A History of Disbelief.

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- Omaar Khayaam
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A History of Disbelief.
OP - November 14, 2009, 10:00 AM

Did any of you guys watch this series? The rest is on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYelCWkfEgY
- osmanthus
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #1 - November 14, 2009, 02:58 PM

Just watched the whole lot. Thanks for the tip off. It was a very interesting series.

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- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #2 - November 14, 2009, 03:25 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on November 14, 2009, 02:58 PM
Just watched the whole lot. Thanks for the tip off. It was a very interesting series.

I enjoyed the series as well. What's interesting is the way the church was opposed to the new ideas that science introduced in the west. Comparatively this was unheard on in the islamic world and everyone knows about muslim Spain etc. What I'd be interested in though, is if things like heresy hunts and burning people alive ever took place in islamic civilization. As far as I know, other than the attitude towards the dhimmis, there wasn't anything similar to what happened in the west.
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #3 - November 15, 2009, 01:46 AM

Well there is the Bukhari hadith about not burning people because that is Allah's punishment. So I wouldn't expect burnings in the Islamic world. Beheadings or stonings would be more likely. There were examples of those, including a famous massacre of Christians in Andalusia. I'm sure I remember examples of heretics from Islamic backgrounds being killed at various times too in other places.

Other points to bear in mind are that during the Andalusian caliphate there were no scientific discoveries being made that threatened the basis of Islam. Consequently there was no reason for religious authorities to react to science. Contrast that with Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo and later Darwin. There is still resistance in the Islamic world to Darwin's theories.

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- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #4 - November 15, 2009, 09:40 AM

I'd like to read something objective about the islamic civilization. Particularly what went on in Muslim Spain. There is then the convenient issue of the mainstream counting the heretics amongst those from the "civilization" when it comes to trying to bolster the enlightened nature of Andalusia. What they keep forgetting is that someone like Al-Razi the physician was very much against miracles and prophecy. So were many others.

I didn't know about the maasacre of the Christians in Andalusia. Do you have a reference for it that I can look up?
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #5 - November 15, 2009, 11:04 AM

Will have to look it up myself but the story is that Christians were of course dhimmi, even in Andalusia, and so there were restrictions on what they could and couldn't do. I can't remember the details exactly but some nutty preacher convinced a bunch of them to stage a protest action of some sort. Since the particular thing they did carried the death penalty they all ended up getting the chop. It was over something fairly trivial, like refusing to wear the appropriate insignia or publicly denouncing Islam or whatever. It wasn't a pogrom or anything like that. All the murders were nice and legal.

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- Soren
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #6 - November 15, 2009, 12:02 PM

Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on November 15, 2009, 09:40 AM
I'd like to read something objective about the islamic civilization. Particularly what went on in Muslim Spain. There is then the convenient issue of the mainstream counting the heretics amongst those from the "civilization" when it comes to trying to bolster the enlightened nature of Andalusia. What they keep forgetting is that someone like Al-Razi the physician was very much against miracles and prophecy. So were many others.

I didn't know about the maasacre of the Christians in Andalusia. Do you have a reference for it that I can look up?

Many Christians in Spain was killed for insulting Islam. Many of these Christians, according to the historical sources, did it to be martyred

this blogger has listed some of the examples The Murders (Martyrs) of Cordoba ? Muslims Executing Converts to Christianity

Here is a more detailed survey on those who insulted Islam, Christian Martyrs in Muslim Spain: more on Iberia can be found here
- Omaar Khayaam
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #7 - November 15, 2009, 12:09 PM

We are always given an account which says that Jews, Christians and Muslims did coexist peacefully, whether that was in Andalusia or during the Ottoman empire. Of course those accounts come from Muslim sources. There probably are accounts from Jewish and Christian sources, which might claim otherwise. It's always a double edged sword with this type of thing.
- Soren
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Re: A History of Disbelief.
Reply #8 - November 15, 2009, 12:47 PM

Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on November 15, 2009, 12:09 PM
We are always given an account which says that Jews, Christians and Muslims did coexist peacefully, whether that was in Andalusia or during the Ottoman empire. Of course those accounts come from Muslim sources. There probably are accounts from Jewish and Christian sources, which might claim otherwise. It's always a double edged sword with this type of thing.

There aren't many sources for the period (ca. 700-1000). And definitely not Christian or Jewish sources.

But also worth a read if you want to know more about Muslim spain is Christianity and Islam in Spain (756-1031)
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