Well he can speak for himself as I don't condsider Combat 18 to be my "own kind" despite being white.He also speaks about Combat 18 causing damage to the BNP! His letter is one big bunch of contradictions and makes little sense.What is even more disturbing are the comments underneath such as "well said".WTF were they reading? As far as I am aware Casuals United is an organisation that comprises mainly of football hooligans and their website is almost like a mirror of the EDL website.Yes,they do have black guys as members but just because someone is black it dosen't mean they won't join a fascist organisation.Fascism and racism don't always go hand in hand and often different races will unite to fight a common enemy.A typical example of this is the war in Eastern Europe during WW2.The Waffen SS that fought on the Eastern Front was a multiracial organisation that had one common enemy,Communism.It even included a Muslim division.Not all divisions were indoctrinated in Nazi ideology,my father's certainly wasn't,but they all united against a common enemy and put their differences to one side to try and get the job done.Blacks who join the ELD will feel more threatened by Islam than they do from a few white racists so take the route of lesser evil.I know there have been problems in Birmingham between Britsh blacks and Somali Muslims so its not hard to see why the blacks side with the ELD.I recall one elderly black lady saying the Somalis weren't proper blacks and were a war like people so its pretty obvious that people are afraid.I am not saying the EDL is either a fascist or racist organisation but it certainly has some of these peole in its ranks.

But my question is this:What exactly are the EDL's polices? Whilst my comments on Arthur's thread were a bit sarcastic they did hammer home the point that the ELD hasn't got any real polices.Slogans such as "no more mosques" mean little.No more Saudi or Quatar sponsored mosques would be more realistic combined with a demo outside of the Saudi Embassy rather than in the Birmingham Bullring! I do support the ELD on many side issues such as halal meat and the wearing of the niqab but these things have litte effect on our day to day lives.Its difficult to communicate with a person wearing a niqab and halal meat abuses animals rights.These are the reasons I object to these things,its got nothing to do with Islamic extemism.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #67 - November 11, 2009, 04:24 PM

The EDL doesn't have 'policies' as such. It is simply a group formed to highlight a problem for the politicians to sort out. At least that is how I see it. If they (after all, they are the politicians) come up with a set of proposals that address this problem satisfactorily, then the EDL will then diminish (I doubt it would disappear completely ever) to a point of not being relevant. After all, not many people would go on the streets with banners saying 'all fine here' and 'government doing an ok job if not great'.

With regard to the casuals guy I wonder if you can provide a link. It doesn't make sense that he's post that way, though it is possible he was trying to address the c18 in words that they'd understand. I don't know without seeing it.

If you prefer, you can post me the link in private here or even on the EDL forum. Or in public here if you prefer that also.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #68 - November 11, 2009, 05:21 PM

This is a reply Maryam Namazie gave recently to a question about the EDL, on the "One-Law-For-All" website:

We will have nothing to do with the English Defence League

Tony writes on our website: This group should join forces with the English Defence League and help them in their fight against Islamic extremism and Shariah law in the UK.

Maryam Namazie responds: One Law for All will never ever join forces with the English Defence League. As I have said before, the far-right?s version of Britain is not very different from the Islamists? one and we won?t stand for either.

I know the EDL tries to hide its true intentions ? sort of like the BNP claiming not to be racist in order to join the mainstream. But even without a mission statement on its website and with a disclaimer on its forum, it isn?t hard to see that the EDL is a racist organisation.

First off, just their name makes me shudder. English Defence League reveals nationalism, exclusivity, segregation? I think it is very clear who they are ? and are not ? including in their version of ?English.?

And it is also clear who they are from the hooligans and thugs who join their rallies. The EDL says it can?t be blamed for those it attracts but of course it can and it must. Send out right-wing messages of nationalism and ?England for the English? and you will get the racists and fascists doing Nazi salutes and demonising those perceived to be different.

And it is also clear who they are from their tactics, one of which is organising demonstrations in front of mosques and terrorising people passing by or entering. Look, if you are concerned about the political Islamic movement and mosques being funded by Islamic states to promotes Islamism, then by all means demonstrate but why not do it at the Qatar embassy (if you are concerned about the Burnley mosque for example) or for that matter Jack Straw?s office (who is thought to be responsible for the Emir of Qatar?s ?1.5 million gift to the mosque). Yes I am opposed to faith schools but I wouldn?t stand with a group that brings out thugs in front of an Islamic school and threatens children going in who are sent their by their parents?

How you show your opposition is just as important as what you oppose ? if not more.

Clearly, being opposed to Sharia is not nearly enough if it isn?t done within a framework of defending the rights of all and not just the ?English.?

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/about/faq/
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #69 - November 11, 2009, 05:48 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 04:24 PM
The EDL doesn't have 'policies' as such. It is simply a group formed to highlight a problem for the politicians to sort out. At least that is how I see it. If they (after all, they are the politicians) come up with a set of proposals that address this problem satisfactorily, then the EDL will then diminish (I doubt it would disappear completely ever) to a point of not being relevant. After all, not many people would go on the streets with banners saying 'all fine here' and 'government doing an ok job if not great'.

The goverment have to know what your demands are.I think any normal person would want to keep bombers off the streets and the goverment are doing their best to do that.The fact that only one group has suceeded in their mission since 2005 would indicate they are doing a pretty good job.All goverments take the threat of terrorism very seriously.

The threat of full blown Sharia Law being imposed on the UK has been exaggerated as to do that would require an Islamic fundamentalist party gaining a majority in the House of Commons or taking over the country by force.That is a scenario that is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes.But the civil Sharia courts which are already operating in this country need closing down as no form of religous law should be seen as acceptable in this country.So making it EDL policy to get these courts closed down might be a start.Having banners saying "No religous laws" might be a good slogan as not all Muslims are keen about living under the Sharia and many come here to escape it.

Quote
With regard to the casuals guy I wonder if you can provide a link. It doesn't make sense that he's post that way, though it is possible he was trying to address the c18 in words that they'd understand. I don't know without seeing it.

If you prefer, you can post me the link in private here or even on the EDL forum. Or in public here if you prefer that also.

I will send the letter by PM.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #70 - November 11, 2009, 06:43 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 11, 2009, 05:21 PM
This is a reply Maryam Namazie gave recently to a question about the EDL, on the "One-Law-For-All" website:

We will have nothing to do with the English Defence League

Tony writes on our website: This group should join forces with the English Defence League and help them in their fight against Islamic extremism and Shariah law in the UK.

Maryam Namazie responds: One Law for All will never ever join forces with the English Defence League. As I have said before, the far-right?s version of Britain is not very different from the Islamists? one and we won?t stand for either.

I know the EDL tries to hide its true intentions ? sort of like the BNP claiming not to be racist in order to join the mainstream. But even without a mission statement on its website and with a disclaimer on its forum, it isn?t hard to see that the EDL is a racist organisation.

First off, just their name makes me shudder. English Defence League reveals nationalism, exclusivity, segregation? I think it is very clear who they are ? and are not ? including in their version of ?English.?

And it is also clear who they are from the hooligans and thugs who join their rallies. The EDL says it can?t be blamed for those it attracts but of course it can and it must. Send out right-wing messages of nationalism and ?England for the English? and you will get the racists and fascists doing Nazi salutes and demonising those perceived to be different.

And it is also clear who they are from their tactics, one of which is organising demonstrations in front of mosques and terrorising people passing by or entering. Look, if you are concerned about the political Islamic movement and mosques being funded by Islamic states to promotes Islamism, then by all means demonstrate but why not do it at the Qatar embassy (if you are concerned about the Burnley mosque for example) or for that matter Jack Straw?s office (who is thought to be responsible for the Emir of Qatar?s ?1.5 million gift to the mosque). Yes I am opposed to faith schools but I wouldn?t stand with a group that brings out thugs in front of an Islamic school and threatens children going in who are sent their by their parents?

How you show your opposition is just as important as what you oppose ? if not more.

Clearly, being opposed to Sharia is not nearly enough if it isn?t done within a framework of defending the rights of all and not just the ?English.?

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/about/faq/

Well I guess you choose your allies carefully, and obviously I accept your right to ally with whoever you see fit.

I did consider this a golden opportunity to really break down some barriers. And I don't mean breaking down in the politically correct middle class kind of way, I mean in a real way in a meeting of the real people. Not just a 'forced tolerance' but a real camaraderie and friendship.

Still, all women reserve the right to change their minds as far as I know, so there is hope yet.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #71 - November 11, 2009, 06:48 PM

You may find difficulty in recruiting amongst ex-muslims, as many of us are liberal freethinkers - one of the reasons we left religion in the first place.

So if you are trying to recruit some of us into a right wing flag-waving nationalists, it ain't going to happen.

Also I dont understand the premise of your stance - do you really believe UK parliament is going to sign up to shariah law?

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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #72 - November 11, 2009, 06:49 PM

Quote from: Tony on November 11, 2009, 05:48 PM
The threat of full blown Sharia Law being imposed on the UK has been exaggerated as to do that would require an Islamic fundamentalist party gaining a majority in the House of Commons or taking over the country by force.That is a scenario that is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes.But the civil Sharia courts which are already operating in this country need closing down as no form of religous law should be seen as acceptable in this country.So making it EDL policy to get these courts closed down might be a start.Having banners saying "No religous laws" might be a good slogan as not all Muslims are keen about living under the Sharia and many come here to escape it.

I personally feel that sharia law needs to be completely stamped out. There is no place for it in the UK.

The problem lies in that islamic law allows for multiple wives (among other things) and UK law does not. If we force people to fall under UK law, then we are forcing them to go against their own religion. This is a very tricky situation to be in. A lose lose if you will.

However, it has to be addressed. I don't care how they sort it, they have got to sort it.

Of course, I merely state my own opinion on that. There are others within EDL who have very clear ideas on what the goals of the EDL must be. Personally, I don't think they understand the full complexity of it all.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #73 - November 11, 2009, 06:53 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 11, 2009, 05:21 PM
This is a reply Maryam Namazie gave recently to a question about the EDL, on the "One-Law-For-All" website:

...I know the EDL tries to hide its true intentions ? sort of like the BNP claiming not to be racist in order to join the mainstream. But even without a mission statement on its website and with a disclaimer on its forum, it isn?t hard to see that the EDL is a racist organisation.

First off, just their name makes me shudder. English Defence League reveals nationalism, exclusivity, segregation? I think it is very clear who they are ? and are not ? including in their version of ?English.?url]

See, that's exactly what she's got wrong. The English Defence Leage's vision of Englishness is one that is accessible to people of all races and religions, which is what has got the far-right so mad at us. Inclusive patriotism. It's the way to take the frustration that feeds into BNP recruitment and the like and turn it to something positive. EDL even welcomes immigrants who can never themselves feel properly English since they're not as long as they support the cause. That's me, I'm not English, in case you hadn't guessed from my screen name. It's exactly the opposite of segregation.
Multiculturalism is what really leads to the segregation of communities in their own little ghettos. I don't know how you feel about Trevor Phillips, and he is admittedly quite corrupt, but I'm a huge fan of the things he's said on the subject. Both about the failings of multiculturalism and about the need for people in general and Muslims in particular to accept that in a free society, you may well be offended by some things, and you have to deal with it.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #74 - November 11, 2009, 06:53 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 06:48 PM
You may find difficulty in recruiting amongst ex-muslims, as many of us are liberal freethinkers - one of the reasons we left religion in the first place.

So if you are trying to recruit some of us into a right wing flag-waving nationalists, it ain't going to happen.

Also I dont understand the premise of your stance - do you really believe UK parliament is going to sign up to shariah law?

Ah you misunderstand my presence here mate. No I am not on a recruitment mission. I merely wish to build bridges and find out from your perspective as ex muslims about how you see the EDL and what perhaps we could do to improve the image, and you know, just a general chit chat with what I see as ideological allies (admittedly in a very limited capacity).

Think of it as the internet equivalent of calling round the neighbours for a cup of tea

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #75 - November 11, 2009, 06:58 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 06:48 PM
You may find difficulty in recruiting amongst ex-muslims, as many of us are liberal freethinkers - one of the reasons we left religion in the first place.

So if you are trying to recruit some of us into a right wing flag-waving nationalists, it ain't going to happen.

Also I dont understand the premise of your stance - do you really believe UK parliament is going to sign up to shariah law?

If the answers no to this question, can you explain what you stand for? Kind of hard to start taking you seriously and without suspicion, until you have at least told us what you stand for?

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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #76 - November 11, 2009, 07:00 PM

Quote
I did consider this a golden opportunity to really break down some barriers. And I don't mean breaking down in the politically correct middle class kind of way, I mean in a real way in a meeting of the real people. Not just a 'forced tolerance' but a real camaraderie and friendship

It might still happen if a few members of the EDL go to her demonstration and introduce themselves.I think the EDL's current image has more to do with it being composed mainly of football supporters who like chanting and waving flags.If support became more broader based I am sure this psuedo right-wing image would diminish.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #77 - November 11, 2009, 07:00 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 06:43 PM
Well I guess you choose your allies carefully, and obviously I accept your right to ally with whoever you see fit.

I did consider this a golden opportunity to really break down some barriers. And I don't mean breaking down in the politically correct middle class kind of way, I mean in a real way in a meeting of the real people. Not just a 'forced tolerance' but a real camaraderie and friendship.

Still, all women reserve the right to change their minds as far as I know, so there is hope yet.

Well it's nothing personal of course - you and FrredomFry and Arthur appear to be very decent chaps and I personally would have no problem welcoming you at the Nov 21st Rally - so long as you come as individuals and not in an official capacity.

But Maryam and the CEMB are absolutely right to be very wary of EDL until our fears are proven baseless - and not by words - but on the ground.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #78 - November 11, 2009, 07:03 PM

I would actually quite like to come down on the 21st and see how you guys and the onelawforall campaign do things, and maybe meet a few people like on the 31st.

Wouldn't bring the whole crew of course. Maybe just one or two guys who are also curious.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #79 - November 11, 2009, 07:10 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 06:49 PM
I personally feel that sharia law needs to be completely stamped out. There is no place for it in the UK

Everyone here of course agrees with you. I think what IsLame was getting at is that many of your members may have a rather exaggerated and irrational fear that Shari'ah is in serious danger of being imposed, fully and across the board in UK.

It is of course not.

Our 21st Rally is not simply about opposing the small, limited and voluntary courts that exist in a few places in the UK - but also opposing the much greater and more serious problem of Shari'ah being imposed fully on people in the Muslim world where - as I think you rightly point out - Muslims are the greatest victims of the Islamists.

You see this is the basic difference between EDL and our "One Law for All" campaign - we are not coming at this from a narrow nationalist angle but a universal Human Rights angle.

Of course it doesn't mean we cannot stand together on this issue. But for the moment at least we remain very wary of the EDL until our fears are proven false.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #80 - November 11, 2009, 07:16 PM

Pdbedl wrote
Quote
I personally feel that sharia law needs to be completely stamped out. There is no place for it in the UK.

I agree entirely and that is why I said these civil Sharia courts should be abolished.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #81 - November 11, 2009, 07:20 PM

How do we get past the complexities of allowing people their religion yet making sure that the law is equal for all?

I'm starting to think you guys are even better than I at first thought

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #82 - November 11, 2009, 07:26 PM

Quote from: Tony on November 11, 2009, 07:16 PM
Pdbedl wrote
I agree entirely and that is why I said these civil Sharia courts should be abolished.

Indeed!

I just sometimes wonder how many of the ordinary EDL members realise that when they oppose these courts they are defending the Pakistanis, Somalis, and many other ethnic minorities - particularly the women amongst them, who are actually the ones suffering from these courts.

If they do realise that - then good on them

Though I suspect many of them confuse the rants of Anjem Choudhury about imposing Shari'ah on the UK (that have no basis in reality) with these limited and voluntary courts. (Particularly as Anjem calls himself 'Judge of Shariah Court' - tho that is a court that exists in his imagination only)
- pdbedl
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #83 - November 11, 2009, 07:30 PM

From what I know about the EDL membership and the people I have personally spoken with, the vast majority of them feel that they are more protecting the rights of muslim women than anything else.

They do know they are also protecting gays etc, but from what I know the predominant force behind the EDL membership is concern for muslim women.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #84 - November 11, 2009, 07:30 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 07:20 PM
How do we get past the complexities of allowing people their religion yet making sure that the law is equal for all?

I'm starting to think you guys are even better than I at first thought

That what we call Secularism. Freedom of religion - yes - but it is a private matter and has no place in the public domain.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #85 - November 11, 2009, 07:32 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 07:30 PM
From what I know about the EDL membership and the people I have personally spoken with, the vast majority of them feel that they are more protecting the rights of muslim women than anything else.

They do know they are also protecting gays etc, but from what I know the predominant force behind the EDL membership is concern for muslim women.

That's good to hear.
- FreedomFry
- EDL
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #86 - November 11, 2009, 07:34 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 07:30 PM
They do know they are also protecting gays etc, but from what I know the predominant force behind the EDL membership is concern for muslim women.

On the particular issue of sharia courts, mind. That is the motivation there.

I think the overall main motivation is more frustration with what seems to government appeasement to the demands of the extremists that their religion be immune from criticism, and that they not have to ever see or hear anything which 'offends' them.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #87 - November 11, 2009, 07:36 PM

Quote from: FreedomFry on November 11, 2009, 07:03 PM
I would actually quite like to come down on the 21st and see how you guys and the onelawforall campaign do things, and maybe meet a few people like on the 31st.

Wouldn't bring the whole crew of course. Maybe just one or two guys who are also curious.

As I say I am speaking personally and not officially, but I would have no problem with individuals like yourself attending. Though I would be a bit concerned if a crowd draped in huge flags started marching towards us - for a start Maryam would give me a slap and say this was all my fault
- FreedomFry
- EDL
- Member
- offline
Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #88 - November 11, 2009, 07:38 PM

Haha I'll leave the crowd at home. Don't want you to get slapped. But seriously do you think I should get in touch with her, or just come down on the day with maybe one or two others?
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #89 - November 11, 2009, 07:49 PM

I would say that so long as it's just you and a couple of friends and you are not coming in an official EDL capacity, (or with flags, chanting "En-ger-land, En-ger-land, En-ger-land" lol etc...) then it should be no problem just turning up. But if you are uncertain then by all means contact Maryam and tell her you have spoken to me (Hassan).

This is Maryam's published email:

maryamnamazie@googlemail.com

Website:

http://www.maryamnamazie.com/

Blog:

http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/

The contact info for the one law for all campaign is:
BM Box 2387
London WC1N 3XX, UK
Tel: +44 (0) 7719166731
onelawforall@gmail.com
http://www.onelawforall.org.uk
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