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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned. Do you agree?
  • Yes. - 64 (79%)
  • No. - 17 (21%)
  • Total Voters: 80

 Topic: Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.

 (Read 67813 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 4 5 67 8 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #150 - February 08, 2013, 12:35 AM

    Babies can't remember the trauma of things that early in their life.

    You could say the same about FGM.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #151 - February 08, 2013, 12:38 AM

    FGM is the destruction of a sexual organ. Foreskin is very minor in function.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #152 - February 08, 2013, 12:40 AM

    I'm not sure it's a useful argument. Since a lot of both circumcised and non-circumcised men, and their partners, seem to enjoy sex, I think you'll have a hard time getting any traction with arguments that rely on subjective assessments of enjoyment.


    It would be very interesting to see what the opinion of someone who had foreskin and then had it removed, would say about the subjective sexual experience. Wouldn't be definitive, but could help to bring some perspective to the issue.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #153 - February 08, 2013, 12:43 AM

    FGM is the destruction of a sexual organ. Foreskin is very minor in function.

    MGM is the destruction of a sexual organ. Clitoral hood is very minor in function.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #154 - February 08, 2013, 12:48 AM

    MGM is the destruction of a sexual organ. Clitoral hood is very minor in function.


    From wiki:

    "The WHO has offered four classifications of FGM. The main three are Type I, removal of the clitoral hood, almost invariably accompanied by removal of the clitoris itself (clitoridectomy); Type II, removal of the clitoris and inner labia; and Type III (infibulation), removal of all or part of the inner and outer labia, and usually the clitoris, and the fusion of the wound, leaving a small hole for the passage of urine and menstrual blood—the fused wound is opened for intercourse and childbirth.[4] Around 85 percent of women who undergo FGM experience Types I and II, and 15 percent Type III, though Type III is the most common procedure in several countries, including Sudan, Somalia, and Djibouti.[5] Several miscellaneous acts are categorized as Type IV. These range from a symbolic pricking or piercing of the clitoris or labia, to cauterization of the clitoris, cutting into the vagina to widen it (gishiri cutting), and introducing corrosive substances to tighten it.[4]"

    So it's not that straightforward. Male circumcision on the other hand is a standardized practice, performed by competent doctors in the West. Comparing apples and oranges really.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #155 - February 08, 2013, 12:50 AM

    Babies can't remember the trauma of things that early in their life.


    Babies can't consent to things that early in life either.  That, on its own, should stop any responsible parent in their tracks before performing any medically unnecessary and irreversible surgery on their infant child. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #156 - February 08, 2013, 12:56 AM

    So it's not that straightforward.

    How is it not straightforward? If we are discussing the wrongness of FGM, how does having different types of FGM affect the wrongness? Are some types more acceptable to you?

    Male circumcision on the other hand is a standardized practice, performed by competent doctors in the West. Comparing apples and oranges really.

    Compare them in principle, then. Which is what everyone else is doing.

    If FGM was a standardized practice performed by "competent doctors in the West" would this add anything whatsoever to its merit as a practice?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #157 - February 08, 2013, 01:32 AM

    If FGM was a standardized practice performed by "competent doctors in the West" would this add anything whatsoever to its merit as a practice?


    It isn't though, so I don't need to make such a murky ethical comparison.

    In any case I'm not interested in defending male circumcision as a practice in and of itself. I just think comparing it to FGM is a fallacious analogy, and those who do it aren't some sort of inhuman child abusers.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #158 - February 08, 2013, 01:37 AM

    It isn't though, so I don't need to make such a murky ethical comparison.

    Or because it reveals the double standard, and it wasn't murky at all but quite plain and simple.

    In any case I'm not interested in defending male circumcision as a practice in and of itself. I just think comparing it to FGM is a fallacious analogy, and those who do it aren't some sort of inhuman child abusers.

    How can it be a fallacious analogy when every element in play transfers so completely between both?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #159 - February 08, 2013, 02:05 AM

    children are not slaves, and they are not property of their parents. You can't ask a baby whether they want their foreskin or not, especially when it is an IRREVERSIBLE change. Clearly, it's utterly and disgracefully wrong.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #160 - February 08, 2013, 08:49 AM

    Ummmm..
    Hypotheticaly, is it wrong to circumcised my senile old parents that's under my supervision/guardianship?
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #161 - February 08, 2013, 12:12 PM

    Yup, I would say it is, no different to if it was a child.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #162 - February 08, 2013, 12:42 PM

    Let us take this step by step.

    Is it OK to cut bits of babies?  Tips of ears, ends of toes, tips of noses?  End of tongues?

    Is it OK to tattoo babies?

    Foot binding?

    Stretching necks?

    Is the foreskin just a bit of skin?  (Go to site for more info)
    http://www.circumstitions.com/Functions.html
    Quote
    20 Functions of the Foreskin

    This list is intended to be exhaustive (including all functions, no matter how trivial, just as the most trivial of reasons to circumcise is taken seriously), in descending order of importance in each section.
    Sexual
    1
    Erotic pleasure, especially via the ridged band and Meissner's corpuscles
    2
    Acts as a rolling bearing in intercourse and masturbation
    3
    Prevents dyspareunia (painful intercourse)
    4
    Stimulates partner's genitalia, giving erotic pleasure
    5
    Supplies skin to cover the shaft in erection and prevent tightness
    6
    Stores pheromones and releases them on arousal
    7
    Stores, releases and helps distribute natural lubricants ("smega" and pre-ejaculatory fluid)
    8
    Makes the glans a visual signal of sexual arousal
    9
    Provides a seal against the vaginal wall to contain semen
    Protective
    10
    Prevents the glans becoming keratinised, and keeps it soft and moist
    11
    Protects the thin-skinned glans against injury
    But you know what happened to me when I was 10 years old? I was playing on a playground and slipped down a wet slide backwards. I landed facedown at the bottom. The ground was covered in rocks there from someone who had dumped a pile at the bottom of the slide. I scratched up my legs and stomach and tore my penis skin. It was hanging almost from a strand. The doctor made sure it was clean and sealed it with glue. Do you know what he said to me? He said, "If you were missing your foreskin, you would be having cosmetic surgery right now." My penis skin saved me from surgery!
    - LK, aged 13 on The Daily Guggie Daly, Februrary 1, 2011
    12
    Protects the nerves of the glans, retaining their erotic function
    13
    In infancy, protects the urethra against contamination, meatal stenosis, (and UTIs?)
    14
    Provides lysosomes for bacteriostatic action around the glans
    15
    Pigmented, it protects the unpigmented glans against sunburn
    16
    Vascular (rich in blood vessels that bring heat to the tissues), it protects the less vascular glans against frostbite, as Sir Ranulph Fiennes found on his epic transpolar walk.
    Other
    17
    Provides skin for grafts to burnt eyelids, reconstructive surgery, etc.
    18
    "The foreskin is important embryologically in the formation of the end of the penis and the urethra. If there is no foreskin the urethral opening is not at the end of the penis where it should be, but somewhere on the underside of the penis (hypospadius [sic])." - Dr Edgar Schoen (!) (but he claims that is its only function)
    19
    Holds absorbant tissue in place after urethral surgery, in case of minimal incontinence, etc.
    20
    Holds semen after masturbating until it can be disposed of. Comedian Joe Diaz describes doing so here (3:55 NSFW).
    21
    Holds M&Ms in a "pouch-off" (contest to see whose holds the most). (NSFW)
    22
    Conceals notes. "Members of the IRA were known to hide notes under their foreskins when incarcerated"
    - Richard English, Armed Struggle (2004) 200-201 quoted in Non-Therapeutic Male Circumcision, Issues Paper No 14, 2009, Tasmania Law Reform Institute
    23
    Stores contact lenses, keys, drugs, smuggled jewels, etc. - not all recommended uses ...
    Wilts and Gloucestershire Standard
    April 8, 2008
    Dealer hid heroin in his foreskin


    Now what precisely were your reasons for doing it?

    Is this not  serious child physical and sexual abuse, otherwise known as pedophilia and gbh and worth at least a ten year prison sentence?  Oh but I am an extremist, who was cut as a baby....

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #163 - February 08, 2013, 04:14 PM

    I still have an instinctive ew reaction to the thought of an uncircumcised cock vomit


    Circumcised or not, it is not very pretty is it ?

    I had a colleague once whose mother, according to my colleague said, that if you gave it four legs, it would be the ugliest animal on earth LOL.

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #164 - February 08, 2013, 04:23 PM

    ^  Interesting argument.

    And welcome back, Paloma.  Smiley


    Thank you Teapot.

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #165 - February 08, 2013, 04:27 PM

    I'm not sure it's a useful argument. Since a lot of both circumcised and non-circumcised men, and their partners, seem to enjoy sex, I think you'll have a hard time getting any traction with arguments that rely on subjective assessments of enjoyment.


    It probably isn´t and I didnt think it would be. Just thought it was interesting and I hadn´t heard it before, so just thought I would put it up there for what it was worth.  Smiley

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #166 - February 08, 2013, 04:48 PM

    The soundest argument I can see is that of informed consent.  Whatever the arguments for or against on the grounds of health, religious freedom, etc, none of them provide arguments for circimcision at infancy.  What's wrong with waiting until the boy is over the age of consent and old enough to make decisions about his own foreskin?


    I agree and so did the doctor actually. He didn´t advocate a ban on circumcision, but thought it should be postponed until the age of informed consent. The only answer the rabbi had to the 18 years old suggestion was, can´t you imagine how different it is to have it done when you are a newborn baby and when you are 18 years old ? Yes we can and the result would probably be, that most people would choose not to have it done. That is most likely what they fear. The rabbi said, that circumcision was so important to their identity as Jews, that despite the fact, that only about 10-15% of the Danish Jews were religious, 90% of them chose to have their baby boys circumcised.

    One of the participants suggested that the penis was given only a small symbolic prick with a needle and all the other rituals surrounding circumcision were maintained. When that was rejected, she suggested that only a tiny slice of the foreskin was cut off, but no the rabbi was adamant, the glans had to be exposed.

    The last one to get up before the meeting was adjourned was a middle aged Dane, who railed passionately about nobody knowing what they talked about. Circumcised men didn´t know what it was like to be uncircumcised and uncircumcised men didn´know what it was like to be circumcised, but I know he said and I can tell you it is horrible !

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #167 - February 09, 2013, 07:53 PM

    Even if my parents hadn't circumcised me, I would have probably gotten circumsized due to personal choice and cuz it would look better (in my opinion).

    This is my position on it.


    Just like with getting tattoos, circumcision should only be allowed when the child reaches the age of consent.

    *ONLY exception should be for medical reasons. 

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #168 - February 09, 2013, 11:22 PM

    On babies forgetting it, how is it that removing a huge amount of very sensitive nerves allegedly has no effects on brain development, balance, ability to learn to be gentle....?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #169 - February 09, 2013, 11:28 PM

    I got circumcised and it never affected me in any negative way what so ever.

    HOWEVER circumcision still carries the risks of inflicting harm on a baby and since it is an unnecessary procedure it should NOT be allowed until the person has reached the age of consent.

    The same as with tattoos.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #170 - February 09, 2013, 11:29 PM

    I have heard that it can permanently alter the brain, cause it causes a lack of trust and bonding with the mother I have heard it might have negative impacts later on in relationships with the other sex.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #171 - February 10, 2013, 01:37 AM

    Hey brainwave. Let's ban medically unnecessary, non-consensual genitals. Solve all these problems at one go. bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #172 - February 10, 2013, 02:52 AM

    I would vote for senile ol' parent to be circumcised for extra baraqah in ze jannah.
     bunny
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #173 - February 10, 2013, 03:18 AM

    Hey brainwave. Let's ban medically unnecessary, non-consensual genitals. Solve all these problems at one go. bunny

     


    Looks like this organization beat you to it man. 

    Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

    This is a quote from their website:

      -  “May we live long and die out” 

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #174 - February 10, 2013, 03:20 AM

     Cheesy Well I don't think it's necessary to go quite that far. I'm sure humans will eventually go extinct involuntarily anyway.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #175 - February 10, 2013, 03:27 AM

    lol yeah I think those people are a little over the top.

    I definitely agree we should do something to stop people from having so many children.  Overpopulation leads to increased environmental pollution and poverty.

    But it is not a good idea for us to go completely extinct either since as Carl Sagan puts it

        " We are a way for the universe to know itself"

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #176 - February 10, 2013, 03:49 AM

    Uh.. oh k..
    it must be true if prophat Carl Sagan said soo, where is the full suratul mustaqeem on it, for verification purposes only.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #177 - February 14, 2013, 09:00 AM

    Personally I'd rather have female and male circumcision both under the same legal standing (which I would prefer to be not allowed). Same goes for any other permanent body alterations on babies that aren't needed for medical reasons or because of some crazy defect or what not.

    People always love to throw around stuff like "ZOMG BUT FEMALE CIRCUMSCIOSON DAY TAKE THE VAGINA ADN RIP HALF THE THING OFF". You can fuck up a male circumcision just as bad if you'd like. I'm sure some cultures would do things differently from just removing foreskin if it was legal.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #178 - February 16, 2013, 04:57 AM

    Circumcision is a crude and hazardous rite of passage, a traditions laced with religious notions, a remnant of human faith of the unknown regarding sex and sexual diseases while disregarding the real problems and its contemporary solutions. In contrast, If means is an end, we would see lobotomy in everyday prescriptions for insanity.

    The nature of coercive parents who condone genitals mutilation and the facts that circumcision is irreversible doesn't spoke well for me. I'm against child genitals mutilation and coerced religious practices. End off.
  • Medically unnecessary, non-consensual circumcisions should be banned.
     Reply #179 - February 16, 2013, 12:09 PM

    I voted yes. Circumscision can go wrong, why take the risk if it's unnecessary?

    I got circumsized after converting as an adult and it is one of the biggest regrets of my life. My poor dick is ugly now, and I have numbness down the left side of my penis (doc reckons it's probably nerve damage).
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