Hello from EDL

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- pdbedl
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #90 - November 11, 2009, 07:58 PM

btw I didn't know this was her organisation, but I have seen videos etc of her before and consider her a wonderful woman, I am a great admirer of hers. If you wouldn't mind passing that on.

Yes, anybody 'from' EDL if attending this demo needs to take off their EDL cap (at least for the actual demo) and put on their one law for all cap and support it in the same way any other demonstrator on the day supports it.

Obviously, while chatting etc people will mention their affiliations, that's only natural.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Jack Torrance
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #91 - November 11, 2009, 08:09 PM

Why don't you just wear a jumper or something over a T shirt, then when you feel things are cordial enough, remove the sweater to reveal an 'EDL -CEMB Alliance 2009' , you know, just for a laugh

Ha Ha.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #92 - November 11, 2009, 08:11 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 07:30 PM
From what I know about the EDL membership and the people I have personally spoken with, the vast majority of them feel that they are more protecting the rights of muslim women than anything else.

They do know they are also protecting gays etc, but from what I know the predominant force behind the EDL membership is concern for muslim women.

Bullshit - are you saying your membership is made up out of concern for Somali immigrant women. Or are they just after a cause that they can unite behind the flag and sing the national anthem to the tune of 'they're coming over here and changing all our laws', which is ringing in my ears.

We all know there is no chance of Shariah Law being implemented in the Houses of Parliament. There is no chance of Islam taking over the country. Look at the stats, muslims make up less than 5% of the population - with inter-marriage & apostacy this figure willbcome smaller & smaller by each generation. Also I am extremely dubious about your 70-30% stat - I suspect the level of racism in your flanks is far higher than you are making out. If you're agenda was anti-religion then I would be behind you 100% - but you take on a nationalist agenda by your name alone and is demonstated by your extreme reticence to drop it.

Its the same reason you have no mission statement - how can you? Your's & Arthur's agenda is different from the rest of the membership and you woud never see come to agreement on anything other than empty 'no to shariah law' noises. Change the name of the party to British Secular Party and I'll jump on board - until then I'm out.

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- arthur1
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #93 - November 11, 2009, 08:16 PM

Hi all, I've just read the 6 pages and this sounds like a really productive thread, quite interesting. Nice one.
arthur.
- pdbedl
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #94 - November 11, 2009, 08:24 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
Bullshit

Short, to the point.

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
are you saying your membership is made up out of concern for Somali immigrant women. Or are they just after a cause that they can unite behind the flag and sing the national anthem to the tune of 'they're coming over here and changing all our laws', which is ringing in my ears.

Nobody mentioned Somali women. Just muslim women in general. Rightly or wrongly, it is the perception we have that muslim women are very harshly treated under sharia.

I don't know that particular song, so can't comment.

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
Also I am extremely dubious about your 70-30% stat - I suspect the level of racism in your flanks is far higher than you are making out.

Well you could be right, it was a guesstimate as I said. It is of course based on my personal experience within EDL both on the internet and in real life. What are you basing your suspicions on?

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
If you're agenda was anti-religion then I would be behind you 100%

That is not our agenda. We fully support peoples right to follow whatever faith they desire, or not. We believe that people should be able to do this freely and without any form of persecution whatsoever.

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
Change the name of the party to British Secular Party and I'll jump on board - until then I'm out.

I explained on page one of this thread why the name wouldn't change mate.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- pdbedl
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #95 - November 11, 2009, 08:25 PM

Quote from: arthur1 on November 11, 2009, 08:16 PM
Hi all, I've just read the 6 pages and this sounds like a really productive thread, quite interesting. Nice one.
arthur.

Hi Arthur.

I wondered when you'd find this thread

Was gonna message you to tell you it was here but I was more curious how long it would take you

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- pdbedl
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #96 - November 11, 2009, 08:28 PM

Quote from: Jack Torrance on November 11, 2009, 08:09 PM
Why don't you just wear a jumper or something over a T shirt, then when you feel things are cordial enough, remove the sweater to reveal an 'EDL -CEMB Alliance 2009' , you know, just for a laugh

far too many initials mate, there has to be a rude anagram in there somewhere

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #97 - November 11, 2009, 08:43 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 07:58 PM
btw I didn't know this was her organisation

Really? Well here's the launch of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain in 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM4upL4Gr4Y
- pdbedl
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #98 - November 11, 2009, 09:17 PM

I'm very glad there are people like her in the world. There is hope yet.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- FreedomFry
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #99 - November 11, 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
Bullshit - are you saying your membership is made up out of concern for Somali immigrant women. O

I explained this. The main concern about Sharia courts is of course that it oppresses Muslims who living in Britain and should thus have access to the full range of rights and freedoms available to everyone else. That sentiment motivates people in the EDL to oppose the operation of Sharia law even if only for Muslims in the UK. However it is not the main motivating force behind the EDL, and I don't think pdb meant to claim that.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #100 - November 11, 2009, 10:18 PM

So I am yet to understand what your main motivating force is? What do you stand for? I dont get it

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- pdbedl
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #101 - November 11, 2009, 10:19 PM

Ah right I see why he said bullshit now.

No if you look at my post about muslim women it was directly after Hassan was talking about sharia. I don't think this forum system lets you quote the previous post (or it might but I can't seem to work it out) so I could quote the direct bit I was responding to.

What I meant was that from the people I've spoken to with regard to sharia law, they feel it is oppressive to women, muslim women, and that is the number one reason why they oppose sharia.

There are aspects of sharia that would no doubt appeal to some more right wing members of EDL, but the oppression of women makes the rest of it utterly worthless.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #102 - November 11, 2009, 10:26 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 10:18 PM
So I am yet to understand what your main motivating force is? What do you stand for? I dont get it

I'll answer from a personal standpoint.

I detest the fact that radical islamics wish to force their religion onto others, and force it under pain of death. They have made some progress into having a lot of things accepted and if you draw a line from that then it is only a matter of time where they will have sufficient power to have their wishes. So, it must be stopped, the earlier the better. And fully stopped so it never becomes a threat again.

If someone wants to be muslim, that should be allowed, if someone wants to change religion, that also should be allowed regardless of from what to what.

Sharia law is creeping in to law in this country, it is barbaric and must immediately be stopped. 100% stopped. The calling for sharia must be made illegal and anyone practicing it must be dealt very harshly under the criminal justice system.

People should be able to follow whatever religion they wish. Without having to worry about what anybody else thinks of them, so long as the pursuit of that religion doesn't affect other people in a negative way.

Ok, I've only typed this up quickly before I go to bed, but it is the general gist of my own personal beliefs with regard to EDL.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #103 - November 11, 2009, 10:32 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 10:19 PM
What I meant was that from the people I've spoken to with regard to sharia law, they feel it is oppressive to women, muslim women, and that is the number one reason why they oppose sharia.

There are aspects of sharia that would no doubt appeal to some more right wing members of EDL, but the oppression of women makes the rest of it utterly worthless.

Agreed Shariah is bad, blah blah blah (you're preaching to the converted here). But there no chance of the parliament adopting shariah law, we all know there is no threat. Even many muslims pay lip service to it, let along ex-muslims let alone the public at large. So its not a cause anyone is going to get excited about here.

You might as well protest against banning alcohol next, because muslims want that, and the government are about to pass that act through too
How about secularisation - thats a better policy but you dont believe in that do you?

So what are you really patrolling the streets for? To stop any further concessions being made to minorities Put this up as a poll on your forum, I wonder if it will be a landslide result?

Quote
Penned into a pub by police, the demonstrators chanted ?Allah, allah, who the ---- is allah??

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6284184/The-English-Defence-League-will-the-flames-of-hatred-spread.html

So what really do you stand for?

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #104 - November 11, 2009, 10:35 PM

I texted Maryam about this thread and I have to say to the EDL members here that I have just heard back from her and I will simply quote the txt message itself:

"Thanks - none of them r allowed. I will personally throw them out. They have to leave edl before they can join us."
- pdbedl
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #105 - November 11, 2009, 10:42 PM

Fair enough Hassan

Well it's been a pleasure sir. I note you have an account on the EDL forum, hopefully you'll pop in there from time to time. Until then.

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing the attempt - William Shakespeare
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #106 - November 11, 2009, 10:43 PM

Quote from: pdbedl on November 11, 2009, 10:26 PM
I'll answer from a personal standpoint.

I detest the fact that radical islamics wish to force their religion onto others, and force it under pain of death. They have made some progress into having a lot of things accepted and if you draw a line from that then it is only a matter of time where they will have sufficient power to have their wishes. So, it must be stopped, the earlier the better. And fully stopped so it never becomes a threat again.

If someone wants to be muslim, that should be allowed, if someone wants to change religion, that also should be allowed regardless of from what to what.

Sharia law is creeping in to law in this country, it is barbaric and must immediately be stopped. 100% stopped. The calling for sharia must be made illegal and anyone practicing it must be dealt very harshly under the criminal justice system.

People should be able to follow whatever religion they wish. Without having to worry about what anybody else thinks of them, so long as the pursuit of that religion doesn't affect other people in a negative way.

Ok, I've only typed this up quickly before I go to bed, but it is the general gist of my own personal beliefs with regard to EDL.

Then why call yourselves the English Defence League - if you are a one policy party you should be called 'anti-shariah law league' - its not happening anyway so its a pointless party. My guess is that it is called EDL to drum up the nationalist support amongst the football moronic hooligan types, so you have a base. Now your only problem is keeping them in check, whilst also trying to be taken seriously. Thats where we come in. Having 'darkies' like us in your squad counteracts the skinhead effect.

Look if you are looking for right winged nationalists then this is the wrong place. Maryam Namazie is a staunch socialist, and most of us here are liberals and believe in countries without borders. Do you guys? What are your views on more immigration (please do a poll on that too)!

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #107 - November 11, 2009, 10:44 PM

Again it is nothing personal - but no doubt due to her deep suspicion of the EDL - a suspicion I do share even though I do believe you and the others here are very genuine.

Take care - and I will try and pop in.
- Saif Rahman
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #108 - November 11, 2009, 10:46 PM

Sorry to see you go PDL - my post below was written before I saw Maryam's comment. I dont agree with you posts, but I believe you should still be allowed here.

Take care

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- cosmicdancer
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #109 - November 11, 2009, 10:48 PM

Quote from: IsLame on November 11, 2009, 10:46 PM
Sorry to see you go PDL - my post below was written before I saw Maryam's comment. I dont agree with you posts, but I believe you should still be allowed here.

Take care

Maryam was talking about the Rally NOT the forum - of course they can still post on the forum if they wish.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #110 - November 11, 2009, 10:51 PM

Just in case I didn't make it clear - Maryam was talking about EDL members at the RALLY and NOT the Forum - you are welcome to contribute to the forum.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #111 - November 11, 2009, 11:07 PM

Quote from: Hassan on November 11, 2009, 10:35 PM
I texted Maryam about this thread and I have to say to the EDL members here that I have just heard back from her and I will simply quote the txt message itself:

"Thanks - none of them r allowed. I will personally throw them out. They have to leave edl before they can join us."

Well that's a damn shame. That's not just distrust or suspicion, that's vicious hostility which I find both puzzling and depressing. I do hope she gets a chance to read this thread and will change her mind, not necessarily about the EDL even but just on this particular issue. I don't know if that's at all likely, as I said I'm already more than a little thrown by the hate coming through there.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #112 - November 11, 2009, 11:13 PM

Damn - you could have timed it better Hass, it does not look like they're gonna answer my post now

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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #113 - November 11, 2009, 11:27 PM

Quote from: FreedomFry on November 11, 2009, 11:07 PM
Well that's a damn shame. That's not just distrust or suspicion, that's vicious hostility which I find both puzzling and depressing. I do hope she gets a chance to read this thread and will change her mind, not necessarily about the EDL even but just on this particular issue. I don't know if that's at all likely, as I said I'm already more than a little thrown by the hate coming through there.

No, it's not about hate, but about the image that EDL have.

I texted Maryam that I thought that you guys posting on the forum were genuine in your stance against racism and far-right politics and she said that you would be welcome to join us - but not as EDL.

So it is simply that EDL have an image problem that they have yet to prove is not true and I guess words on an internet forum will not change that. That will take action on the ground.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #114 - November 12, 2009, 12:23 AM

If that's the whole text that's not what it sounds like to me. Sounds damn hostile. We were never planning on coming down with flags and banners etc. and I think we were pretty clear about that. Wanted to have a day being onelawforall folks and see what you lot get up to. After all you're presenting an alternate way of dealing with what we both think is a problem (and are actually really approaching it from a different perspective) and it makes sense to see how you think we should be doing it and what you think we should be standing for. Would also of course be an opportunity to chat with people and hopefully convince a few we're not far-right demons. But it sounds like if I even mention that I'm also part of EDL i'd be asking to get thrown out.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #115 - November 12, 2009, 12:39 AM

Freedonfry,have a word privately with PDBEDL about a link I sent him and you will see that Maryam's concerns are valid.I thought she was over reacting but this revelation has shown me that the EDL has members who are even more dangerous than Anjem Choudary.If we aren't careful the EDL will become a recruitng sergeant for Al Quaeda.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #116 - November 12, 2009, 12:49 AM

tony i find that hard to believe but i will ask him about it or you can send it to me
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #117 - November 12, 2009, 12:51 AM

Hi Tony, any chance I can get this link.
cheers arthur.
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #118 - November 12, 2009, 01:50 AM

It's like this-- the main activists and leadership of the EDL are nationalist and lean right, the main activists and leadership of the CEMB are internationalist and lean left. So, yeah, that's the problem.

While it might be nice to think everyone can unite in a coalition around a single issue, that's not how it works. Fundamental differences in worldview/ideology can and do preclude or break a coalition around a single issue on which all parties strongly agree.

The best one can hope for is that the rank-and-file of both organizations maintain a cordial and non-adversarial relationship, and, if a broader coalition develops, that both groups will refrain from boycotting each other.

Personally I oppose both organizations as I will never submit to spelling color with a "u", calling soccer "football", and not tipping my bartenders.

fuck you
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Re: Hello from EDL
Reply #119 - November 12, 2009, 07:16 AM

Quote from: FreedomFry on November 12, 2009, 12:23 AM
If that's the whole text that's not what it sounds like to me. Sounds damn hostile. We were never planning on coming down with flags and banners etc. and I think we were pretty clear about that. Wanted to have a day being onelawforall folks and see what you lot get up to. After all you're presenting an alternate way of dealing with what we both think is a problem (and are actually really approaching it from a different perspective) and it makes sense to see how you think we should be doing it and what you think we should be standing for. Would also of course be an opportunity to chat with people and hopefully convince a few we're not far-right demons. But it sounds like if I even mention that I'm also part of EDL i'd be asking to get thrown out.

Well I obviously could not text Maryam the whole thread in a couple of texts so she may have misunderstood.

At the end of the day an internet forum is not really the best way to approach this and I do suggest contacting Maryam and speaking to her directly as I believe she wouldn't have a problem with you as individuals joining us.

I think the problem as far as the EDL itself is concerned is this: Rightly or wrongly the "right-wing racist" tag is still applied to the EDL by very many people and since Maryam has worked hard to gain a broad-base of support for the "One Law For All" I suspect, she is very concerned not to upset that support by being seen to ally herself to an organisation with such a tag.

Now I said, rightly or wrongly. The point is that no mainstream activists, politicians etc will want to have anything to do with you until you are able to completely shed that tag.

That is what she was reacting to in the text - not you as individuals.

Again I say it would be best to speak to her direct - especially now as I have said you have been on the forum and I told her I believe you are genuine in what you say.
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